Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.11.2014, 11:50
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ZH
Posts: 156
Groaned at 13 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
maxiii is considered unworthymaxiii is considered unworthymaxiii is considered unworthy
Marriage contract useful?

Does a marriage contract make sense?

I heard two versions:

(1) A marriage contract is useful if one gets divorced: If the property question is solved in the contract than the judge has less work and a divorce goes through cheaper and faster.

(2) A marriage contact in CH does not capture important bits about property, so that it is basically useless.

My potential spouse and I are in love yada yada, but we are also realistic that 50% of marriages get divorced nowadays. If it does not work out, we'll probably be agreeing on a divorce, so there will be no quarrel.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24.11.2014, 13:06
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Marriage contract useful?

In most European countries, what you have at the beginning of a marriage, is what you keep at the end. What you both collected in between is halved.

The relevant law comes from where you get divorced. If you can make it to Saudi before you get a court order from Switzerland, you might even keep the lot...

The idea is a bit depressing isn't it? So why not forget the idea. Or is one of you being pressured by a member of their family to sign a contract?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24.11.2014, 13:52
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ZH
Posts: 156
Groaned at 13 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
maxiii is considered unworthymaxiii is considered unworthymaxiii is considered unworthy
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Eh no.

Nobody is pressing anybody here.

I just want to make clear that things go alright, when things break up.

The contract would then - in my opinion - include that things are not halved; the one who bought the house keeps the house - period. Unromantic but fair.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank maxiii for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 24.11.2014, 14:18
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Quote:
View Post
Eh no.

Nobody is pressing anybody here.

I just want to make clear that things go alright, when things break up.

The contract would then - in my opinion - include that things are not halved; the one who bought the house keeps the house - period. Unromantic but fair.
Then you would need to have the house professionally valued just before the wedding, and just before the divorce. Then halve the increase or decrease in value, and adjust the final sum.

That is more fair, as both partners are "paying" the mortgage, and both are benefiting from living there.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24.11.2014, 14:19
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,849
Groaned at 146 Times in 129 Posts
Thanked 6,588 Times in 3,062 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Quote:
View Post
when things break up.
That is a bit negative, isn't it?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 24.11.2014, 14:24
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 6,397
Groaned at 281 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 14,559 Times in 4,477 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Marriage contract useful?

I feel a marriage contract is a protectionary measure for women (or men) who give up their jobs (or reduce working time) due to raising children. Getting back into the working world is difficult and, in case of break up, the contract offers financial support for the financially constrained partner.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 24.11.2014, 14:52
jesuisuntouriste's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Genève
Posts: 240
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 207 Times in 91 Posts
jesuisuntouriste has earned some respectjesuisuntouriste has earned some respect
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Why marry if you think there's a 50% chance of divorce in the future?

Wouldn't it be better to live-in "just in case"?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jesuisuntouriste for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 24.11.2014, 14:59
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Quote:
View Post
I feel a marriage contract is a protectionary measure for women (or men) who give up their jobs (or reduce working time) due to raising children. Getting back into the working world is difficult and, in case of break up, the contract offers financial support for the financially constrained partner.
Not really. It seems an efficient way to ensure that partners get nothing of what the other brought into the marriage (which is the rule here anyway). If there are no assets aquired during the marriage, then both will walk away with just what they brought in.

I don't see a pre-nup offering anything extra for post-divorce support (where there are no children, and then only to get some support toward the upkeep of the child).

If one partner worked two jobs to support and pay for the other's Plastic Surgery qualifications, then, as far as I can see, it's just tough.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 18.02.2015, 11:33
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wollerau
Posts: 122
Groaned at 23 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 41 Times in 29 Posts
TenaciousJ is considered a nuisanceTenaciousJ is considered a nuisanceTenaciousJ is considered a nuisance
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Quote:
View Post
In most European countries, what you have at the beginning of a marriage, is what you keep at the end. What you both collected in between is halved.

The relevant law comes from where you get divorced. If you can make it to Saudi before you get a court order from Switzerland, you might even keep the lot...

The idea is a bit depressing isn't it? So why not forget the idea. Or is one of you being pressured by a member of their family to sign a contract?


Forget about getting married? :-)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24.11.2014, 17:00
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sion/VS, Fribourg/FR, Bern/BE
Posts: 965
Groaned at 20 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 513 Times in 259 Posts
happyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputation
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Personally I think the marriage contract is not very useful.

The default "régime matrimonial" which means that everything personal on the moment of marriage will remain personal upon divorce (i.e. not dividable) and everything gained during the marriage is divided 50-50, with exceptions mentioned by Tom.

If you want to be more separate you can also select "séparation des biens", where everything (even gaining during marriage) is not dividable.

So, my point is that, what you want to make clear in the marriage contract is probably already clear in the régime matrimonial. For example, making a contract saying that the house you bought before marriage will remain yours after the divorce is just useless (because by default it is only yours upon divorce). On the other hand, what is not clear by only the regime matrimonial can neither be solved by a pre-marriage contract, because most of the after-marriage events which might bring financial disputes cannot be predicted when you marry.

Also, note that the room left for the marriage contract is not that much in Switzerland. You cannot sign a contract which has obvious and enormous advantage for one side. Otherwise, in extreme cases the judge can decide that some item of the contract is not valid to protect both sides on divorce.

Quote:
View Post
Does a marriage contract make sense?

I heard two versions:

(1) A marriage contract is useful if one gets divorced: If the property question is solved in the contract than the judge has less work and a divorce goes through cheaper and faster.

(2) A marriage contact in CH does not capture important bits about property, so that it is basically useless.

My potential spouse and I are in love yada yada, but we are also realistic that 50% of marriages get divorced nowadays. If it does not work out, we'll probably be agreeing on a divorce, so there will be no quarrel.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank happyrobbie for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 24.11.2014, 17:13
Mica's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 822
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1,057 Times in 467 Posts
Mica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Swiss marriage contracts regulate primarily property rights, i.e. who is entitled to what property that is brought into or gained during a marriage.

However, marriage contracts not only come into play in case of divorces but they can also be important:
- during the term of marriage in terms of liability for debts of your spouse;
- upon death of a spouse (since under Swiss law you separate property according to your matrimonial property arrangements and only the remaining part gets inherited).

So looking into marriage contracts does not equate with being pessimistic about the success of a marriage (you might simply be pessimistic about your spouse's life span or business savvy...)
__________________
Liability for any statements hereinabove excluded! - Need a Swiss lawyer PM me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mica for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 18.02.2015, 11:21
Zaletraf's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 24
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Zaletraf has no particular reputation at present
Re: Marriage contract useful?

I´ll be marrying soon in Basel and I´m looking forward to have a better idea of this Marriage contract.
All the information given was really useful but, any of you know where or with who can I go to elaborate the document?

Greetings!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18.02.2015, 11:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 6,964
Groaned at 65 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 10,102 Times in 4,140 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Marriage contract useful?

I think it is an excellent idea to understand the options before getting married. Like any contract, it is there for the possibility that things might go wrong which, as has been pointed out above, might not be in a separation or divorce, but could also be when death you doth part (and you or your spouse and your children, come to inherit).

I don't think contracts cast a bad light on any venture, not even a marriage. They are not unromantic, or unloving, or negative. Just very sensible. After all, this forum is full of threads, for example, by people trying to get out of a tenancy contract. And over and over and over again, the answer is: You are bound by what you signed.
Any contract is there, on paper, to help everyone understand, at the start, to what they are committing. And so they will know how to sort things out if the arrangement ever needs to end, be it with tears, or just with a hug and a handshake. In the same way, business partners who firmly believe that their new business has a good chance, also sign contracts... so that, if they ever need to split up, even for another successful projects, they will be able to refer to the contract to know how to do take their business apart with the minimum of damage to everyone.

Here is the offical Swiss government site, with links about marriage contracts:
https://www.ch.ch/en/search/?search_...riage+contract
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 18.02.2015, 17:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,336
Groaned at 24 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 982 Times in 586 Posts
Meerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Financial consequences of marriage – matrimonial property regimes

The matrimonial property regime sets out what belongs to whom during the marriage and how assets and debts will be divided up in the event of divorce or death. In Switzerland, there are three different property regimes: Contribution to jointly acquired property, joint estate, separate estates

Contribution to jointly acquired property

This regime applies to married couples who have not expressly arranged another type of regime.
  • During the marriage the property of the spouses remains separate.
  • They each retain ownership of their own estate, i.e. the property which they contribute on marriage or which they personally inherit or receive as a gift during marriage, and manage their own estates separately.
  • The savings made during the marriage (‘acquêts’, e.g. salaries, interest) can be used and managed independently by each spouse.
  • On dissolution of the matrimonial property regime (divorce, death or new marital property regime), the jointly acquired property is divided equally between the two spouses.
  • The spouses are in principle only liable to pay their own debts with their own estate, unless the other spouse agreed to share the financial burden or the debt arises from every-day expenditure.


Joint estates

A marital agreement (marriage contract) must be made if you want to have this type of marital regime. Marital agreements must be certified by a notary. It allows for three types of property:
  • The wife’s property (separate estate);
  • The husband’s property (separate estate);
  • Joint property (joint estate).
The joint estate includes the spouses assets and income, with the exception of objects classed as belonging to separate estates in the law or marriage contract. The joint estate is jointly managed by the spouses and divided equally between them when the marital property regime is dissolved.
The husband or wife are in principle only liable for the payment of their debts with half of the joint estate and their own separate estate. In certain cases one spouse may have to pay debts with the whole of the joint estate, for example when they were contracted to pay for every-day expenses or when both parties agreed to take on the debts.


Separate estates

There is no joint ownership of goods or liability for debts in separate estates. The husband and wife retain individual ownership of their own property and manage it themselves. Nothing is divided up between the ex-husband and wife if the marriage ends. Separate estates can be established by a marriage contract. Marital agreements must be certified by a notary.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18.02.2015, 18:24
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA, former Zurich
Posts: 2,049
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 4,811 Times in 1,660 Posts
BokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Marriage contract useful?

Quote:
View Post
I think it is an excellent idea to understand the options before getting married. Like any contract, it is there for the possibility that things might go wrong which, as has been pointed out above, might not be in a separation or divorce, but could also be when death you doth part (and you or your spouse and your children, come to inherit).

I don't think contracts cast a bad light on any venture, not even a marriage. They are not unromantic, or unloving, or negative. Just very sensible. After all, this forum is full of threads, for example, by people trying to get out of a tenancy contract. And over and over and over again, the answer is: You are bound by what you signed.
Any contract is there, on paper, to help everyone understand, at the start, to what they are committing. And so they will know how to sort things out if the arrangement ever needs to end, be it with tears, or just with a hug and a handshake. In the same way, business partners who firmly believe that their new business has a good chance, also sign contracts... so that, if they ever need to split up, even for another successful projects, they will be able to refer to the contract to know how to do take their business apart with the minimum of damage to everyone.
I completely agree and could not have written it better. Love is wonderful and so is a well-thought out marriage contract. Note the emphasis on the word CONTRACT.

I wish more people realized that, while the two often co-exist nicely, they are inherently two separate things. Love does not need a marriage contract to be. Some would even argue that a marriage contract does not need love. I personally beg to differ on the latter, but I understand the rationale of the argument nonetheless.

The sooner people start thinking about what they sign up for in a rational way, the better. From the multi-year gym membership contract to the marriage contract.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank BokerTov for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cancelling Sunrise contract before end of contract suebigal Leaving Switzerland 17 11.09.2014 01:37
contract marriage Guest Daily life 11 09.07.2014 09:04
Porting a phone number mid-contract (small commercial contract with Sunrise) Nutz TV/internet/telephone 2 17.01.2014 21:15
Fixed contract is over, can i ask a higher salary for a new contract? vesna1985 Employment 3 28.06.2013 07:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0