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  #21  
Old 17.12.2007, 19:43
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

Daycare centers are quite expensive in CH, the reason being the high requirement on staff and m2 per child set by the authorities. As we all know those are two elements that don't come cheap in CH! What most families do, is that they opt for having the child in the center only part-time, e.g. two days a week and the mother working part-time. That way they keep the cost down and still keep a foot in their profession.
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  #22  
Old 18.12.2007, 10:24
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

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4. Finally, after 2.5 years on the waiting list for daycare, we get two full-time places from 1 October. After 4 weeks my son gets one viral infection after another and has now been out of daycare for 6 weeks. Ditto his sister. All of which we have to fully pay, of course, whether they are actually there or not. So we bring back the grannies temporarily, hire Chaperon Rouge to bridge 2-3 hours when we have to be in the office and use all our holidays to nurse sick children.

But that's the cost of raising children in a foreign country, I guess...
Sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience with childcare. I'm beginning to think we are plain lucky! I hope the situation gets better soon.

There is a silver lining to your No. 4 above, although it is a little obscure. Our patient paedatrician informed us after the umpteenth visit to sort out the next round of coughs, colds, viral infections of our son that, while it's unpleasant for him and worse for us to see him suffering one thing after another, these illnesses are not necessarily serious. In fact they are good in the sense that they develop his immune system. He reckoned on a period of about 2 years of on/off colds, etc. but then he should have a fighting fit childhood.

Hope this helps!

EDIT - sorry, forgot to say that you should be covered via sick leave to care for a sick child. You shouldn't use up your holidays for this.
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  #23  
Old 18.12.2007, 11:08
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

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EDIT - sorry, forgot to say that you should be covered via sick leave to care for a sick child. You shouldn't use up your holidays for this.
Actually this is quite limited in Switzerland. I think max 2 days and then it has to be holidays. Not sure if the same in all cantioons though

Cheers,
Cristina
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  #24  
Old 18.12.2007, 11:12
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

No, this has been discussed before and you have the legal right to take 3 days per instance as long as you can provide a doctors certificate. As it is stipulated in the law, it is the same in all cantons.

The thing that differs from canton to canton, is the total number of days in a year you will get paid in case your company doesn't have a Krankentaggeld Insurance.


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Actually this is quite limited in Switzerland. I think max 2 days and then it has to be holidays. Not sure if the same in all cantioons though

Cheers,
Cristina
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Old 18.12.2007, 11:48
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

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No, this has been discussed before and you have the legal right to take 3 days per instance as long as you can provide a doctors certificate. As it is stipulated in the law, it is the same in all cantons.

The thing that differs from canton to canton, is the total number of days in a year you will get paid in case your company doesn't have a Krankentaggeld Insurance.
While you are correct that 3 days per instance is stated in law and is valid for every canton there are some points to note.

1. You cannot rotate the same illness between husband and wife ie he does 3 days, she does 3 days and then repeat. Clearly the husband and the wife can rotate once. ie 3+3.

2. The total number of days in a year is not relevant for Krankentaggeldversicherung. The regulations state 720 days in 900 as the maximum and thereafter it falls into invalidity.

3. The variation from canton to canton you reference is the various "Lohnpflichttage" ie how many days the company is obliged to pay you 100% of your salary and this is per illness and yes this does vary.

4. The Krankentaggeld only applies after a set number of days(variable according to contract, but minimum of 3) and can extend this Lohnpflicht within the rules of 720 days in 900.

5. If the company does not have a collective insurance contract you can take out a voluntary insurance. It is then important to combine this with the health insurance and not take a freestanding insurance as this provides less cover.
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Old 18.12.2007, 11:51
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

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I have to work and besides want to work. We tried every possible model of childcare, as follows:

1. Nanny: it was a disaster, we did not want to hire illegally so we hire legally and, when we fire her because she was totally unreliable and inflexible, we end up in labour tribunal for abusive dismissal and settle with her for a hefty sum of CHF in compensation;

2. Maman du jour: absolutely no one wanted to take two children under 3 in full-time care;

3. Grandmas: my mother and mother-in-law alternated every three months. Worked for 1 year, then fatigue got better of them;

4. Finally, after 2.5 years on the waiting list for daycare, we get two full-time places from 1 October. After 4 weeks my son gets one viral infection after another and has now been out of daycare for 6 weeks. Ditto his sister. All of which we have to fully pay, of course, whether they are actually there or not. So we bring back the grannies temporarily, hire Chaperon Rouge to bridge 2-3 hours when we have to be in the office and use all our holidays to nurse sick children.

But that's the cost of raising children in a foreign country, I guess...
To your point 3, the biggest mistake is to take a non-qualified nanny. If you really do your research there are some really good nannies in Europe that would be more than happy to come and live in Geneve. They are not that cheap but do provide your child with a feeling of homeliness that day care can never provide. Going through an agency can provide you with a "guarantee" of replacement if you are not happy.

The break even point for a nanny is between 2 and 3 children depending on how many percent you both work and where you live. Expect your total nanny cost to be around the CHF 5K for 100% and pro rata for less...
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  #27  
Old 18.12.2007, 11:56
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

What is best for the child, a qualified nanny or a good day-care center, I is not a given thing though. Both nanny and day-care centers have their merits and what is good for one child and family isn't necessarily the best for another.


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To your point 3, the biggest mistake is to take a non-qualified nanny. If you really do your research there are some really good nannies in Europe that would be more than happy to come and live in Geneve. They are not that cheap but do provide your child with a feeling of homeliness that day care can never provide. Going through an agency can provide you with a "guarantee" of replacement if you are not happy.

The break even point for a nanny is between 2 and 3 children depending on how many percent you both work and where you live. Expect your total nanny cost to be around the CHF 5K for 100% and pro rata for less...
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  #28  
Old 18.12.2007, 12:26
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

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There is a silver lining to your No. 4 above, although it is a little obscure. Our patient paedatrician informed us after the umpteenth visit to sort out the next round of coughs, colds, viral infections of our son that, while it's unpleasant for him and worse for us to see him suffering one thing after another, these illnesses are not necessarily serious. In fact they are good in the sense that they develop his immune system. He reckoned on a period of about 2 years of on/off colds, etc. but then he should have a fighting fit childhood.

Hope this helps!

EDIT - sorry, forgot to say that you should be covered via sick leave to care for a sick child. You shouldn't use up your holidays for this.
I heard the same from many parents and paediatricians, and I indeed expected constant running noses and some fever, but we have been singularly unlucky: my son got the same stomach flu as every other child in the daycare, but it took him 2 weeks to stop vomiting and he was so dehydrated that we ended up in hospital. And immediately after that he caught a cold which became bronchitis which became pneumonia within days. So I agree that exposure to germs is useful, but this has been a bit too extreme for my taste.

Well, I have to use my annual leave because where I work you can not claim certified sick leave (only up to 3 consecutive days of uncertified sick leave and up to 6 days of family leave per year) to take care of a sick child, only if I myself get sick. Rules are different because I work for an international organisation, so Swiss labour law does not apply.
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  #29  
Old 18.12.2007, 12:51
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

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Well, I have to use my annual leave because where I work you can not claim certified sick leave (only up to 3 consecutive days of uncertified sick leave and up to 6 days of family leave per year) to take care of a sick child, only if I myself get sick. Rules are different because I work for an international organisation, so Swiss labour law does not apply.
I also work for an international company but they have to comply with Swiss law, just the same as the UK branch of us in London has to comply with UK law. I would check that detail out with your HR dept.
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Old 18.12.2007, 12:57
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

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If you really do your research there are some really good nannies in Europe that would be more than happy to come and live in Geneve. They are not that cheap but do provide your child with a feeling of homeliness that day care can never provide.
Perhaps there is a Mary Poppins out there, but I admit I don't have the stomach for this type of relationship and would perfer to avoid putting myself again in the position of an employer (if I can avoid it).

Quite contrary to your view, I tend to think of the whole concept of having a nanny as a necessary evil and I have more confidence in the state-supported daycare system. Why? Well, if a daycare staff looking after my child has an accident, falls ill or gets pregnant, it is not my problem, she will be replaced by someone else. There is a headmistress with whom I can always speak if I feel there are any problems and, in my experience, they listen to parents and all seem to be sincerely committed to their work.

I also for the first time in 5 years feel that we are part of the local community, because I see my children engaging in interaction with people outside their usual family circle, playing with other children and learning French instead of spending all their time with one person, no matter how kind or qualified they might be.

When my children are in daycare, I actually have the peace of mind that I never had when I had a nanny. Perhaps it is cultural, where I come from we think this is the best way.
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  #31  
Old 18.12.2007, 13:14
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

I'm not sure if it is cultural but I fully share your view regarding nanny vs. day-care. I much prefere a center for the same reasons you do.

The cultural bit may be that in central Europe the norm is that the mother is suppose to be at home and take care of the children and when she can't/doesn't want to ,the natural consequens would be to assume that the next best thing is someone else to stay at home with the child. I.e. "home" being the critical word here where as in other parts of Europe, "care", and to a certain extent "education", is the critical word.


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Perhaps there is a Mary Poppins out there, but I admit I don't have the stomach for this type of relationship and would perfer to avoid putting myself again in the position of an employer (if I can avoid it).

Quite contrary to your view, I tend to think of the whole concept of having a nanny as a necessary evil and I have more confidence in the state-supported daycare system. Why? Well, if a daycare staff looking after my child has an accident, falls ill or gets pregnant, it is not my problem, she will be replaced by someone else. There is a headmistress with whom I can always speak if I feel there are any problems and, in my experience, they listen to parents and all seem to be sincerely committed to their work.

I also for the first time in 5 years feel that we are part of the local community, because I see my children engaging in interaction with people outside their usual family circle, playing with other children and learning French instead of spending all their time with one person, no matter how kind or qualified they might be.

When my children are in daycare, I actually have the peace of mind that I never had when I had a nanny. Perhaps it is cultural, where I come from we think this is the best way.
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  #32  
Old 18.12.2007, 13:16
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

I really can't imagine that an organisation based in Switzerland would be exempt from Swiss law....


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Rules are different because I work for an international organisation, so Swiss labour law does not apply.
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  #33  
Old 25.01.2008, 20:20
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

I am a childminder in England also studying for a degree in early years care as a part of which I am doing a research project on the International Perspectives of Childminding and wonder if anyone one could help me. I would like to know about childminders ( I believe they are called Tagesmutters ) in Switzerland and who regulates them. Thanks
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  #34  
Old 25.01.2008, 20:42
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

Couldn't resist my two pennies worth on this one.....

I am the main worker in the family and yet as a woman here in Switzerland struggle with the childcare arrangements and prejudice that I find. Some examples - I had a bad back about a year ago. In the UK I got painkillers and thought it would be as straight forward here in Switzerland. On taking my medical history I was told that I should not be sitting at a desk all day but instead home with my children. No painkillers were prescribed until I would reduce my working hours (needless to say I got the drugs from the UK instead). A more recent example - I traveled last week for business - of course the children missed me as I did them but a small degree of travel is inevitable in my job. On returning the head of the kindergarten suggested that I shouldn't travel anymore because the children missed me. Its ok for Daddy to me away for two weeks at a time but not Mummy. They would not have said a word - and indeed never have - when my husband has traveled. It just adds to the guilt.

As for child care - I use a private kindergarten which costs a significant proportion of me net salary. In addition I have an help to collect the children because I do not want them to be the last ones there at 6pm. The cost together is ridiculous - and yet people think you are loaded! I received an offer from the local school to put them into Swiss education but could not manage with the hours - why would children of 5 years old have a 2 hour lunch break?

I moved my family to Switzerland with my job and for a better life. That comes at a much higher price than you would imagine. I find prejudice both in the work place and outside. Childcare and family support is incredibly difficult to find - we have been lucky to find two very good helps through this forum - but choice is few and far between. Switzerland I love but the prejudice against women in the work place - especially those working full time drives me nuts.
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Old 25.02.2008, 16:25
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

Hi
I have been here (Nyon, Vaud outside Geneva) for 7 months now and I love it here. But... if there is anything that could make me leave this country in an instant it would be this silly back striving childcare system that Switzerland has and believe me, I have many different countries to compare with.

I am Swedish and the Swedish childcare system is know to be one of the worlds most inexpensive and accessible ones. Maybe not one of the best quality but at least everyone has a chance to find daycare, kindergarten and school for their children without any HUGE expense or effort.

In New Zealand I found creche and daycare centers all over the place, paying by the hour, by the month or day, or week. Your choice. Not a huge expense there either. It seemed just easy to find the help you needed.

In the States I worked part time using daycare for full days for my daughter. No problems. Not cheap but not either expensive. The daycare centers were flexible with days and hours and as I worked in the restaurant business as a call-in, that worked perfect for me.

Back in Europe we ended up in Mallorca, Spain and I always said that the traffic would make me move as they drive like crazy people over there. And we did move after 4 years and 2 more kids. Got a great opportunity work wise for my husband and moved here. Not until we arrived here in Switzerland I realized how good the childcare system was in Mallorca.

Public school from 3 years old (like kindergarten) was free but you had to pay for lunch 4/day (my daughter went from 9 am - 4 pm Mon-Fri) and full time public daycare that I thought were expensive at the time but compared to the prices here was cheap as chips (300/month)! And that was including lunch with hours between 9am - 4pm. What a luxury!

Today my youngest is 9 months and I am preparing to get back to work and I just realize that it is going to be almost impossible with this silly "no-lunch" schedule they have in public schools, the 1-2 years of waiting for a spot in full time daycare and the cost!!!!

We calculated briefly on a full-time position in daycare (roughly 1800-2000CHF/month) with lunch included for our baby, outside-school services (for p/u and drop off, lunch and care after school ends at 3pm) for my daughter (almost 7) and my son (almost 4) and it came to a total of 2800CHF a month!!!! And as it looks like now, I won't even be able to take on a job as there are no daycare centers with openings for my baby girl...

I honestly feel trapped. I am trapped to be a stay at home mom, screaming and shouting to my kids because I need to be out there with adult people to keep my mind sane. I need the stimulation of a job, of doing something else than being a great mum, housewife and climbing the four walls of my home and have my life planned around drop off, pick up, grocery shopping, lunch making, cleaning up and entertainment of kids. I might sound like a bitter woman and right now in this moment I am, but most of the time I am happy and laughing and pulling it all off. But there is a limit to everything. I brought 3 fantastic kids to this world and I am proud of my accomplishment to the future, but right now I feel punished for making this choice.

Someone suggested I could became a Maman de jour (day mom) myself (as all the maman de jour in my area are full full full) but I wouldn't be a good maman de jour. I am tired of kids and I don't want to take care of other peoples kids. I want to do something for my creative mind (I AM a graphic designer... AND a mother AND a wife, daughter, friend, sister...)

So, if there is ANYTHING that can make me move from this beautiful, great outdoor life and fabulous nature country with this great climate it is this - the child care system that forces mothers to stay at home against our will even though we live in 2008 and not 1951. That is crazy to me...

A
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  #36  
Old 25.02.2008, 21:12
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

I would like to earn the same amount of money as before I had kids (net result - as in, after the cost of day care), have the same level of responsibility and respect, and have the kids happy and content, learning and with a good self esteem.

i also want a boat, a bigger car, chocolate moose with negative calories, to spend a year in an area with 24 hours of day and 24 hours of night... should I continue?

ooooooooooooo a flock of pigs!!!!
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  #37  
Old 02.04.2008, 16:06
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

Has anybody had any experience with Little Star Day School?
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  #38  
Old 02.04.2008, 16:19
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

Hello!
No direct experience but they have very high prices (yes, even higher ;-) ) at 150 CHF a day ...

Ciao
C
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  #39  
Old 02.04.2008, 22:07
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

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Has anybody had any experience with Little Star Day School?
My son used to go to Little Star in Wollishofen but that was a couple of years ago. I found them great, no complaints back then but I cannot vouch for them now.
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Old 19.08.2009, 00:55
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Re: Child care in Switzerland/Zurich

Hey everyone,

I have just been reading this thread and feel really stressed out i have been in switzerland for nearly 3years working as a nanny/cleaner/babysitter/cook/driver/ basically like marry poppins!! and thinking its time i started my own business, as there seems to be a lack of it i had thought a creche would be an idea?? but reading all of teh above, it doesnt seem worthwhile? i want to work in childcare in switzerland but something that i can have a decent wage at the end of the week!! Does having your own creche not become worthwhile in the long run?

Please Help

Laura
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