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  #141  
Old 07.10.2014, 16:02
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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The NHS is free

The NHS has problems

Where is the proof that these two facts are related though? Australia's Medicare is free and it works a lot better than the NHS.

Just look at the trains: Britain has privatized trains but they are a whole lot worse than publicly operated railways in Switzerland. There are other countries where public railways are bad though. There is no hard rule that privatized railways work better and there is no rule that says free health care is doomed. A lot of it is about the quality of the management and political agendas.

Nobody on this thread, myself included, has ever suggested abolishing co-payments or making everything in Swiss health care free of charge. The only point was about getting people to be checked for Ebola (if it actually becomes necessary). That said, if it would save lives, maybe those people who do need to stay home for 21 days should be paid to do so, just like the RAV pays people to look for jobs and the Swiss government pays farmers to maintain the land (because paying them subsidies would be wrong).
In the OP you are making a suggestion that a free-at-point-of-care system may be better equipped to deal with Ebola than the one in Switzerland, because (paraphrasing) the Swiss system discourages people to go to the doctor. You have specifically pointed out why a certain feature makes one system inferior for a specific scenario than another system. It then logically follows that to you it seems preferable to have the superior system, no?

So let me phrase my (admittedly sarcastic) post differently: assuming healthcare is a scarce resource (doubly so for specialists dealing with exotic diseases), with a certain capacity that is more or less constant irrespective of the form of payment, why do you think a system that is prone to be flooded by patients for every little thing is better equipped than a system that encourages people to get treatment for more serious stuff only?

In reality, if shit hits the fan, both systems will break down because their capacity is capped more or less equally. Until that breaking point however, I'd prefer if people don't clog the system with pointless visits to the doctor whenever they get a flu and just stay at home instead. In case someone does get serious symptoms, there will be resources available to quickly whisk them to a hospital equipped to deal with their illness.
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  #142  
Old 07.10.2014, 16:54
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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In reality, if shit hits the fan, both systems will break down because their capacity is capped more or less equally. Until that breaking point however, I'd prefer if people don't clog the system with pointless visits to the doctor whenever they get a flu and just stay at home instead. In case someone does get serious symptoms, there will be resources available to quickly whisk them to a hospital equipped to deal with their illness.
The guy in Texas took himself to hospital

He had (and still has) a very serious disease but at the time of his first ER visit, symptoms were not serious enough to get the doctors attention. However, the symptoms are serious in one way: they are a sign that the patient had become infectious to other people.

The media reports suggest 100 "potential" contacts and about 10 of those being high risk in the time between he went to hospital the first time and when he was taken back to hospital as an Ebola patient (ambulance crew reportedly used masks, etc)

The real point is not about the health system's ability to treat everybody - I agree they have limited capacity. The important point is about getting people isolated quickly to stop the spread of the disease.
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  #143  
Old 07.10.2014, 16:57
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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The guy in Texas took himself to hospital

He had (and still has) a very serious disease but at the time of his first ER visit, symptoms were not serious enough to get the doctors attention. However, the symptoms are serious in one way: they are a sign that the patient had become infectious to other people.

The media reports suggest 100 "potential" contacts and about 10 of those being high risk in the time between he went to hospital the first time and when he was taken back to hospital as an Ebola patient (ambulance crew reportedly used masks, etc)

The real point is not about the health system's ability to treat everybody - I agree they have limited capacity. The important point is about getting people isolated quickly to stop the spread of the disease.
Are we talking about the same guy that lied to border officials that he was not in contact with anyone with the virus in Africa?
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  #144  
Old 07.10.2014, 17:10
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

I have heard no compelling evidence that the individual's initial treatment in TX was due to co-pay/reimbursement issues.
Emergency rooms in the US are obliged to treat patients to the best of their ability....that ability may at times be found wanting regardless of the payment structure.
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  #145  
Old 07.10.2014, 17:33
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

Be prepared Ebola is just like the Zombie apocalypse, and they laughed about Blattman.

Co-payment? It will get you better health care in a rich country. Reason: They want your money, the more the sooner the better.

(Real opinion: It all boils down if Ebola is seen as Ebola by the diagnosing doctor or as something else. Nothing to do with co-payment or not. )
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  #146  
Old 07.10.2014, 17:35
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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A long time ago on British TV there was a consumer report on religion.

The British based "Church of England" came out best because,

1. it didn't cost you much to join, or to leave
2. all the songs and talks were in English
3. plenty of sales outlets, one in every town
4. you could keep your foreskin

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  #147  
Old 07.10.2014, 17:36
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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They could shoot the ebola victims? The most effective way (medically speaking) of preventing the disease from spreading would be to kill all those infected.
There is another option: Let it spread an let the survivor rule the world.
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  #148  
Old 07.10.2014, 17:41
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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A long time ago on British TV there was a consumer report on religion.

The British based "Church of England" came out best because,

1. it didn't cost you much to join, or to leave
2. all the songs and talks were in English
3. plenty of sales outlets, one in every town
4. you could keep your foreskin
There was a choice?
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  #149  
Old 07.10.2014, 18:20
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Re: Ebola in Switzerland

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Now that Ebola has been seen in the wild in the US and the EU (Spain), it is a bigger (although still not certain) possibility that it will arrive in Switzerland....
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For a better visibility I think this thread should be merged with the following:

Recent Ebola outbreak
Agreed. Merged.
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  #150  
Old 07.10.2014, 19:05
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

Ebola is contagious if one is in contact to the blood and/or body fluid of the affected person. You can't have it by shaking hands or cheeks kissing.

Most at risk people are the carers to someone affected.
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  #151  
Old 08.10.2014, 01:02
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

News is scary at the moment!......
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  #152  
Old 08.10.2014, 08:35
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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News is scary at the moment!......
Do you know that malaria kills more people everyday? That half of the world population is at risk to be affected? While Ebola is scary, it is not even close to what malaria does. Do we hear about it?

The reason Ebola is difficult to control in the affected African countries is because of the hygiene, culture and traditions. This is not an outbreak that will be happening here. A case here and there will appear and will be controlled on the spot with little to none collateral victims.
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  #153  
Old 08.10.2014, 10:11
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Ebola is contagious if one is in contact to the blood and/or body fluid of the affected person. You can't have it by shaking hands or cheeks kissing. Most at risk people are the carers to someone affected.
I am sorry to disagree, if you kiss a person with Ebola. and the virus is in the sweat of the victim, then you have a good chance of becoming infected. This is one reason the disease has spread fast in west Africa: it is customary to kiss your dead relatives "Good bye"

One nurse caught the Ebola virus during clearing away the dead person's sweat stained sheets.
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  #154  
Old 08.10.2014, 10:53
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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I am sorry to disagree, if you kiss a person with Ebola. and the virus is in the sweat of the victim, then you have a good chance of becoming infected. This is one reason the disease has spread fast in west Africa: it is customary to kiss your dead relatives "Good bye"

One nurse caught the Ebola virus during clearing away the dead person's sweat stained sheets.
That's why I wrote body fluid. It includes saliva, sweat, urine, fecal and vomit.
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  #155  
Old 08.10.2014, 12:56
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

what would you do if you were in the same position as the spanish nurses husband?

dealing with his wife possibly dying, himself at risk and he's got enough emotional energy to still try to save his dog from being put down because dogs can get ebola.

what would we all do if there was an outbreak here, allow swiss officials to kill all dogs and cats if the outbreak started getting out of hand?

jeez luis, i feel for this man.

i think from the news there are people there forming a human shield to try and prevent access to the flat to put the dog down, its nice to see people care.
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  #156  
Old 08.10.2014, 13:00
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Ebola is contagious if one is in contact to the blood and/or body fluid of the affected person. You can't have it by shaking hands or cheeks kissing.

Most at risk people are the carers to someone affected.
what if someone sneezes into their hand and shakes hands with you? or if you have a cut on your hand?
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  #157  
Old 08.10.2014, 13:20
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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what would you do if you were in the same position as the spanish nurses husband?

dealing with his wife possibly dying, himself at risk and he's got enough emotional energy to still try to save his dog from being put down because dogs can get ebola.

what would we all do if there was an outbreak here, allow swiss officials to kill all dogs and cats if the outbreak started getting out of hand?

jeez luis, i feel for this man.

i think from the news there are people there forming a human shield to try and prevent access to the flat to put the dog down, its nice to see people care.
Dogs vs humans.... hmmm give me a minute to cogitate upon that ethical dilemma...
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  #158  
Old 08.10.2014, 13:30
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Dogs vs humans.... hmmm give me a minute to cogitate upon that ethical dilemma...
Whilst cogitating, would you include having to anhialate all bats in the country? (They are accused of being the carrier culprits in yon land).

Possible to also include birds? Caged birds, Wildbirds & poultry?

Migrating birds? They commute over Africa and could be infected.

Mice? Rats? Flying insects?

Best maybe to include every living creature? Except humans.

May I tentatively suggest banning migrations of humans from other continents?

Gosh the list could go on endlessly.
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Old 08.10.2014, 14:08
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

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Ebola is contagious if one is in contact to the blood and/or body fluid of the affected person. You can't have it by shaking hands or cheeks kissing.
Actually you can. Sweat is contagious.

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Ebola then spreads through human-to-human transmission via direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and with surfaces and materials (e.g. bedding, clothing) contaminated with these fluids.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

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When an infection does occur in humans, the virus can be spread in several ways to others. Ebola is spread through direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth) with
  • blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/
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  #160  
Old 08.10.2014, 15:47
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Re: Recent Ebola outbreak

its one of those things you should keep in mind if the shit ever hits the fan, you may not consider killing one of your animals but there are plenty of people out there who would think its their right to for whatever self serving reason they have.

like i always like to say

learn how to use a gun with accuracy with either hand
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