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Old 27.09.2014, 18:52
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Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

While choosing the best hospital in Bern to give birth to our baby junior we decided to go to Salem Spital based on their information evening an due to the fact that it's a private clinic - following a review about the experiences we made:

When the contractions of my wife started in the middle of the night we first called the hospital as they told us in advance. We went for a first check but they sent us home again because it they were not strong enough. We asked the question on how to know when to come back? Nobody could tell us and they said that we will know on our own. So the next day in the afternoon the contractions were gettong much stronger and we went again. The midwife on shift told us that it's ready now and we were brought to the birth room. The rooms we could say are overall well equipped. A big bathtube, bed etc. So there are plenty of options to choose on how to give birth.

In advance they advertised that woman could get aromatherapy massage in order to relax the body of the upcoming event - the midwife gave me a few drops of oil an told to make the massage on my own.

After the "massage" my wife could relax in a warm bath and the contractions got better. We decided to give birth in a most "natural way" without medicaments if not needed. The midwife on shift proposed us three times to use PCA and when my wife told her that right now she does not want this she got almost angry and started to avoid us. After the shift changed we got an midwife which is still doing her appreniship and they decided to give my wife some medication to sleep and that she could rest a bit. We had the strange feeling that they just wanted to make sure we are not giving birth in their shift. Asking where to get a few minutes sleep the midwife told me to go home and sleep at home. As i didnt want to leave my wife alone i had to sleep on the floor to get some rest.

The next morning my wife got stressed because the whole process by then was already taking more than one day and she was really suffering from the pain. The next morning again a new midwife came to help us (early shift). She told us that we have to use PCA because of the pain my wife has. We didnt agree and called our doctor which is a kind of trustable person for my wife. He recommend us to wait and see what happens. So we told to the midwife that we want to wait for two more houres in order to check if the muttermund opens until then. She told that she will discuss with our doctor and came back pissed that we aready spoke with him. The contractions got stronger and nothing happened in these two houres. So we decided to start with PCA in order to lower the pain. As my wife was very unsure about the consequences for her and the baby we asked her about the risks and her personal opinion if she would do it in our situation. The answer was that she is not going to share her opinion with us anymore and that she cannot give any answer about the consequences...?

The shift changed again and we got a really nice midwife who cared about my wife and really helped us to come to the decision to use epidural anesthesia and a medicament to enhace the contractions since the process took so long already. The first time in the whole journey we felt actually good and confident that we could advance the process. We discussed the situation with our doctor and he recommended to do this as well because my wife would simply die from pain otherwise.

So unfortunately the shift changed again and we got the midwife who avoided us in the first place. During the whole birth process that night she almost didnt speak with us, she just did her routine checks and didn't even bother to tell to my wife to press when the time was right. One hour after giving birth she complained that midwifes have to help cleaning the room and then she told us that we have to leave asap because it already took so long and they need the room for future births (around 4 in the morning)...?

The day after as i slept on the only sofa available on the floor the manager came to me and told that it makes a very bad impression when people sleep on the sofa in their hospital. So i told him that it's not allowed to sleep on the bed next to my wife which is empty at this time and he replied that there is a chair in the room which i could use.

Some staff is really friendly and good but many are not and you really feel like a product. We are very lucky and happy with our junior boy and that everything went well. But next time we will choose another place for sure - and we recommend you as well to do the same as most of the midwifes don't speak english or you will get just an apprentice. We are sure that this behaviour was responsible for all the stress and that's one reason why it took so long (almost 40h!). It was an unnecessary risk for our lovely baby junior.
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Old 27.09.2014, 19:17
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

Congratulations guys, well done for the baby boy.
Wow, what a staff...What stroke me the most was that they told you to live asap as it already took a while... It seems surreal, honestly.
It is touching that you stood by your wife and supported her all the time, and I think this experience is going to make you stronger. Good luck to all of you, the most important thing and the only one that matters in the end is your healthy junior.
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Old 27.09.2014, 19:42
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

Congratulations on your baby boy. I am sorry to hear that you had an unpleasant experience. I gave birth at the Frauen Klinik at the Inselspital in Bern and had a great (but long) experience. My contractions started on a Sunday late night and I gave birth Thursday early morning. I went in every day since I couldn’t sleep due to the contractions being 3-5 minutes apart. Each day they checked my progress, gave me medicine, and sent me home. Finally I went in on Wednesday morning and they kept me in. They answered all the questions I had about any medications and options to speed things up. All the midwives were very positive and gave a lot of encouragement especially since I had very little sleep. Next time, you may want to try the Frauen Klinik.
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Old 27.09.2014, 19:43
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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most of the midwifes don't speak english
That's true in ALL of Switzerland.

Tom
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Old 27.09.2014, 19:45
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

I've not had a baby, but if you're in Bern, the Lindenhofspital is an excellent place - my gyn practices there.
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Old 27.09.2014, 20:10
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

Congratulations to you all on the birth of your healthy Baby to your family.
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Old 30.09.2014, 12:42
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

So glad to here that all is well for mother and child. And kudos to you for being super hubby to the rescue! All the best!
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Old 30.09.2014, 13:18
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

congrats on junior!

and welcome to childbirth! i have given birth on two different continents and had awful experiences in both due to midwives (mainly), other staff, and circumstances beyond anyone's control (labour took superlong). many of the people involved were great but both times it was not an experience i want to remember, apart from the beautiful healthy babies that arrived. concentrate on that.

birth and the whole process involved can be a beautiful experience for some and for others it's not so great. sometimes it's due to the people around you, sometimes it isn't. you might have just been unlucky as far as shift changes etc. go. both places i felt unhappy with came highly recommended by many others. what i took from that is that most places are much the same, it's your personal experience that makes them vastly different (of course that applies to most things) but childbirth is not a product like a car or a service like a stay at a hotel, and i would in hindsight have reservations about trying to rate it that way and also trusting other reviews that rate it that way.

so in a very longwinded way, i am trying to say, sorry you had a bad experience but even if you went to the same place next time your experience might be totally different. trust that all professionals involved have the baby's and the mother's best interests at heart, even if they have a horrible way of showing it.

all the best for you and baby!
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Old 30.09.2014, 13:28
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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In advance they advertised that woman could get aromatherapy massage in order to relax the body of the upcoming event - the midwife gave me a few drops of oil an told to make the massage on my
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Old 30.09.2014, 13:40
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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One hour after giving birth she complained that midwifes have to help cleaning the room and then she told us that we have to leave asap because it already took so long and they need the room for future births (around 4 in the morning)...?
I think you're being unreasonable here.

Not even Swiss mothers can plan exactly what time the baby will come out.
It could as well be 04.00 in the morning as just after morning coffee break. There may have been someone waiting to give birth.

They also cannot control how many births there will be on a chosen day - they could have had several mothers waiting to use the room.

Do you expect them to use a communal ward to give birth?


Congratulations on the birth!
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Old 30.09.2014, 13:55
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

Congratulation to your wife and you to the birth of your baby-boy!

I wonder from which cultural background you are coming from. Did you consider that the reaction by the midwife(s) were based on how you approached them? Not because you refused the medication, but they way you spoke to them?


Well, I have this impression, but let me explain why.

Here in Switzerland we treat employees the same way we treat as everybody else - women or men, does not matter.

I would even say we encounter employees with the same respect we show towards our friends and relatives, though only on a "professional" level, not touching personal subjects of course.
But as soon as you treat an employee, a servant, a midwife, a clerk like somebody who is obliged to serve you, then you already will have lost. At least you will have fully lost the respect of your counterpart, the midwife here, though she will go on with her duties as professionally as expected, but not more. No wonder she will work–as we say–according to the paragraphs, but nothing more, she will surely not provide her useful knowledge and passion, such more optimal aspects you will consequently have just simply to forget.

For me, your descriptions sounds very much about such an reaction.

I just recently had a similar experience in a communal office:

When I entered the office the clerk was occupied with another person, and it was inherently obvious that you have to wait. What else!?
So I took a seat on one of many chairs in front of the desk and waited. Few moments later an English speaking (as I later found out) person entered the office. The clerk was still occupied with the first "customer". Though he spoke in broken German, the English "gentlemen" was doing everything wrong just from the moment he entered the office.
Just briefly after he entered the office he approached the clerk interrupting (extremely impolitely!) the conversation between the clerk and the first customer. She, the clerk asked him to wait.
But instead to take a seat like me, he incomprehensibly approached her again, the clerk, to metaphorically ask whether he could just take care by himself and go along (which was obviously not possible at all, besides the fact that I was in front of him, very obviously as well, but he neglected this stubbornly). Well, that was not the last time he got a venomous view by her for this evening, I could tell you!

Obviously he did not respect the procedures in this office, at all, treated her just like an arbitrary person, and even "his trick" to speak some German did not help him at all!

No wonder he lost the respect by the clerk and he was treated by her in consequence what you would probably call disrespectful, if you do not understand the problematic situation, the same way as the doubtful gentleman did neither, but actually she was just very upset about his own disrespect!


When I read you story I was immediately reminded about this story.

Of course, I do not know whether I am correct, because I did not take part in your story–like everybody else here on EF–, but just take this into consideration as well!
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Old 30.09.2014, 14:06
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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For me, your descriptions sounds very much about such an reaction.

I just recently had a similar experience in a communal office:

When I entered the office the clerk was occupied with another person, and it was inherently obvious that you have to wait. What else!?
So I took a seat on one of many chairs in front of the desk and waited. Few moments later an English speaking (as I later found out) person entered the office. The clerk was still occupied with the first "customer". Though he spoke in broken German, the English "gentlemen" was doing everything wrong just from the moment he entered the office.
Just briefly after he entered the office he approached the clerk interrupting (extremely impolitely!) the conversation between the clerk and the first customer. She, the clerk asked him to wait.
But instead to take a seat like me, he incomprehensibly approached again her, the clerk, to metaphorically asked whether he could just take care by himself and go along (which was obviously not possible at all, besides the fact that I was in front of him, very obviously as well, but he neglected this stubbornly). Well, that was not the last time he got a venomous view by her for this evening, I could tell you!

Obviously he did not respect the procedures in this office, at all, treated her just like an arbitrary person, and even "his trick" to speak some German did not help him at all!

No wonder he lost the respect by the clerk and he was treated by her in consequence what you would probably call disrespectful, if you do not understand the problematic situation, the same way as the doubtful gentleman did neither, but actually she was just very upset about his own disrespect!


When I read you story I was immediately reminded about this story.

Of course, I do not know whether I am correct, because I did not take part in your story–like everybody else here on EF–, but just take this into consideration as well!
I normally avoid interacting on this forum on non-legal matters. However, in this case I feel slightly compelled to.

Firstly, with regards to your assumption on the OP's behaviour or treatment of the Midwife and hospital staff: What made you think that this would be the case? Would it not be entirely plausble that the midwife felt rebuked by the OP's doctor and so as a "Trotzreaktion" didn't want to inform the OP as he had afterall clearly just spoken to the doctor on the matter?

Secondly, again you make a sweeping statment that the "english speaking" person did everything wrong from the moment they entered the office. It could very well, have been a well intended attempt to not waste the clerk or anybody else waiting for the clerk's time.

When you are in a foreign country and you are confronted with a new and sometimes overwhelming situation (such as the birth of your first child) the likelyhood of putting your foot in it is a little higher. It does not mean that the OP was disrespectful only that he may well have been overwhelmed and in need of warmth and guidence BY THE STAFF QUALIFIED AND PAID TO DO SO.

I really do not understand how on earth you can jump to the conclusion that someone who is not Swiss must obviously be treating people here with disrespect and as "slaves"..
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Old 30.09.2014, 14:26
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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No wonder he lost the respect by the clerk and he was treated by her in consequence what you would probably call disrespectful, if you do not understand the problematic situation, the same way as the doubtful gentleman did neither, but actually she was just very upset about his own disrespect!
Yes, because this is what public clerks (aren't they called public servants, actually?) are supposed to do, give in to their frustrations and punish their customers after that. Show them who's the boss!

What this story has to do with OP's story? All I saw was an admirable man that was really worried about his wife and first child! and a staff that was insensitive to the situation.

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I normally avoid interacting on this forum on non-legal matters. However, in this case I feel slightly compelled to.

..
Wise man.
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Old 30.09.2014, 15:10
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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Yes, because this is what public clerks (aren't they called public servants, actually?) are supposed to do, give in to their frustrations and punish their customers after that. Show them who's the boss!
No, definitely not. NOT in Switzerland. That's where the culture clash takes place.

And as long as you do not acknowledge it you will constantly fail here. It's your choice.

Last edited by Sublime; 30.09.2014 at 15:43.
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Old 30.09.2014, 15:18
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

Sublime: it is clear that you are not a native English speaker. Which is fine, but don't get hung up on the semantics of the term "public servant". It does not denoate a derogatory attitude nor actually deem such people holding that office as servants. They do however work "im Dienste der Öffentlichkeit" and as a fellow Swiss I know that THAT is the same view the Swiss have. So no, that is not the "cause of the cultural clash" however nice and comfortable that would be for you.

Now, let's stop highjacking the OP's thread.
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Old 30.09.2014, 15:18
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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No, definitely not. NOT in Switzerland. That's were the culture clash takes place.

And as long as you do not acknowledge it you will constantly fail here. It's your choice.
Boaha haha, thanks for groaning me, repeatedly. I am a very humble person, actually apologetic or timid is much better (probably that's why the Swiss generally like me), especially when I have to deal with the said public "servants"...knowledge from back home. Boy, they can really make your life miserable if they want to. I still don't agree with this sort of mentality, sorry.
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Old 30.09.2014, 15:26
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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I normally avoid interacting on this forum on non-legal matters. However, in this case I feel slightly compelled to.

Firstly, with regards to your assumption on the OP's behaviour or treatment of the Midwife and hospital staff: What made you think that this would be the case? Would it not be entirely plausble that the midwife felt rebuked by the OP's doctor and so as a "Trotzreaktion" didn't want to inform the OP as he had afterall clearly just spoken to the doctor on the matter?
It's possible, of course, as I said. But rather seldom. Of course I cannot draw a final conclusions. Only the involved one can – also to some extend only, however.

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Secondly, again you make a sweeping statment that the "english speaking" person did everything wrong from the moment they entered the office. It could very well, have been a well intended attempt to not waste the clerk or anybody else waiting for the clerk's time.
Because he did make everything wrong. I was there, do you remember!? I do not judge it was wrongly intended, but only percieve that he indeed did everything wrong he could do given the local (ruling) code of behavior. That's all I say.

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When you are in a foreign country and you are confronted with a new and sometimes overwhelming situation (such as the birth of your first child) the likelyhood of putting your foot in it is a little higher. It does not mean that the OP was disrespectful only that he may well have been overwhelmed and in need of warmth and guidence BY THE STAFF QUALIFIED AND PAID TO DO SO.
These are obviously your values, not mine, and in general not Swiss, neither!

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I really do not understand how on earth you can jump to the conclusion that someone who is not Swiss must obviously be treating people here with disrespect and as "slaves"..
I did not jump, and I do not conclude he did. I did not even say any comparable at all!!! These are–again!–all your conclusions!

And I only said it reminds me about a comparable story I experienced, because of its comparable outcome. So there is a possibility that it had comparable reasons. BTW more than "once" percieved by me in reality (not just by hearsaying). And I only ask whether this could have been the real reason for the uncomfortable outcome – nothing else, no conclusion.
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Old 30.09.2014, 15:33
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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Sublime: it is clear that you are not a native English speaker. Which is fine, but don't get hung up on the semantics of the term "public servant". It does not denoate a derogatory attitude nor actually deem such people holding that office as servants. They do however work "im Dienste der Öffentlichkeit" and as a fellow Swiss I know that THAT is the same view the Swiss have. So no, that is not the "cause of the cultural clash" however nice and comfortable that would be for you.

Now, let's stop highjacking the OP's thread.
"Im Dienste de Öffentlichkeit"means about the same as "nach Arbeitvorschrift arbeiten" (not semantically, but in in consequence). And that was it what this midwife has done, it seems.

But there is also a human factor to factor in, if you don't mind! And this seemed to have failed, for whatever reason. And one of the most frequent reason is based on cultural misunderstanding to phrase it more PC. But in the end it means that somebody got emotionally hurt, and often the source is not to be found at the one who complains about it–and does not understand why, rather the other way around!

This is just simply commen sense.
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Old 30.09.2014, 15:38
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

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Boaha haha, thanks for groaning me, repeatedly. I am a very humble person, actually apologetic or timid is much better (probably that's why the Swiss generally like me), especially when I have to deal with the said public "servants"...knowledge from back home. Boy, they can really make your life miserable if they want to. I still don't agree with this sort of mentality, sorry.
Self-adulation is definitely frowned upon here in Switzerland, did you not know??
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Old 30.09.2014, 15:49
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Re: Giving birth in Salem Spital Bern - not recommended!

Sublime - Enough. This thread is not about you and your oddball office experience. Make your own thread if you're that passionate about it. Thank you.
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