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  #221  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:44
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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According to Spanish media, the nurse infected with Ebola has taken a turn for the worse.

http://www.elmundo.es/espana/2014/10...3138b4583.html

No English source to confirm this yet
Here

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29548001
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  #222  
Old 09.10.2014, 17:58
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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The UK is sending troops too.

How many medical staff do you think would sign up for pretty much a certain chance of catching Ebola, with no Zmapp production? Strange that the source of so many deaths is the saviour for Ebola (Tobacco Plants?!)

The doctors in the US are too busy riding around in their Porsches/Ferrari's and enjoying the sunshine whilst counting their stack of 100 Dollar bills from the dodgy US healthcare system. I thought Doctors swore an oath to heal the sick perhaps that only applies where cash is involved?

There are many brave selfless individuals including a guy who survived (with Zmapp) in the UK that do and try to visit these regions to help, but it's not enough the local medics are dying by the hundred.

I too suspect this is training for an epidemic.

Luckily the burn out rate of Ebola (quick death, high chance) makes it more difficult to spread in large numbers from the source.

*Unless we get someone on a plane coughing and spluttering everywhere infecting the entire plane. If this happened to be on route to say a large airport such as Heathrow or JFK this could be interesting*

Ebola doesn't present itself for a while so these people could mingle into society and this is the risk. Perhaps they attend a football game or a rock concert? If they they do not seek treatment and they cannot be found/traced, then what?

Saying all this watch the news for when pockets appear in cities in Western countries if that happens we're pretty much fooked. The cat is then truly out of the bag.

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  #223  
Old 09.10.2014, 18:00
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

Looks to me like the Spanish don't have this situation at all under control

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nst-virus.html
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  #224  
Old 09.10.2014, 18:32
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

Well that's the statistics screwed Spain had a lower predicted chance of importation of Ebola than the UK or indeed CH.

RE:- Just 2 names. Yes definitely heroes and the rest of the medical community where are they?

MSF say their staff are burned out dealing with this on their own.

But indicating that she still did not think this was enough, Liu pleaded with world leaders not to “cut corners” and told them that “massive direct action is the only way”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...hes-not-enough
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  #225  
Old 09.10.2014, 20:03
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Looks to me like the Spanish don't have this situation at all under control

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nst-virus.html

Notice there is no official news from the Spanish authorities about the holiday this nurse was taking when she developed symptoms.

People are speculating about her passing Ebola to other people in the swimming pool or other facilities around the pool or resort.

Spain's resorts are extremely popular with visitors from wealthier and colder locations like the UK, Germany, Switzerland so it will be no surprise if somebody has taken Ebola back home with them and it should be no surprise if authorities want to avoid naming any town or resort that she visited out of fear that the whole district will be hit by a tsunami of cancellations.
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  #226  
Old 09.10.2014, 21:27
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

Are we really discussing the fate of single dog here?

Letting the dog live in quarantine and risking that the people that have to transport it, feed it, deal with it's potentially infectious droppings and potential bites get infected would be nothing short of insanity. I guess you're all full fledged vegans here and are not drive-by-killing thousands of animals a year like I do.


This is EF. Complaining about putting down Ebola-dog, but driving to Germany to buy eggs and meat produced under the most disgusting circumstances because they are half a Rappen cheaper.

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Ok, maybe saying "no Swiss person" was too broad. There is definitely a hard core of Swiss people who believe they are never wrong though. Most things work very well here 99% of the time. On some of those occasions where human error does occur, I've encountered Swiss people who won't believe there is a mistake until I send them written proof by registered letter or even waste my time visiting their office with a fistful of documents to show them that there is a problem. Typical example is when their billing system doesn't recognize that a bill has been paid and they keep sending the reminders.

Even if only a few people carry on like this, refusing to believe they have Ebola and trying to go about their day ignoring the symptoms, they can spread it to many other people over 2-3 days before it incapacitates them or forces them to seek treatment.
That's just more anecdotal evidence. If you had any health related statistics that would indicate that there is somehow a Swiss-specific mentality characteristic that would make the treatment of an epidemic more difficult, there would be a point in discussing this.

But at the moment it looks just like making predictions based on personal prejudices.
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  #227  
Old 09.10.2014, 21:43
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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Are we really discussing the fate of single dog here?
It was more a tongue-in-cheek comment of mine.
The dog is really just a symptom, a sort of projection-area for all the anger and fear.

(rant following)

But I actually take a bit of offense in the fact they were quick to put down the dog but obviously absolutely bungled the quarantine of the patient and totally, majorly ed up the case of the nurse.
As one of the above articles notes:
- the ambulance the nurse was transported in wasn't sterilized until a couple of other patients rode in it. I appreciate that the crew was probably midway in a 24 or 36h shift and the budget was cut etc.pp. - but that cannot be an excuse. Not in such a case.
- doctors and nurses weren't given any training or information
- nor did they receive adequate protection gear
- nor was the woman put in strict isolation immediately

Yeah, but let's put down the dog and pretend we're actually "doing something".

Maybe we should send a few politicians down to Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia so they can sober-up and get back a sense of reality.
I'm sure a couple of nurses and doctors from down there couldn't run the health-care system worse!
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  #228  
Old 09.10.2014, 21:53
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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It was more a tongue-in-cheek comment of mine.
This wasn't directed at you personally. I was just getting this strange Brigitte Bardot vibe from the last pages of this thread (the one of today, not the one of the 60s).


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The dog is really just a symptom, a sort of projection-area for all the anger and fear.

(rant following)

But I actually take a bit of offense in the fact they were quick to put down the dog but obviously absolutely bungled the quarantine of the patient and totally, majorly ed up the case of the nurse.
As one of the above articles notes:
- the ambulance the nurse was transported in wasn't sterilized until a couple of other patients rode in it. I appreciate that the crew was probably midway in a 24 or 36h shift and the budget was cut etc.pp. - but that cannot be an excuse. Not in such a case.
- doctors and nurses weren't given any training or information
- nor did they receive adequate protection gear
- nor was the woman put in strict isolation immediately

Yeah, but let's put down the dog and pretend we're actually "doing something".

Maybe we should send a few politicians down to Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia so they can sober-up and get back a sense of reality.
I'm sure a couple of nurses and doctors from down there couldn't run the health-care system worse!
I'm not saying the Spanish state is managing this in the most perfect way possible, but what you wrote is for me even more an indication that no risk should be taken with pets. Handling sick animals is usually not easier than handling sick humans.
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  #229  
Old 09.10.2014, 21:58
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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This wasn't directed at you personally. I was just getting this strange Brigitte Bardot vibe from the last pages of this thread (the one of today, not the one of the 60s).
.
I'm surprised she didn't make any statement yet.
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  #230  
Old 09.10.2014, 22:01
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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This wasn't directed at you personally.
It's a legitimate criticism, nevertheless.

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I'm not saying the Spanish state is managing this in the most perfect way possible, but what you wrote is for me even more an indication that no risk should be taken with pets. Handling sick animals is usually not easier than handling sick humans.
Unfortunately this is true, too.
But if putting down is the best thing they can do to ensure containment, that sets a bit of a dangerous precedent IMO.
Maybe I'm a bit too sensitive in that department, but it's a slippery slope....
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  #231  
Old 09.10.2014, 22:04
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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It was more a tongue-in-cheek comment of mine.
The dog is really just a symptom
Fever, vomiting, bleeding from orifices, an ache in the pelvic region, fits of hysterical shouting or even laughter, and now we're all going to come out in dogs as well? Feck.
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  #232  
Old 09.10.2014, 22:31
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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Fever, vomiting, bleeding from orifices, an ache in the pelvic region, fits of hysterical shouting or even laughter, and now we're all going to come out in dogs as well? Feck.
so that's a normal friday or saturday night out on the piss, when are you going to dedcribe the Ebola symptoms?
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  #233  
Old 09.10.2014, 22:41
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

If you look at the article linked a few pages back, it appears that dogs carry antibodies for ebola, however, seem to remain asymptomatic. Whether or not dogs can infect humans is unclear. If dogs remain asymptomatic, it's not clear that quarantine is helpful. Maybe quarantine is useful in determining whether or not antbodies develop.

Euthanizing the dog seems rather extreme. But just because i think that does not mean i am an animal rights crackpot. I do have a dog, and she is an important member of my family. I would not want to sacrifice her without good reason. Did Excalibur have ebola antibodies? Did they think through this, or was it a knee jerk hysterical reaction? I don't know.
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  #234  
Old 09.10.2014, 22:56
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

Could houseflies and other parasites be infection vectors? Housefly lands on a patient's sore or blood and lays a larvae, virus sticking to its legs, getting shooed away, then lands on an infected persons nose or wound. What prevents this?

For other parasites, such as mosquitoes, I can understand how going through their digestion might kill the virus.
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  #235  
Old 09.10.2014, 23:11
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Could houseflies and other parasites be infection vectors? Housefly lands on a patient's sore or blood and lays a larvae, virus sticking to its legs, getting shooed away, then lands on an infected persons nose or wound. What prevents this?



For other parasites, such as mosquitoes, I can understand how going through their digestion might kill the virus.

I don't think this is likely given the number of people infected. If insects were vectors, wouldn't you see a much higher incidence of infection?
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  #236  
Old 09.10.2014, 23:18
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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I don't think this is likely given the number of people infected. If insects were vectors, wouldn't you see a much higher incidence of infection?
I don't know if the quantity of incidents deceives us. But there are numerous reports of patients having no idea how they got it. Investigators express puzzlement, which disturbs me.
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  #237  
Old 10.10.2014, 00:27
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

Hand shaking is dangerous, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-28833593
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  #238  
Old 10.10.2014, 11:07
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Notice there is no official news from the Spanish authorities about the holiday this nurse was taking when she developed symptoms.

People are speculating about her passing Ebola to other people in the swimming pool or other facilities around the pool or resort.

Spain's resorts are extremely popular with visitors from wealthier and colder locations like the UK, Germany, Switzerland so it will be no surprise if somebody has taken Ebola back home with them and it should be no surprise if authorities want to avoid naming any town or resort that she visited out of fear that the whole district will be hit by a tsunami of cancellations.
That's a very good point. She went on holidays for a week, just imagine the number of people she came into contact with. In Spain it's also normal for women to greet people with a kiss on each cheek, imagine the potential for transmission through that!
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  #239  
Old 10.10.2014, 13:57
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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what a load of bollocks , a few routes isn't going to make or break an international airline company.
i disagree, stopping international trade will cause some significant financial hardship all round (which i think you have guessed by now is part of the value of life trade off)

unlike the spanish nurse who had the choice to nurse the infected priest and very kind of her it was.

i would spare a thought for those who don't have a choice,
for the stewardesses on these flights,
they likely have very little power to say they don't want to fly to western africa,

or all the airport workers, i also would not wish to be working in or going through an international? airport exposed to high people traffic unless i absolutely. had to.

i think what they are doing now, more checks at airports is a step in the right direction, but a bit of a loose net, the man in Texas showed signs days after he landed. I wouldn't feel comfortable in an airport right now even with the checks. i wouldnt be surprised if they put these checks in because they have noticed plane travel is down and its impacting some bottom lines.

and on a final note if you are exposed, your pets will be put down, wether you go to help voluntarily or are defacto exposed, so i would take the precaution and rehome my pets temporarily if i were in a high ebola risk job.
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  #240  
Old 10.10.2014, 14:01
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

From what I have read (El Pais) it seemed pretty clear that she didn't go anywhere outside of her neighborhood during her break from work.

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Notice there is no official news from the Spanish authorities about the holiday this nurse was taking when she developed symptoms.

People are speculating about her passing Ebola to other people in the swimming pool or other facilities around the pool or resort.

Spain's resorts are extremely popular with visitors from wealthier and colder locations like the UK, Germany, Switzerland so it will be no surprise if somebody has taken Ebola back home with them and it should be no surprise if authorities want to avoid naming any town or resort that she visited out of fear that the whole district will be hit by a tsunami of cancellations.
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