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  #201  
Old 09.10.2014, 11:46
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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I'm no fan of US healthcare, but I also know that there are more doctors than not who don't drive fancy cars, and don't sit around counting stacks of money.

Well, I'm glad you have an audience, however small. I'm going to wash my hands and go back to my peaceful asylum. How does making an example of someone provide any relief for ebola?

Seriously - ebola is a serious issue. But sniping and pounding chests isn't going to help much.
It doesn't, then again implying that someone was too lazy to find a real job when they carried out a selfless and valued occupation is a step to far to me so the gloves were off.

It's actually a waste of my time and effort dealing with snipping as I studied Chemistry with Biochemistry at University so it's an interesting subject to me.
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  #202  
Old 09.10.2014, 11:47
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Fear of the unknown causes people to take extreme measure that can be interpreted as cruel.

Ebola is to be taken seriously, is highly contagious and until a reliable cure and/or vaccine is available, I feel killing a family dog is the least of our worries.
Agreed. However, if they truly believe that there was the remote possibility that the dog might have been a carrier of the virus, wouldn't it be important to quarantine the dog to find out if it actually was? What about all the neighborhood dogs that sniffed his butt on his walk before she realized that she was really sick? Perhaps a neighborhood cull of all the animals might be in order. Additionally, Madrileños aren't exactly renowned for picking up their dog's shit. Just another example of the short-shortsightedness of Spain's failed governance.
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  #203  
Old 09.10.2014, 11:54
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

So why does it take so long to find test? Are there no reliable tests?

Seems like they have to quarantine patients 21 days to find out for sure. This waiting period is problematic.

But better a dead dog or struggling airline industry than tens of millions of people bleeding to death through their eyes, ears or what have you.
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  #204  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:01
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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So why does it take so long to find test? Are there no reliable tests?

Seems like they have to quarantine patients 21 days to find out for sure. This waiting period is problematic.
http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/viral-test

Basic overview, you either need enough of the virus to find it (Patient Dead)

Replicate the virus = (Patient dies whilst you grow it in a culture to sufficient levels to see it)

Antigen test (the body is fighting Ebola and producing Antigens) = Again patient is dead before the body produces enough Ebola antigens in 9/10 cases. This is why people die from Ebola the body cannot react quickly enough. Zmapp boosts the antigen levels and allows the body to get itself into order and fight back.

Viral DNA/RNA sampling via sequencing. This is only available in "first world" countries.

3 key antigens are part of the Zmapp "cure."

More detail here all slow tests:-

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/diagnosis/

Which means they look for secondary symptoms such as temperature of patient etc.

PCR (DNA/RNA) is actually quite fast if you know what you are doing. Problem is bring the equipment to Africa to do this.
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  #205  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:18
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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It doesn't, then again implying that someone was too lazy to find a real job when they carried out a selfless and valued occupation is a step to far to me so the gloves were off.

It's actually a waste of my time and effort dealing with snipping as I studied Chemistry with Biochemistry at University so it's an interesting subject to me.
Really. I also studied chemistry and biology as an undergraduate. And statistics as a graduate student. I usually don't snipe, but you just pissed me off.

I have to look again, but is there evidence of contagion in dogs? I know they can carry antibodies.
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  #206  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:20
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/viral-test

Basic overview, you either need enough of the virus to find it (Patient Dead)

Replicate the virus = (Patient dies whilst you grow it in a culture to sufficient levels to see it)

Antigen test (the body is fighting Ebola and producing Antigens) = Again patient is dead before the body produces enough Ebola antigens in 9/10 cases. This is why people die from Ebola the body cannot react quickly enough. Zmapp boosts the antigen levels and allows the body to get itself into order and fight back.

Viral DNA/RNA sampling via sequencing. This is only available in "first world" countries.

3 key antigens are part of the Zmapp "cure."

More detail here all slow tests:-

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/diagnosis/

Which means they look for secondary symptoms such as temperature of patient etc.

PCR (DNA/RNA) is actually quite fast if you know what you are doing. Problem is bring the equipment to Africa to do this.
PCR machines are dime a dozen now and any numpty with a bit ot training can use them. I suppose the main obstacle would be keeping the reagents cold enough.
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  #207  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:22
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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I have to look again, but is there evidence of contagion in dogs?
The main carrier of the virus in West Africa is the fruit bat - or "flying dog" in German. I think that speaks for itself.

As it happens, I think the Spanish authorities' response to the dog threat was over the top, but I find it curious how people are reacting more emotionally to this than to 3000 dead human beings.

Maybe if those dead human beings had been Spanish instead of African...?
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  #208  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:33
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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The main carrier of the virus in West Africa is the fruit bat - or "flying dog" in German. I think that speaks for itself.

As it happens, I think the Spanish authorities' response to the dog threat was over the top, but I find it curious how people are reacting more emotionally to this than to 3000 dead human beings.

Maybe if those dead human beings had been Spanish instead of African...?

Uh no, because an animal is called a flying dog doesn't tell me much of anything.

Of course, we react more strongly to what we know than what we don't. I can't even imagine what it's like in Africa. It is a sad state of affairs that unknown humans rank lower than dogs, but on the other hand, I prefer my dog to the company of many people.

You're right though about the death of 3000 Africans versus 3000 Europeans - or even 300 Europeans. And if it's a continent away, it seems very far.... but once it hits our shores, we react. It's a sad commentary. It sort of reminds me of the early days of AIDS.
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  #209  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:34
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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PCR machines are dime a dozen now and any numpty with a bit ot training can use them. I suppose the main obstacle would be keeping the reagents cold enough.
PCR is getting quicker too, used to be hours to ramp up.

Really you need a clean lab environment to ensure the accuracy of the tests. No false positives etc and a lab full of Ebola not a good situation. Can't imagine you'd find that easily in Africa. Plus usual infrequent power supply issues and so on.

Problem is the sequencing then. You need trained staff and the cap electrophoresis machines + IT equipment to do this. Shame I work in another industry. By coincidence I was part of the team that created the worlds first automated DNA sequencing lab. I remember from pipetting into gels on a slab to automatic plate injections from extraction all the way to electrophoresis and analysis.

You can punt refrigerated cargo containers quite easily to deal with that cooling problem.
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  #210  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:35
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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The main carrier of the virus in West Africa is the fruit bat - or "flying dog" in German. I think that speaks for itself.


I do hope you are taking the piss?
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  #211  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:36
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Really. I also studied chemistry and biology as an undergraduate. And statistics as a graduate student. I usually don't snipe, but you just pissed me off.

I have to look again, but is there evidence of contagion in dogs? I know they can carry antibodies.
War over

I am struggling to find probability statistics for a global pandemic, only localised mathematics are available, now I wonder if this is by chance?
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  #212  
Old 09.10.2014, 12:40
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Really. I also studied chemistry and biology as an undergraduate. And statistics as a graduate student. I usually don't snipe, but you just pissed me off.

I have to look again, but is there evidence of contagion in dogs? I know they can carry antibodies.
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/3/pdfs/04-0981.pdf

Ask and you shall receive
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  #213  
Old 09.10.2014, 13:00
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

I've been looking for statistics too, but haven't found much of anything. I did find this interesting tidbit about the vaccine.... maybe it's old news to some of you, but it's rather disheartening. While I understand the need for research to survive.... this seems unfortunate.

http://news.sciencemag.org/africa/20...earchers-claim


ETA - the dog thing is interesting. So the dogs remain asymptomatic, which could be a big problem. Interesting though that primates seem to be very sensitive to Ebola - it kills off chimps and gorillas, perhaps easier than humans. And there are a few humans who've remained asymptomatic. we really need to ramp up infectious disease research, don't we?
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  #214  
Old 09.10.2014, 13:11
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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I've been looking for statistics too, but haven't found much of anything. I did find this interesting tidbit about the vaccine.... maybe it's old news to some of you, but it's rather disheartening. While I understand the need for research to survive.... this seems unfortunate.

http://news.sciencemag.org/africa/20...earchers-claim
A vaccine is more problematic as you need a cut down version of Ebola, that works within the body and gives a consistent response takes time to find this. Hence it's a shot in the dark at the moment, but you have to start somewhere.

"that is ready to do a safety trial of one of the candidate vaccines for Ebola."

It also requires a money no object action plan and a private company holds the key with this one. To me this should be handled in public hands with the WHO and governments who instruct the company in the good of mankind to deal with this and send us a cheque.

"Negotiations with the U.S. company that holds the license for commercialization of the vaccine—which contains a gene for the Ebola surface protein stitched into a livestock pathogen known as vesicular stomatitis virus (VSV)—have needlessly delayed the start of the trial,"

zMapp was government funded basically there's no money in Ebola until now so the Pharma's avoided it. This to me is the proven most hopeful response until the vaccine is available.

"MB-003 was created by Mapp Biopharmaceutical Inc., based in San Diego, with years of funding from US government agencies including the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency.[1][8] The production methods used to manufacture ZMapp were funded by Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZMapp

Source wikipedia I know but I'm lazy.
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Old 09.10.2014, 13:15
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

Statistical analysis of Ebola spread, best I've found so far. @ 55% Mortality rate which is the current level.

http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/a...bola-outbreak/

With updated projections

http://www.mobs-lab.org/ebola.html
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  #216  
Old 09.10.2014, 15:31
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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what would you do if you were in the same position as the spanish nurses husband?

dealing with his wife possibly dying, himself at risk and he's got enough emotional energy to still try to save his dog from being put down because dogs can get ebola.

what would we all do if there was an outbreak here, allow swiss officials to kill all dogs and cats if the outbreak started getting out of hand?
Then they would move on to L permit holders, then the B permit holders, then non-Aryan C permit holders and eventually everybody else who doesn't vote SVP.
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Old 09.10.2014, 15:46
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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Some may feel this is one of the most stupid things ever posted on here.

Ok, maybe saying "no Swiss person" was too broad. There is definitely a hard core of Swiss people who believe they are never wrong though. Most things work very well here 99% of the time. On some of those occasions where human error does occur, I've encountered Swiss people who won't believe there is a mistake until I send them written proof by registered letter or even waste my time visiting their office with a fistful of documents to show them that there is a problem. Typical example is when their billing system doesn't recognize that a bill has been paid and they keep sending the reminders.

Even if only a few people carry on like this, refusing to believe they have Ebola and trying to go about their day ignoring the symptoms, they can spread it to many other people over 2-3 days before it incapacitates them or forces them to seek treatment.
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  #218  
Old 09.10.2014, 16:09
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

This may be the first time Ebola has run this course of transfer in humans, so this thing may mutate for some time. Let's hope it mutates for the better.
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  #219  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:20
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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This may be the first time Ebola has run this course of transfer in humans, so this thing may mutate for some time. Let's hope it mutates for the better.
If this goes airborne (highly unlikely) we are pretty much dead.

Anyone else thought if they were Putin they might accidentally drop some Ebola from lab stocks in a US airport/bound aircraft?

http://english.pravda.ru/science/ear...ical_weapon-0/

Then again perhaps its the Americans?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...countries.html

Oh dear, this is a bad idea publishing this! lets say x2 persons were involved one carrier one helping to spread the disease, you could wait until the carrier is infectious/dying then the assistant plant/seed train stations with contaminated blood etc, at airports and areas of high people volume. Obviously Mr assistant is dead too, but he would become the 2nd seeding of the virus for a 3rd assistant and so on.
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  #220  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:34
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

According to Spanish media, the nurse infected with Ebola has taken a turn for the worse.

http://www.elmundo.es/espana/2014/10...3138b4583.html

No English source to confirm this yet
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