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Old 25.03.2008, 19:18
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Boy and Girl Scouts aka Pfadi Information

My boys (will be 10 and 6 in summer) are slightly interested in joining the local scouts. Whilst I'm all for it, Mr Crumbs has his doubts (which go back to his own childhood experiences...)

Does anyone have up-to-date experience with the scouts (Pfadi)? particularly in Zurich, and if you know what the Züriberg scouts get up to, even better.

- what do the boys get up to?
- what is expected from the parents? (transport, ironing uniforms etc.?)
- any "bad" experiences?
- does anyone have first-hand experience with the sea-scouts (Seepfadi) on lake Zurich?

Thank you for your comments.... (calling Nathu?)
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Old 26.03.2008, 19:08
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

Marked for tomorrow...
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Old 26.03.2008, 19:25
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

My kids (10 and 12) are in Pfadi in Kanton Schwyz. They enjoy Pfadi very much.

Pfadi is lead by older teenagers. It's a learning experience for both the young Pfädlers and the leaders. Sometimes it's hard to sit by and watch because things aren't always well organised. I've called the leader twice to discuss two various issues. Both issues were dealt with accordingly.

Our Pfadi is not lead professionally, but the leaders do their best considering their age and experience. My kids are at Pfadi 1 - 2 Saturday afternoons a month. I'd advise letting your kids do a trial afternoon with the pfadi group and then taking it from there.
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Old 26.03.2008, 19:50
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

I have my 11 year old girl and my 9 year old boy (10 in July) in Pfadi. They have really enjoyed their time there. My daughter's group meets every Saturday for 3 hours (generally 2-5pm) and they do all kinds of things. According to the weather they can spend an afternoon in the woods, make a fire and make a meal or dessert and play games...or they can all go swimming. They really have a variety of the things they do. Through out the year they have some sleep-away camps on holiday weekends (My daughter's next one is on May 10-12) and just about a month ago they went sleeding to Brunwald for a day. SHE HAD A BLAST!!!

My son also likes his group. They also do a lot of outdoor activities, (which is a plus with parents who are NOT that outdorsie), sleep away camp and swimming and once they went to the movies. They also do a lot in the woods and my son's group was building a little cabin in the forest and a few times they had to take tools to help with the building! They meet every Saturday (except on holidays) from 2 to 5:30

I just LOVE their leaders! They are young teenagers that love Pfadi!

Care for the uniforms? Nah...it doesn't require much... I just do wash and wear and if the wrinkles are too bad then I iron, but becasue most of the time they end up full of mud, it is not really worth making them look "too" nice. Parent participation at my kids' groups is not really required. I carpool with other parents in my village for pick up and drop off, so it works great for us. They have a meeting place and a pick up place (many times is by the woods or at our closest train station) They do have a "Gala" uniform which is required for certain events, like fundraising (parents are asked to please bing a cake so they can sell at the towns market to have funds for the next camping trip) So yes, I do iron the shirt, and the pants are blue corduroys.

The only bad experience my son had last year is when he went away for one of those holiday weekend camps, he was in some fields and he reacted to something and had an allergic reaction. We had to go pick him up because he was upset and his leader thought he was not well. Good call, my DH drove an hour to pick him up and after some medication he was all fine. Not a bad "Pfadi" experience, but just a bad experience for my son being away. Pfadi leader did the right thing.

My kids' Pfadi groups are really well organized and my youngest (almsot 6) can't wait to go. I will wait though...as I think he is too young. I think the minimum age is 8 anyway...Maybe it depends on the group?

NO experience with the sea-scouts at all.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!
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Old 27.03.2008, 19:33
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

Every scouting club has at least one group for 1. Stufe children (ca. 7-10 years old) and one for 2. Stufe (ca. 11-15 yo). In the German speaking part of the country, kids in the first stufe are called Wölfe/wolves (sometimes refers only to boys) and Bienli/bees (always referring to girls only). Kids in the 2. Stufe are called Pfadi, which can also refer to the entire Abteilung or the Scouting movement. It is up to the Abteilung if and in which Stufe they want the genders separated, but the vast majority of clubs is mixed.

What apparently is a bit special in Switzerland is that the leaders are a bit younger. Groups can be led by 15 years old and it is not uncommon that 19-20 years old organise camps. Leaders in 0. Stufe (5-6 yo) and disability groups tend to be older than average, so do leaders of 3. Stufe (16/17 yo) and 4. Stufe (18+), but not every club has these.

This year is a special one for scouting in Switzerland. There will be a national Jamboree that takes place only once every fourteen years.


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- what do the boys get up to?
The program depends on the Stufe and the guides' style/club culture. Common denominators are the scout techniques ("Pfaditechnik": camp building, first aid, tracking, orientation with card and compass etc.), sport activities (with an accent on hiking but including faster activities and games) and the will to work together as a group.

Younger children also do handicrafts and often have their activities framed by a story that often involves guides in disguise. Activities typical for 2. Stufe and later are scouting games at night and the more technical stuff.

The Saturday afternoon routine aside there are also special activities/excursions. I was a leader in 2. Stufe and have p.e. chosen these: indoor climbing, outdoor pool visits, skating rink visits, excursion to a nuclear and a hydroelectric power plant, sledge days... And then there are the camps. The allow longer and additional activities like bicycle tours, two day hikes, making your own food etc.


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- what is expected from the parents? (transport, ironing uniforms etc.?)
The days where scouts imitated the military are long gone... also they don't have a religious orientation. There's no need to iron the uniform, cleaning suffices (On a sidenote, older Swiss scouts who participate in international camps often buy a second uniform for these occasions because the individualisation of uniforms isn't the norm abroad).

It is expected that parents organise appropriate equipment for scouting: hiking boots, clothing, flashlight... look here to get an idea.

It is highly appreciated if parents help packing the rucksack and don't send the kids to camps with a suitcase (well, it has happened to me ).

That's the minimum. The council of the clubs often consists of parents, and sometimes their help as drivers in transports for camps is welcome too, but there's no obligation there at all.


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- any "bad" experiences?
In my experience kids leave the scouts around 12 when they want to focus on one hobby and decide that scouting isn't it. And around 15 when they otherwise would take over a job with responsability.

Where kids leave soon after joining, there was often a disagreement between parents and leaders. If the kids themselves want to leave they're often bored because the guides didn't organise a good program, or, less often, the group dynamics were bad.

In all my scouting years I've had to bring a few scouts to the doctor (Swiss army knife injury and the like... better safe than sorry. I never had somebody who suffered an allergic reaction fortunately.) But on the other hand, other sport activities bring similar kinds of risks, except maybe a chess club...


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- does anyone have first-hand experience with the sea-scouts (Seepfadi) on lake Zurich?
I haven't had contact with them for some years but the last time I encountered them I've had a good impression. They're standard scouts except that the 2. Stufe groups and older spend the summer afternoons on the lake.

I don't think I've dealt with the scouts from Zürichberg. What's the name of their club?
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Old 27.03.2008, 19:58
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

Many thanks, Nathu. That answers pretty much all of my questions. Thanks for the links too.
And thanks to the rest with your detailed answers (and Sandgrounder who pm'd me).
It sounds like a good thing to me.

There's an open orientation day this Saturday (Pfadi Züriberg) in the woods. A treasure hunt is planned, so it sounds like great fun. Both boys want to go and have a look, anyway.

So, it seems that parents are not required to participate much. I can do cakes and iron a shirt if really necessary

I only have two concerns now. The first is that my younger son may still be too young (he'll be 6 in summer). I'll talk to whoever's in charge on Saturday to get a better picture.

The other issue is that Saturdays will be blocked if the boys do decide to join. Although I do think if you want to pursue an activity you should do it on a regular basis, there will be times when we as a family will want to do other things. So, is it frowned upon if the boys don't turn up every single Saturday?
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Old 27.03.2008, 22:44
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

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I only have two concerns now. The first is that my younger son may still be too young (he'll be 6 in summer). I'll talk to whoever's in charge on Saturday to get a better picture.
There is a project in the national association to change the age group and profile recommendations. In the past the majority of clubs officially accepted 7 years old members with individual exceptions. But there were and are efforts to open the movement for younger children and to my knowledge the new profiles will likely be 5-7 and 8-10 years. The trend to accept younger children is widespread but not all clubs will found a separate 0. Stufe. You'll have to ask the local Pfadi about this.


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The other issue is that Saturdays will be blocked if the boys do decide to join. Although I do think if you want to pursue an activity you should do it on a regular basis, there will be times when we as a family will want to do other things. So, is it frowned upon if the boys don't turn up every single Saturday?
To be honest, if a kid comes less than every second time it can be annoying if you think of the team building I mentioned in the other post, although nobody will openly say this (and inactive members still pay the membership fee at least ).

If a child can't often visit the Saturday afternoon activities, the parents can try to send it frequently to the camps to compensate this. Also keep in mind that there usually are no activities on Saturday at the beginning and during school holidays, so there are some Saturdays left without plans.
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Old 27.03.2008, 23:09
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

Thanks for all that info and the time you put into answering in such detail.
There's something on the flyer about a 4-7 year group called "Fünklis", so I expect that is what you are talking about.
Will let you know how it goes on Saturday...
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Old 27.03.2008, 23:10
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

To be fair I thought I should also mention the "competition" of the scouting movement here.
  • Jubla (Jungwacht-Blauring) clubs have a catholic background and are supported by local churches. The group leaders are fairly independent though. Gender separated groups are the norm, to my knowledge.
  • Jungschar organisations like CEVI (YMCA) are affiliated with protestant and free churches. Although they too welcome members of all religions, it is my understanding that on average they take their christian roots more seriously than Jubla.
  • Oh and here's the link to the national pfadi association. The cantonal organisations are listed here, each of them usually has a link list with scouting groups on its own website.
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Old 27.03.2008, 23:21
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

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Thanks for all that info and the time you put into answering in such detail.
There's something on the flyer about a 4-7 year group called "Fünklis", so I expect that is what you are talking about.
You're welcome... well I'm enthusiastic about scouting, it was my favorite hobby for many years and I'm still involved, but I try to write my posts unbiased!

Some call it Fünklistufe and others 0. Stufe, there's no official name yet but this is what I wrote about. My club doesn't have one and accepts members starting at 6 years, our neighboring club does. The main differences to their 1. Stufe is that it is led by their most experienced scouts and that they only meet every other week.


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Will let you know how it goes on Saturday...
I'm looking forward to your post!

Last edited by Nathu; 27.03.2008 at 23:30. Reason: hobby... favorite hobby
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Old 27.03.2008, 23:24
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

Well, we're atheists (or heathens?), so the local Pfadi will be fine for us
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Old 28.03.2008, 14:04
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

I never even considered the Swiss scouts for our girl. I would like her to go to Brownies/Guides, but there doesn't seem to be a troupe in Switzerland unfortunately.
Maybe she could join the Swiss lot, it would certainly improve her german language skills.
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Old 28.03.2008, 14:29
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

If I understood the flyer correctly, the Brownies are equivalent to the "Bienli" and they go to the Pfadi/Scouts with the "Wölfli", and the Guides would then be the "Maitli-Pfadi" as opposed to the "Buebe-Pfadi" (boy scouts).

I don't know if the groups are gender-separated in the clubs, but I'm sure Nathu will be along soon to elaborate


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I never even considered the Swiss scouts for our girl. I would like her to go to Brownies/Guides, but there doesn't seem to be a troupe in Switzerland unfortunately.
Maybe she could join the Swiss lot, it would certainly improve her german language skills.
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Old 28.03.2008, 14:55
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

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If I understood the flyer correctly, the Brownies are equivalent to the "Bienli" and they go to the Pfadi/Scouts with the "Wölfli", and the Guides would then be the "Maitli-Pfadi" as opposed to the "Buebe-Pfadi" (boy scouts).
That's correct.


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I don't know if the groups are gender-separated in the clubs, but I'm sure Nathu will be along soon to elaborate
In the majority of clubs the groups are mixed, but there are exceptions.
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Old 30.03.2008, 17:25
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

The day-out with the Züriberg Scouts was a total success

The "Wöflis" (= Cubs) now have two new recruits, just waiting for the paperwork and saving up for turquoise shirts, scarves, toggles and other bits and pieces - though they said there's no hurry to appear "fully equipped".

The Pfadi Züriberg meets every Saturday at 2pm - 5pm at the top/end station of the Dolder Bahn (which you can take from Tram stop Römerhof - 15,8,3). The trip on the funicular alone is always a treat for my kids.

They have 3 age groups: 4-7 years "Fünklis" (meet every other Saturday), 7-11 years "Wölfli" and "Bienli" and 11-15 years "Meitli- und Buebe Pfadis".

Our boys had a great time and are eager to go again next week. They hunted for treasure, played all sorts of games, cooked sausages and marshmallows over a fire, which the young "Fünklis" had lit (The Fünklis led by an experienced adult, by the way, so no worries there).

The teenage leaders gave me a good impression and all seem to be very enthusiastic. I also met another english-speaking Mum, who has boys there and, not surprisingly, some other boys from our neighbourhood who we already know.
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Old 30.03.2008, 21:50
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Re: Boy Scouts, Pfadi experiences in Zurich?

Glad to read that everything went well! Just ask, if you have further questions...
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Old 09.06.2008, 22:19
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Brownies/Girl Scouts in Lucerne area

Hello, Im new to the EF, and wondered if anyone knew about girl scouts/brownie groups in the Lucerne/Zug area? I have a girl who is 6 and thought it would be a fun/good thing to do. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks
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Old 09.06.2008, 22:23
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Re: Brownies/Girl Scouts in Lucerne area

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Hello, Im new to the EF, and wondered if anyone knew about girl scouts/brownie groups in the Lucerne/Zug area? I have a girl who is 6 and thought it would be a fun/good thing to do. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks
You may not be aware but it's mixed Scouting (boys and girls) in Europe but don't let that put you off.
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Old 09.06.2008, 22:30
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Re: Brownies/Girl Scouts in Lucerne area

so does anyone know about mixed scouting in the lucerne area?? thanks
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Old 09.06.2008, 22:47
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Re: Brownies/Girl Scouts in Lucerne area

I don't know if there is a group in the Lucerne area... please check out http://www.girlscouts.org/who_we_are/global/wagggs/ .

There used to be a very active group in Basel at the International School that I used to take my daughter to (1 hour drive) once a month or so (I was also an assistant leader). My daughter was a fourth generation Scout which was really neat for her (she asked her great grandmother what did they do "we learned how to make beds and sew, Sweety").

We are very lucky in Switzerland to have one of the four International Scouting Centers in the world in Adelboden (Kandersteg).

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