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19.05.2014, 17:19
| | A legal question on inheritance claim...
OK. Assume that we are in this condition:
A mother has three children A, B and C. Some years ago, she lent some money to A to buy an apartment. A paper was signed at that time by the mother and A to acknowledge the lend.
Now, the mother deceases, without leaving any wills.
Question: Do B and C have right to claim 2/3 of the money the mother lent to A?
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19.05.2014, 17:21
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim...
What does the paper say about repayment etc.?
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19.05.2014, 17:29
| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | What does the paper say about repayment etc.? | | | | | I do not know exactly, as it's the situation of one of my friends... Maybe I will ask her the details later...
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19.05.2014, 17:30
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim...
Presumably it would also depend on the legal jurisdiction - what country is the deceased mother's inheritance being treated in?
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19.05.2014, 17:33
| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | Presumably it would also depend on the legal jurisdiction - what country is the deceased mother's inheritance being treated in? | | | | | Everything is in Switzerland, and all persons involved are Swiss.
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19.05.2014, 17:58
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim...
An agreement of debt means the debt must be paid.
To the surviving siblings.
Which means they all inherit equally, except the debtor who pays over what they owe.
If the loan was an "advance on inheritance" it is subtracted from that person`s share of the final inheritance figure - pretty much the same result.
A person can make "gifts" without them affecting inheritance, but a loan/inheritance advance is different. One person cannot be enriched at the expense of others.
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19.05.2014, 18:03
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | An agreement of debt means the debt must be paid.
To the surviving siblings.
Which means they all inherit equally, except the debtor who pays over what they owe.
If the loan was an "advance on inheritance" it is subtracted from that person`s share of the final inheritance figure - pretty much the same result.
A person can make "gifts" without them affecting inheritance, but a loan/inheritance advance is different. One person cannot be enriched at the expense of others. | | | | | My in laws (German) had a similar situation.
Of four siblings, only one went to university and dad payed for it.
When he died, the other siblings insisted the cost of his education (OH's father) be considered an advance inheritance and he was hence payed out less than the others.
I'm not sure whether or not there was ever a written agreement.
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19.05.2014, 18:12
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | My in laws (German) had a similar situation.
Of four siblings, only one went to university and dad payed for it.
When he died, the other siblings insisted the cost of his education (OH's father) be considered an advance inheritance and he was hence payed out less than the others.
I'm not sure whether or not there was ever a written agreement. | | | | | That was the usual way (in them olden days here) where one child, usually the oldest son, got a university education.
A bit unfair to make him pay back out of his inheritance, but maybe he was happy to, seeing he had the better job? | 
19.05.2014, 18:16
| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim...
I just asked my friend. She said that the paper only acknowledges that A borrowed xxxxxx CHF from mom, but there is nothing about repayment plan. And because of this my friend thinks that it will be difficult to claim. She thinks that as mom did not request in the paper when A has to repay the money, A can repay it to mom in any indefinite time limit, which means that now A can also repay the part of B and C in any indefinite time limit.
I do not know though... But I assume that as mom is deceased, it should be different...
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19.05.2014, 18:21
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | I just asked my friend. She said that the paper only acknowledges that A borrowed xxxxxx CHF from mom, but there is nothing about repayment plan. And because of this my friend thinks that it will be difficult to claim. She thinks that as mom did not request in the paper when A has to repay the money, A can repay it to mom in any indefinite time limit, which means that now A can also repay the part of B and C in any indefinite time limit.
I do not know though... But I assume that as mom is deceased, it should be different... | | | | | Sounds like an outstanding debt to me, so the liability still exists to the late mother. If it should be valued at face value or with X years compound interest will be an interesting question unless it was stated as interest free.
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19.05.2014, 18:30
| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | Sounds like an outstanding debt to me, so the liability still exists to the late mother. If it should be valued at face value or with X years compound interest will be an interesting question unless it was stated as interest free. | | | | | I'm not in the family so I have no idea of what exactly appeared on the paper.
But I do know that when the mother died, she herself has almost zero inheritance to the children, which means that the debt cannot be deducted from the inheritance share from A, but rather has to be paid directly from A to B and C, which might make it more difficult.
Also, A and mother did not talk about this loan in the past so B and C did not know about this at all. It is only recently, after that the mother lost consciousness, that A told B about this load in the past. So I assume that A does not have too much motivation to pay back the debt (otherwise he could have put it on the table when mother was still conscious). Also, A only told B, but not C, so until now C does not know anything about this. And B (who is my friend) hesitates whether to tell this to C, or just let it go forever. My friend says that she does not want to start a conflict between the brothers and sisters. But I feel that's not fair to my friend... Well, it's not my problem anyway...
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19.05.2014, 18:44
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim...
So, if A had destroyed the signed paper and kept quiet no-one would have known about the debt?
Now that B knows, C will learn of it..... one day, for sure.
If A values money over their siblings, he/she can - as there is as you say not much inheritance to share anyway, just take it in stride and offer to pay when and if.
If they value their family, then owning up to the debt would be honourable, as he/she has been enriched, at their final expense. And then work out a way of paying them back 2/3 of the debt?
If there is an interest payable on loan amount, then that interest has to also be paid.
Owning up to the debt and making acceptable plans to repay it could prevent them having to sell the property that was bought with the money, to settle the inheritance problem. That could also happen!
If cash money is really a big problem to come by, perhaps B & C would accept being testated heirs to the bought property?
Just some ideas to play with.
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19.05.2014, 18:45
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim...
I would NOT tell C. It won't bring any happiness when A cannot repay anything.
Maybe B could inform the executor of the estate about the loan, then the executor has the problem.
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19.05.2014, 18:55
| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | So, if A had destroyed the signed paper and kept quiet no-one would have known about the debt? | | | | | Exactly.
Actually I do not understand A's action. If he wants to repay the debt, then why not put it on the table before? If he does not want, why not keep it secret forever but tells B (and only B?)?
I do not quite understand the mother either. Why she did not inform the other children at the time of the loan? Later she suffered from alzheimer so for sure she forgot about this completely.
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19.05.2014, 19:02
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | Exactly.
Actually I do not understand A's action. If he wants to repay the debt, then why not put it on the table before? If he does not want, why not keep it secret forever but tells B (and only B?)?
I do not quite understand the mother either. Why she did not inform the other children at the time of the loan? Later she suffered from alzheimer so for sure she forgot about this completely. | | | | |
Perhaps A is honest, it's rare & unusual especially in families .
The debt remains without a requirement to repay on any fixed date, nothing changed B & C will probably get nothing but they might get a surprise one day.
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19.05.2014, 19:07
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| | | Quote: | |  | | | Perhaps A is honest, it's rare & unusual especially in families .
The debt remains without a requirement to repay on any fixed date, nothing changed B & C will probably get nothing but they might get a surprise one day. | | | | | They will probably get nothing immediately, but might get their share when a sells the property, or dies. There are lots of cases of interest free hand me down debts of this style.
How they should be handled taxation wise is a different story | Quote: | |  | | | Exactly.
Actually I do not understand A's action. If he wants to repay the debt, then why not put it on the table before? If he does not want, why not keep it secret forever but tells B (and only B?)?
I do not quite understand the mother either. Why she did not inform the other children at the time of the loan? Later she suffered from alzheimer so for sure she forgot about this completely. | | | | | An interest free loan is a nice thing to have. Why repay if there is no pressing need? | Quote: | |  | | | I would NOT tell C. It won't bring any happiness when A cannot repay anything.
Maybe B could inform the executor of the estate about the loan, then the executor has the problem. | | | | | I disagree. If they hide this frm c now, and c discovers it later, there will be a lot of bad blood.
Honesty is always the best in the long term. | Quote: | |  | | | That was the usual way (in them olden days here) where one child, usually the oldest son, got a university education.
A bit unfair to make him pay back out of his inheritance, but maybe he was happy to, seeing he had the better job? | | | | | He was not at all happy about the arrangement. But he ended up accepting it to avoid becoming estranged from his brothers.
Last edited by 3Wishes; 18.07.2014 at 14:21.
Reason: merging successive posts
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19.05.2014, 19:33
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | They will probably get nothing immediately, but might get their share when a sells the property, or dies. There are lots of cases of interest free hand me down debts of this style.
How they should be handled taxation wise is a different story | | | | | Unlikely to be any tax liability.....other than wealth tax if any.
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19.05.2014, 19:37
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim... | Quote: | |  | | | And B (who is my friend) hesitates whether to tell this to C, or just let it go forever. My friend says that she does not want to start a conflict between the brothers and sisters. But I feel that's not fair to my friend... Well, it's not my problem anyway... | | | | | It is only money.
Family is more important.
(and if mother had "none" anyway, then there isn't really an issue- they haven't lost anything really)
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20.05.2014, 11:53
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim...
I talked about this here problem last night with some Swiss friends, and it seems this is a pretty common problem here.
The solution is that the person with the debt just signs an "acknowledgement of debt" to the other two.
So that some time in the future, should they somehow have the money to repay they then can settle, or if they die the other two have a claim on their estate.
Or they can agree to pay a certain small sum regularly over the years.
In that way everyone is happy.
They aso have the option of paying a nominal interest on the debt, like 1,5% or whatever, and the balance is claimable on their estate after death.
Simple hey?
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20.05.2014, 12:00
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| | Re: A legal question on inheritance claim...
What amount of money are we talking about? 10,000 for a deposit on the apartment or 1,000,000 to buy outright?
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