 | | | 
13.01.2023, 23:40
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 5,230
Groaned at 904 Times in 571 Posts
Thanked 5,143 Times in 2,735 Posts
| | Re: Where should a millionaire retire?
Please, there is NO Euthanasia allowed in Switzerland.
Last edited by JackieH; 14.01.2023 at 00:06.
| This user groans at JackieH for this post: | | 
14.01.2023, 10:32
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 19,082
Groaned at 845 Times in 659 Posts
Thanked 29,529 Times in 11,963 Posts
| | Re: Where should a millionaire retire? | Quote: | |  | | | Please, there is NO Euthanasia allowed in Switzerland. | | | | | Googling shows the correct term for what is allowed in Switzerland is "Voluntary euthanasia".
| This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 11:28
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 5,230
Groaned at 904 Times in 571 Posts
Thanked 5,143 Times in 2,735 Posts
| | Re: Where should a millionaire retire?
It is assisted dying- as you have to perform the act yourself- open the valve or drink the potion yourself.
Have opened a new thread on the subject, so as not to clutter this one. We are members of EXIT, and we have had long discussions with them to try and get them to accept an exception to the 'resident in Switzerland, with official papers registered here'. We asked them if an exception could be made for long-term members who go and live in another country in old age (75+) to be near children- but keeping a small property in their name, either owned or rented, in Switzerland in a region where they are known to authorities and friends- so they could come back for assisted dying (as not allowed in the UK, for instance, where we would return). The answer was a clear NO, either you are resident in Switzerland, or you are not. Which means, for us, that staying in Switzerland would give us that choice, should we ever be struck by some awful disease and the fight is over.
Last edited by JackieH; 14.01.2023 at 11:42.
| 
14.01.2023, 11:33
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 5,230
Groaned at 904 Times in 571 Posts
Thanked 5,143 Times in 2,735 Posts
| | Assisted dying in Switzerland
Much better for this discussion to take place here.
What are your thoughts? Have you joined Exit, or any other organisation?
And mainly, do you realise that in the case of a stroke that prevents you from communication, or Alzheimers or Dementia- that choice we have in CH will be taken away from you, whatever your advanced directives say.
Last edited by JackieH; 14.01.2023 at 11:46.
| 
14.01.2023, 11:57
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: https://youtu.be/JAJbqL2IMm8
Posts: 3,972
Groaned at 109 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 4,161 Times in 2,182 Posts
| | Re: Assisted dying in Switzerland
If I should get dementia than I will not even find the Exit.
| The following 2 users would like to thank robBob for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 12:04
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 5,230
Groaned at 904 Times in 571 Posts
Thanked 5,143 Times in 2,735 Posts
| | Re: Assisted dying in Switzerland
A very good point. But not funny, if you truly think about it.
I have watched too many in the last 10 years- with that awful in-between phase, when they know things are not right, but are fully and dreadfully aware. In the early stages, you can still make a decision, but you have to be quick, far too quick, in order not to be too late. Because when you've gone over that threshold- the choice has gone. And it can last for years, many years- of losing ones dignity, bit by bit- until you don't care, and then what is the bleeding point of costing huge amounts of money, taking valuable space and valuable staff, that could be so much better employed elsewhere.
We have a friend whom we heard say so many times- if anything like that happens, I'll get out fast! Massive stroke, not found for 3 days- unable to speak or communicate in any way. Very fit and strong physically, and he is now stuck in that semi vegetative state, and nothing can be done apart from DNR. Tragic.
| 
14.01.2023, 12:16
|  | Moderately Dutch | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,222
Groaned at 422 Times in 358 Posts
Thanked 18,024 Times in 8,218 Posts
| | Re: Assisted dying in Switzerland
Get a power of attorney for when you no longer can decide yourself. We have both one giving the other the poa to decide. When we both can‘t we have another person who is then entitled to decide.
| The following 2 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 12:27
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Zurich City
Posts: 7,582
Groaned at 586 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 9,341 Times in 4,332 Posts
| | Re: Assisted dying in Switzerland
I’m not really sure what there is to discuss. Forms of voluntary euthanasia (when euthanasia is conducted with consent) is already legal in Australia, Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Spain, Switzerland, and New Zealand. It is also legal in the U.S. states of Oregon, Washington D.C., Hawaii, Washington, Maine, Colorado, New Jersey, California, and Vermont.
The difference in Switzerland is perhaps only that people can resort to assisted suicide by paying EUR10000, even when the patient is depressed.
| The following 4 users would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 14:27
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 19,082
Groaned at 845 Times in 659 Posts
Thanked 29,529 Times in 11,963 Posts
| | Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?
From the other thread: | Quote: | |  | | | We are members of EXIT, and we have had long discussions with them to try and get them to accept an exception to the 'resident in Switzerland, with official papers registered here'. We asked them if an exception could be made for long-term members who go and live in another country in old age (75+) to be near children- but keeping a small property in their name, either owned or rented, in Switzerland in a region where they are known to authorities and friends- so they could come back for assisted dying (as not allowed in the UK, for instance, where we would return). The answer was a clear NO, either you are resident in Switzerland, or you are not. Which means, for us, that staying in Switzerland would give us that choice, should we ever be struck by some awful disease and the fight is over. | | | | | There's a choice irrespective of what the laws of a country are - to be blunt, there are plenty of quick, easy ways to commit suicide without help from others (obviously not if you end up totally incapacitated), which will not endanger others or be any cost to them.
To be frank, I think you're making a lot of fuss about nothing.
| This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 15:29
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,953
Groaned at 2,968 Times in 2,056 Posts
Thanked 41,320 Times in 19,541 Posts
| | Re: EXIT would you consider being a member? | Quote: | |  | | | to be blunt, there are plenty of quick, easy ways to commit suicide without help from others (obviously not if you end up totally incapacitated), which will not endanger others or be any cost to them. | | | | | Helium sounds pretty good.
Tom
| 
14.01.2023, 15:39
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Nyon
Posts: 8,793
Groaned at 559 Times in 415 Posts
Thanked 12,288 Times in 5,731 Posts
| | Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?
Where can you buy nitrogen gas? In personal sized containers.
| 
14.01.2023, 15:44
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ZH
Posts: 9,479
Groaned at 123 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 14,624 Times in 5,967 Posts
| | Re: Assisted dying in Switzerland | Quote: | |  | | | Get a power of attorney for when you no longer can decide yourself. We have both one giving the other the poa to decide. When we both can‘t we have another person who is then entitled to decide. | | | | | Yes, this. Although one really hast to have a lot of trust in oneself and each other, to believe that one would be able to decide, when the time comes.
Exit has a very good system in place for just this situation, to avoid putting any stress on the relatives, or avoid the risk that they might decide in a different direction from what the person would have wanted. At Exit, members can register their Living Will, i.e. a signed document declaring what one wants done, should one ever not be able to decide. For example, one can state that if one is no longer able to breathe unaided, any machines should either not be hooked up in the first place or must be switched off, or that if one is no longer, physically or mentally, able to feed oneself, then the administration of food and water must be stopped altogether and medication increased to help one endure or not notice the hunger and thirst, until death arrives. That's obviously not as swift as drinking the potion, but enables a significant shortening of the agony.
Such a Living Will from Exit enjoys much more respect, nowadays, in hospitals, than 10 or 20 years ago.
| The following 3 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 15:56
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ZH
Posts: 9,479
Groaned at 123 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 14,624 Times in 5,967 Posts
| | Re: Where should a millionaire retire? | Quote: | |  | | | We are members of EXIT, and we have had long discussions with them to try and get them to accept an exception to the 'resident in Switzerland, with official papers registered here'. We asked them if an exception could be made for long-term members who go and live in another country in old age (75+) to be near children- but keeping a small property in their name, either owned or rented, in Switzerland in a region where they are known to authorities and friends- so they could come back for assisted dying (as not allowed in the UK, for instance, where we would return). The answer was a clear NO, either you are resident in Switzerland, or you are not. Which means, for us, that staying in Switzerland would give us that choice, should we ever be struck by some awful disease and the fight is over. | | | | | I wonder whether this is perhaps one of those many Swiss matters that is regulated differently, from canton to canton. About 4 or 5 years ago friends asked this specific question in Zurich, as they were contemplating possibly leaving Switzerland. They were told that while the non-Swiss could not remain a member upon emigration, the Swiss family member could, and that Exit services were available to members.
And on the German-language webpages of Exit, it states (my underlining and deepl's translation): Voraussetzungen
Sie können nur dann EXIT-Mitglied werden, wenn mindestens eine der folgenden Bedingungen zutrifft (falls beides zutrifft, bitte beides anwählen):
Ich besitze die schweizer Staatsangehörigkeit. und / oder
Ich habe meinen Hauptwohnsitz in der Schweiz Requirements
You can only become an EXIT member if at least one of the following conditions applies (if both apply, please select both):
I have Swiss citizenship and / or
I have my main residence in Switzerland. | This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 16:18
|  | Moderately Amused | | Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,804
Groaned at 98 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 20,893 Times in 9,204 Posts
| | Re: Assisted dying in Switzerland | Quote: | |  | | | Yes, this. Although one really hast to have a lot of trust in oneself and each other, to believe that one would be able to decide, when the time comes.
Exit has a very good system in place for just this situation, to avoid putting any stress on the relatives, or avoid the risk that they might decide in a different direction from what the person would have wanted. At Exit, members can register their Living Will, i.e. a signed document declaring what one wants done, should one ever not be able to decide. For example, one can state that if one is no longer able to breathe unaided, any machines should either not be hooked up in the first place or must be switched off, or that if one is no longer, physically or mentally, able to feed oneself, then the administration of food and water must be stopped altogether and medication increased to help one endure or not notice the hunger and thirst, until death arrives. That's obviously not as swift as drinking the potion, but enables a significant shortening of the agony.
Such a Living Will from Exit enjoys much more respect, nowadays, in hospitals, than 10 or 20 years ago. | | | | | Do you know whether other countries - such as UK - have similar living will laws or whatever you want to call it? If so, then this might help JackieH feel more comfortable about making a choice of where to live and eventually, die.
As you say, such a document doesn't mean death is as swift as drinking a potion. However, the person's wishes would still be fulfilled in that they wouldn't be kept alive by extraordinary measures.
| 
14.01.2023, 16:32
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Zurich City
Posts: 7,582
Groaned at 586 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 9,341 Times in 4,332 Posts
| | Re: Assisted dying in Switzerland | Quote: | |  | | | Exit has a very good system in place for just this situation, to avoid putting any stress on the relatives, or avoid the risk that they might decide in a different direction from what the person would have wanted. At Exit, members can register their Living Will, i.e. a signed document declaring what one wants done, should one ever not be able to decide. For example, one can state that if one is no longer able to breathe unaided, any machines should either not be hooked up in the first place or must be switched off, or that if one is no longer, physically or mentally, able to feed oneself, then the administration of food and water must be stopped altogether and medication increased to help one endure or not notice the hunger and thirst, until death arrives. That's obviously not as swift as drinking the potion, but enables a significant shortening of the agony.
Such a Living Will from Exit enjoys much more respect, nowadays, in hospitals, than 10 or 20 years ago. | | | | | Just to ensure there is no confusion, a living will or Advanced Directive is a standard document and is not related to Exit. Here a link in English, with templates: https://www.ch.ch/en/health/living-w...cess-and-forms
I have my Advanced Directive copies placed with my next of kin and my GP.
| The following 6 users would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 17:00
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,953
Groaned at 2,968 Times in 2,056 Posts
Thanked 41,320 Times in 19,541 Posts
| | Re: EXIT would you consider being a member? | Quote: | |  | | | Where can you buy nitrogen gas? In personal sized containers. | | | | | Any place that sells welding supplies. Likewise for helium, etc.
Tom
| 
14.01.2023, 17:20
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Zürich
Posts: 9,168
Groaned at 400 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 14,023 Times in 4,810 Posts
| | Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?
I had a dear friend who took her own life through EXIT.
She was 51 and hopelessly ill with cancer just about everywhere. After numerous and painful chemo sessions and with a young family the decision was taken lightly.
She was interviewed by an independent doctor and psychiatrist. No attempt will be made if there is any chance of mental illness or dementia.
A police officer was present when the day came. The post-mortem revealed that she would not have lived many more days...
She joined EXIT some 6 months earlier when it was already clearly hopeless.
| The following 5 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 17:58
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 5,230
Groaned at 904 Times in 571 Posts
Thanked 5,143 Times in 2,735 Posts
| | Re: Where should a millionaire retire? | Quote: | |  | | | I wonder whether this is perhaps one of those many Swiss matters that is regulated differently, from canton to canton. About 4 or 5 years ago friends asked this specific question in Zurich, as they were contemplating possibly leaving Switzerland. They were told that while the non-Swiss could not remain a member upon emigration, the Swiss family member could, and that Exit services were available to members.
And on the German-language webpages of Exit, it states (my underlining and deepl's translation): Voraussetzungen
Sie können nur dann EXIT-Mitglied werden, wenn mindestens eine der folgenden Bedingungen zutrifft (falls beides zutrifft, bitte beides anwählen):
Ich besitze die schweizer Staatsangehörigkeit. und / oder
Ich habe meinen Hauptwohnsitz in der Schweiz Requirements
You can only become an EXIT member if at least one of the following conditions applies (if both apply, please select both):
I have Swiss citizenship and / or
I have my main residence in Switzerland. | | | | | Yes, you are right, and I did not realise this. Exit Swiss Romande requires that you have Swiss residency, registration and all official papers here.
Last edited by JackieH; 14.01.2023 at 18:08.
| This user would like to thank JackieH for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 18:04
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 5,230
Groaned at 904 Times in 571 Posts
Thanked 5,143 Times in 2,735 Posts
| | Re: EXIT would you consider being a member? | Quote: | |  | | | From the other thread:
There's a choice irrespective of what the laws of a country are - to be blunt, there are plenty of quick, easy ways to commit suicide without help from others (obviously not if you end up totally incapacitated), which will not endanger others or be any cost to them.
To be frank, I think you're making a lot of fuss about nothing. | | | | | Your prerogative. I have known too many people who have committed suicide and made a real mess of it. Do you know what it is like for children to find their parent hanging from the rafters, with a bullet in the head, or having jumped from 4th floor, or lying in vomit after a bottle of whisky and 10+ paracetamol, or smashed up by oncoming high speed train (I have friends who have all lived through such experiences).
Much better for children to be told of the decision, the date, and given the choice to be there or not- with favourite music, in favourite place- and just go to sleep peacefully and not wake up. Knowing it is guaranteed failsafe and painless. And for it to be all legal and above board, with everything in place for post death.
Last edited by JackieH; 14.01.2023 at 18:37.
| This user would like to thank JackieH for this useful post: | | 
14.01.2023, 18:08
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 5,230
Groaned at 904 Times in 571 Posts
Thanked 5,143 Times in 2,735 Posts
| | Re: Assisted dying in Switzerland | Quote: | |  | | | Get a power of attorney for when you no longer can decide yourself. We have both one giving the other the poa to decide. When we both can‘t we have another person who is then entitled to decide. | | | | | Where is this legal?
Certainly not in Switzerland. Once you are no longer to activate the valve, or hold the potion and drink it yourself, and no longer able to clearly state that this is what you want, and 100% without coercion, and without hesitation, fully aware this is final- then no power of attorney or directives can allow assisted dying. It can mean DNR, no active treatment, feeding, antibiotics, insulin, etc, etc, but not the administration of a 'potion' that would activate your death.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:31. | |