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Old 20.11.2014, 22:25
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Children after Separation/Alimony

Hello,

My future husband has 2 kids, under the age of 6. He was never married to the mother. He pays child alimony. Once we are married, will this change the child alimony payment amount? Do you suggest we get legally married?

Also, once we have children of our own (my 1st child, and his 3rd child) how will the child alimony payment amounts that he pays be divided? Is it simply just divided by 3 children? Is it possible that he pay less for our child, than for his first 2 children, as I work 100% and the mother of the 2 kids works 50%?

Any advice on children after a separation is appreciated.
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Old 21.11.2014, 07:54
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

In Switzerland every child receives a fixed amount depending on its age. The circumstances of the parent are irrelevant.
The amount IIRC is between about Fr 600 and Fr 1200 per month.
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Old 21.11.2014, 08:04
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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In Switzerland every child receives a fixed amount depending on its age. The circumstances of the parent are irrelevant.
The amount IIRC is between about Fr 600 and Fr 1200 per month.
Oh, I get 600-1200 franks less than that. It is dependent to some extent on the circumstances of the parent, but, OP, once written in stone it is very hard to change the terms of agreement. Think about it, if you had a kid, and relied on the other parents financial support, how would you cope if s/he stopped paying or paid less maintenance because he has another kid now. Does that mean new kids are more important than the old? He made those kids, and he has a responsibilty to help raise them until they are adults, not just until he made another one.
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Old 21.11.2014, 08:13
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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In Switzerland every child receives a fixed amount depending on its age. The circumstances of the parent are irrelevant.
The amount IIRC is between about Fr 600 and Fr 1200 per month.
I'm sorry this is absolutely untrue. The parents income is very much taken into account.

To the OP: Child alimony won't simply be split 3 ways if you have a child with your partner. A new calculation would be made for you.. considering you work full time the child alimony you would receive could quite possibly be less than the mother of his other children.

There are many factors you need to consider here. I personally would recommend marriage... Under Swiss Law the married family unit is still viewed as the primary family unit and the protections offered are a little greater than unmarried couples with children.

My advice would be to recommend you have a consultation with a lawyer to discuss your various concerns.
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Old 21.11.2014, 12:35
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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I personally would recommend marriage...


Precisely why getting married is a scary thing (for a man). Its a business transaction. What can I get out of it. :-)
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Old 21.11.2014, 12:41
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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Precisely why getting married is a scary thing (for a man). Its a business transaction. What can I get out of it. :-)
What do you expect to get out of it?
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Old 21.11.2014, 12:48
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

Nothing at all. That's why I have no plans or needs to get married. :-)
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Old 21.11.2014, 14:13
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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Precisely why getting married is a scary thing (for a man). Its a business transaction. What can I get out of it. :-)
Why that earns a groan is a mystery - but ok, I'll take it

From a strictly legal point of view - yes the institute of marriage is a business transaction.

From a personal point of view - surely if you're willing to have a child with your partner you're committing for a life time anyway? So why not marry and ensure legal stability?
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Old 21.11.2014, 14:18
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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Why that earns a groan is a mystery - but ok, I'll take it

From a strictly legal point of view - yes the institute of marriage is a business transaction.

From a personal point of view - surely if you're willing to have a child with your partner you're committing for a life time anyway? So why not marry and ensure legal stability?
What's this legal stability you are talking about? Can you please elaborate? Thanks!
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Old 21.11.2014, 14:22
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

LawyerD:


> From a personal point of view - surely if you're willing to have a child with your partner you're committing for a life time anyway? So why not marry and ensure legal stability?


Committing to the child for a lifetime yes. Wanting to commit to your partner for a lifetime yes. That actually happening for a lifetime (doubtful nowadays). Either party could be responsible for the demise of a relationship (no blame here). The couple could simply lose interest in each other, without even mentioning things like cheating or sleeping around.


Legal stability? What does that mean? Nothing is stable, health, work and relationships even less. Although the idea is noble, same as lifelong love and marriage it is not realistic.


Why get tied up in a costly contract when quite clearly it will be broken.


Prenups could be a way of securing assets. I don't think many women would agree to prenups securing the man's assets when that clearly means she has to work every day until she is 65.
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Old 21.11.2014, 08:26
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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In Switzerland every child receives a fixed amount depending on its age. The circumstances of the parent are irrelevant.
The amount IIRC is between about Fr 600 and Fr 1200 per month.
That's not true! The amount usually is a fixed percentage of the brut salary. 12% for one child, 15-18% for two. And this is not a set in stone rule, it can be discussed in court.

Edit: Lawyerd was faster
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Old 21.11.2014, 08:29
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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That's not true! The amount usually is a fixed percentage of the brut salary. 12% for one child, 15-18% for two. And this is not a set in stone rule, it can be discussed in court.

Edit: Lawyerd was faster
Depends on the canton.

I know someone who was ordered to pay 1300/month to start, increasing to 1600 after a few years, with a gross salary of 7k.

Tom
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Old 21.11.2014, 11:36
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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That's not true! The amount usually is a fixed percentage of the brut salary. 12% for one child, 15-18% for two. And this is not a set in stone rule, it can be discussed in court.

Edit: Lawyerd was faster
That's not true. my ex earns more than 0 brut (which is was 0.12 x what I get is)
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Old 21.11.2014, 12:21
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

This is something to consider very carefully. If your income decreases this may also decrease the amount he has to pay for your child. But if his income increases then he has to pay an increased amount for the first children. This puts high pressure on you as the 'breadwinner'. And potentially very resentful about the first wife/family, if the wife can sustain on 50% salary.

It is something that very much needs to be entered 'eyes wide open'...especially as he is already someone who has come out of an unstable relationship / relationship breakdown. Your economic position could be greatly reduced if you have children and find yourself unable to work full time, or paying out very high childcare costs...
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Old 21.11.2014, 13:42
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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That's not true. my ex earns more than 0 brut (which is was 0.12 x what I get is)
A judge granted that he pays nothing for his kids???
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Old 21.11.2014, 14:27
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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A judge granted that he pays nothing for his kids???
Yep. Although he has to share the cost of transport (he is still in the UK) so he has to pay for 1.5 visits a year.....
His income is not great (even by UK standards) and his wife showed the court that her income was around Ł585..... for the entire tax year.


and the funniest thing was that HE was the one with the problem about the judgement.
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Old 21.11.2014, 14:30
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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Hello,

My future husband has 2 kids, under the age of 6. He was never married to the mother. He pays child alimony. Once we are married, will this change the child alimony payment amount? Do you suggest we get legally married?

Also, once we have children of our own (my 1st child, and his 3rd child) how will the child alimony payment amounts that he pays be divided? Is it simply just divided by 3 children? Is it possible that he pay less for our child, than for his first 2 children, as I work 100% and the mother of the 2 kids works 50%?

Any advice on children after a separation is appreciated.
Going by what I see amongst people I know here - divorced/seperated/new partner etc and children, is that nothing changes.

He pays for his children according to whatever agreement he has and keeps paying until they are self-sufficient/qualified.
You both have "new" children if you can afford them.

To take it to ridiculous lengths (for an analogy) if you both produce 5 more children, the original first two of his previous life are not expected to suffer because of your "over-production".

I say this because there are a specific couple I know who would love to have their own child together, but cannot afford to, as they both support children from their previous marriages.
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Old 21.11.2014, 14:35
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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To take it to ridiculous lengths (for an analogy) if you both produce 5 more children, the original first two of his previous life are not expected to suffer because of your "over-production".

I say this because there are a specific couple I know who would love to have their own child together, but cannot afford to, as they both support children from their previous marriages.
As much as I despise this: If the second couple are married, the Courts do view the financial commitment to the children in the second marriage as more important once the child out of the previous relationship is of age..

Yes the child from a previous relationship is not expected to suffer due to "over-production" BUT if financially the father is no longer able to pay amount X due to the costs of his new family, the father can apply to the Courts to have the child support reduced.
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Old 21.11.2014, 14:49
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

lawyerd:


Good points for what happens in the event of a death. Clearly a will should be prepared.


I am still vehemently against marriage.


nejc: Fiction? What are you on about? More vulnerable? Why would a women be automatically more vulnerable? Its 2014, women are not automatically more vulnerable. In the west women have access to education, even higher education and can have a career and can make more money than even men. Granted, the work environment is not perfect and unequality is still an issue, but women are not more vulnerable than men.


In some situation they maybe have more problems to overcome, but a woman can be independent and financially independent. Long gone are the days were women could not work and had to stay at home and look after the children. (and were fully dependent on their husbands)
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Old 21.11.2014, 14:59
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Re: Children after Separation/Alimony

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lawyerd:


Good points for what happens in the event of a death. Clearly a will should be prepared.


I am still vehemently against marriage.
The beauty is that you don't have to get married! It used to be illegal up until the late 70s/early 80s to co-habitate in the canton of Zurich! If you wanted to live with your partner you either had to turn it into a room-mate type situation with other room mates present. OR get married.

I respect your personal choice. But, my initial post recommending marriage to the OP does remain. From a legal perspective given her situation (as far as she has shared), a legal marriage would be best for her. She clearly intends to marry him anyway hence the reference to her "husband to be".

On a more philosophical basis: I think the law lags behind the social reality. Especially in Switzerland. Society has developed and allowed for different forms of family. Whether to the good of society or the detriment, one cannot say. But personally, I still believe the more traditional values, commitment of the institute of marriage play a central role. Saying that, I do respect all the other types of families. And yes, sometimes, when I've spent all day elbow-deep brokering and dealing with divorce, I sometimes wonder why people bother.

Out of curiosity - if you had to pay alimony to the mother of your child regardless of whether you were married or not, would you still be against marriage? OR would you perhaps be against having children in the first place?
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