Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03.07.2019, 06:37
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: zugish
Posts: 134
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts
mossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeable
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I knew someone - in another country - who attended an AA meeting only once or twice, and didn't like it. However, that group openly declared that they also ran a kind of spin-off group, started especially for those who didn't like the structures and concepts of AA. So they said: "If you wanna leave, we understand. Some people like it here, some can't stand the way we do it. If you're leaving, please speak to Joe here, before you walk through that door, and maybe the spin-off group would be better for you."

The spin-off group had no formal program, and no reading of affirmations. It was about social support. That spin-off group went on hikes, to movies, on outings, and formed telephone links to help one another stay sober.

They formed "buddy" partners, and went along with one another to places and events that couldn't be avoided (difficult sibling's birthday party, horrible aunt's Christmas dinner, daughter's proud graduation, court-cases, clearing-out-of-offices after having been fired for drinking) and helped the person to stay sober. Sometimes, the Buddy came along into the event, at other times just parked outside in the car, and the alcoholic could walk outside, sit in the car, rave and let off steam about the difficult people inside, get a grip on themselves, and face the next hour, or be driven home safelyÖ without a drink.

Has anyone heard of anything like this in Switzerland, please?
I have been to meetings here where the discussion came up about the god thing and how some donít come back because of it.i never heard this but sounds interesting
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mossie for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 04.07.2019, 18:20
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,809
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,432 Times in 2,676 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

An atheist once told me that he hung in there and stayed with AA despite the talk of a "Higher Power".

He said that for him, alcohol had exercised a "Lower Power" over him, in that everything went downhill the more addicted he became.

So found a mental trick to re-frame the "Higher Power" away from its being a deity but simply into its being Sobriety in itself. Every time they read the affirmations/statements, he told himself that he would just focus on the goodness of Sobriety.

He said that since he had gotten drunk because of someone else's belief systems , he wasn't now going to make the same mistake. He stuck with the AA meetings, determined not to let some founder-members' personal belief systems get in his way of getting sober.

Last edited by doropfiz; 04.07.2019 at 19:13.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 04.07.2019, 20:06
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: zugish
Posts: 134
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts
mossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeable
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
An atheist once told me that he hung in there and stayed with AA despite the talk of a "Higher Power".

He said that for him, alcohol had exercised a "Lower Power" over him, in that everything went downhill the more addicted he became.

So found a mental trick to re-frame the "Higher Power" away from its being a deity but simply into its being Sobriety in itself. Every time they read the affirmations/statements, he told himself that he would just focus on the goodness of Sobriety.

He said that since he had gotten drunk because of someone else's belief systems , he wasn't now going to make the same mistake. He stuck with the AA meetings, determined not to let some founder-members' personal belief systems get in his way of getting sober.
I think itís all about finding what best works for you in AA, you donít have to take everything and your Higher Power does not have to be God. I guess it can be anything you believe in. Also I think it takes time to get your mind right to accept the situation and really do something. Generally I think most people drift in and out of AA or other programs for a year or two before the penny drops.

On another point even with my crappy German I was accepted for a rehab program here in Switzerland, so I need to decide if I want to go ahead with it.at least I got an option I didnít think was possible before.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank mossie for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 04.07.2019, 20:16
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 12,880
Groaned at 184 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 15,222 Times in 7,706 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Congrats, mossie!!!!

I cannot imagine what it's like. But you got the whole EF rooting for you here. It may be presumptious to claim so, but I think so. You can always write here, not only when you need support, but just to share. I am sure it will help a bunch of other folks, too. Thumbs up! Write away. Check on with us.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 05.07.2019, 01:40
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,809
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,432 Times in 2,676 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
On another point even with my crappy German I was accepted for a rehab program here in Switzerland, so I need to decide if I want to go ahead with it.at least I got an option I didnít think was possible before.
Wow, that's very good news.

What will influence your decision?
What would be good, or bad, for you, about going to that specific (or any) rehab programme?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 05.07.2019, 07:54
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: zugish
Posts: 134
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts
mossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeable
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Wow, that's very good news.

What will influence your decision?
What would be good, or bad, for you, about going to that specific (or any) rehab programme?
Hi thanks for kind words, in some ways it is easy decision to go and also difficult at the same time.

Right now I am sober for 24 days and feeling quite good with no real desire to drink so I ask myself do I need to go.

On the other hand I have been at this stage many times and due to stress or situations I drank or not even stressed, it can be due to being sober and I feel confident and then you feel ok to drink. When I do drink then it could be a week or it could be 5 before I find the control to stop and begin the sober path again.

The difference this time to other times is I see therapist regularly and engaged with my doctor for some craving medication.

What pushes me towards accepting this opportunity is that it may help me deal with situations and avoid relapsing. Maybe if I say Iím ok now then I can be back in six months at the same crossroads.

I am fully functioning but in last 2-3 years I felt I went from heavy social drinker to definite alcoholic, and if I continue this path I will no longer be fully functioning in another undefined period of time.

So at moment it is a decision,do I go with the hope this good period continues and perhaps it can be different to past attempts due to working with therapist now or do I just say what the hell go for it.

It is quite an experience to sit in a psychiatric hospital and talk to a doctor to say yes I need to check into the mad house perhaps but I found it quite a positive experience, not really what I thought it would be.

I will take this weekend to decide what to do.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank mossie for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 05.07.2019, 15:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,809
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,432 Times in 2,676 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

@mossie
Of course I can't really know how it is for you, but here are some ideas. Just ditch them if not applicable.

You've been sober for 24 days. Congratulations! Sobriety, long-term, solid, reliable sobriety happens, after all, one day at a time. In fact, one non-drinking moment at a time. From several of your posts, it sounds to me like you've managed this before (perhaps a bit longer, perhaps a bit less), and then got back into drinking because
  1. you thought you were stable enough to be able to manage "just one" (but then you weren't and drank too much again), or
  2. you felt stressed by external or maybe internal pressure (and reached for a drink to get you through that).


About the first:
It seems to me that each person has to sort out, emotionally, for themselves, whether the effect their drinking is having on their lives is
  • fine (no problems resulting from alcohol use, ever, so no need to change anything about what they do or don't drink), or
  • slightly troublesome (a bit annoying sometimes, but not so serious, need only a little discipline or some distraction to make it easy to stick to just one drink a week, or so), or
  • destructive enough (causing serious problems, be they personal and relational, psycholocial, social, financial, to do with employment, to do with physical health) to warrant ditching alcohol for ever.
Although I've read success stories from methods to pull back and reduce the amount on drinks, and then learn how to drink in moderation, (and that may indeed work for some!), personally I've never yet met an alcoholic who has been successful at just reducing. Not reliably and consistently so. Those alcoholics I know and who are wonderfully sober and confident of their permanent sobriety have all STOPPED consuming alcohol. Completely. Zero.


About the second:
You might be able to sort a lot out, while living at home, given that you have the support of a therapist, and medication, that you didn't have before. However, I doubt that it is possible to be you, just as you are now, only minus alcohol. I think it is more likely that, apart from changing your drinking-behaviour itself, you'll be needing to learn different ways of being you. You'll need new ways of either avoiding the stressors, or facing them more constructively, so that they no longer tend to set you drinking again.

I'm sure one can learn some of this in individual therapy. Yet in a good clinic, with a mix of group-therapies and individual therapies, and also through the conversations in the evenings, with the other patients, you get offered a kind of "buffet" of methods. You can try out activities you might not have done for years, or ever, and see whether any one or several of them can equip you to cope. Then, when you're back in Real Life, when faced with a situation that would formerly have triggered you to drink, you can, instead, pluck one of the methods you've learnt, (like a secret laser sword) and use that instead.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 06.07.2019, 13:19
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: zugish
Posts: 134
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts
mossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeable
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
@mossie
Of course I can't really know how it is for you, but here are some ideas. Just ditch them if not applicable.

You've been sober for 24 days. Congratulations! Sobriety, long-term, solid, reliable sobriety happens, after all, one day at a time. In fact, one non-drinking moment at a time. From several of your posts, it sounds to me like you've managed this before (perhaps a bit longer, perhaps a bit less), and then got back into drinking because
  1. you thought you were stable enough to be able to manage "just one" (but then you weren't and drank too much again), or
  2. you felt stressed by external or maybe internal pressure (and reached for a drink to get you through that).


About the first:
It seems to me that each person has to sort out, emotionally, for themselves, whether the effect their drinking is having on their lives is
  • fine (no problems resulting from alcohol use, ever, so no need to change anything about what they do or don't drink), or
  • slightly troublesome (a bit annoying sometimes, but not so serious, need only a little discipline or some distraction to make it easy to stick to just one drink a week, or so), or
  • destructive enough (causing serious problems, be they personal and relational, psycholocial, social, financial, to do with employment, to do with physical health) to warrant ditching alcohol for ever.
Although I've read success stories from methods to pull back and reduce the amount on drinks, and then learn how to drink in moderation, (and that may indeed work for some!), personally I've never yet met an alcoholic who has been successful at just reducing. Not reliably and consistently so. Those alcoholics I know and who are wonderfully sober and confident of their permanent sobriety have all STOPPED consuming alcohol. Completely. Zero.


About the second:
You might be able to sort a lot out, while living at home, given that you have the support of a therapist, and medication, that you didn't have before. However, I doubt that it is possible to be you, just as you are now, only minus alcohol. I think it is more likely that, apart from changing your drinking-behaviour itself, you'll be needing to learn different ways of being you. You'll need new ways of either avoiding the stressors, or facing them more constructively, so that they no longer tend to set you drinking again.

I'm sure one can learn some of this in individual therapy. Yet in a good clinic, with a mix of group-therapies and individual therapies, and also through the conversations in the evenings, with the other patients, you get offered a kind of "buffet" of methods. You can try out activities you might not have done for years, or ever, and see whether any one or several of them can equip you to cope. Then, when you're back in Real Life, when faced with a situation that would formerly have triggered you to drink, you can, instead, pluck one of the methods you've learnt, (like a secret laser sword) and use that instead.

@doropfiz, thanks for taking time to write your thoughts and it is clear from this post and on the other thread that you have a lot ok knowledge about this subject and you really hit the nail on the head.


Like everybody who faces this situation I have in the past tried moderation and I could manage it a few times but unfortunately this is short lived and after a few successful attempts then back to old ways.


I spent a lot of time at the slightly troublesome phase but it moved onto the destructive phase but even at that I would not say I am the most destructive drunk around but aware that the situation is deteriorating after every relapse.


One thing I managed to learn a bit recently was not to compare myself to others or the stereotypical alcoholic hiding bottles at home which I don't do or drinking a bottle of gin for breakfast which I don't do.


When you use this comparison you will always mange to find a worse case than you and think your not so bad and avoid the reality. So then after a fairly recent relapse and struggle to get back to the sober world and some advice I stopped comparing myself and asked why am I going to AA, seeing therapist , asking myself have I a problem then things become easier to rationalize.


As you say I can achieve so much by myself and with a therapist etc but to really learn how to deal with triggers going to a proper treatment program will give me hopefully better ability to do this in the long term.


Anyhow I decided yesterday to go ahead with the treatment as I am afraid if I don't do now I will be back in six moths asking myself the same questions.


So once I sort out some paperwork and other things I hope to begin the middle of August with it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mossie for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 06.07.2019, 14:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,809
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,432 Times in 2,676 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

mossie, you are BRAVE!

Do you have questions about the paperwork, that perhaps we could help you with?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 06.07.2019, 14:39
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: zugish
Posts: 134
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts
mossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeable
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
mossie, you are BRAVE!

Do you have questions about the paperwork, that perhaps we could help you with?
Well I spoke to my health insurance and the psychiatrist at the hospital I had meeting with on Thursday must fill in document and send it to my health insurance to see if they agree to be attending the program.

He will do on Monday to get ball rolling as I may be able to start there middle of August if everything goes according to plan so letís see and hopefully it goes ok.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06.07.2019, 14:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,809
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,432 Times in 2,676 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Oh, yes, that's pretty standard. The pre-approval by the health insurance is called a "Kostengutsprache" (literally: cost good speak). It is likely to be granted.

If, however, it is not, at first, do not fear. Then the psychiatrist (and perhaps your G.P.) will need to write a report in which they state
  • diagnosis
  • progression till now
  • suitability of treatment program
  • prognosis with the hospitalisation
  • what could be expected/feared if treatment is not undertaken.

It is often this last point that makes things happen.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 06.07.2019, 14:50
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: zugish
Posts: 134
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts
mossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeable
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Oh, yes, that's pretty standard. The pre-approval by the health insurance is called a "Kostengutsprache" (literally: cost good speak). It is likely to be granted.

If, however, it is not, at first, do not fear. Then the psychiatrist (and perhaps your G.P.) will need to write a report in which they state
  • diagnosis
  • progression till now
  • suitability of treatment program
  • prognosis with the hospitalisation
  • what could be expected/feared if treatment is not undertaken.

It is often this last point that makes things happen.
Yes correct that is the form I spoke to the insurance about and the doctor about yesterday.

I was wondering as I have not really needed to get medical attention in Switzerland if it is straight forward or not but letís see.

Thanks for the info
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mossie for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 06.07.2019, 19:10
stephinzug's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: zug
Posts: 116
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 33 Times in 11 Posts
stephinzug has made some interesting contributions
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

My sister-in-law went to a clinic in Mallorca as she felt much more comfortable being abroad and having some 'distance' from people she knew in Switzerland. I think it wasn't cheap (around 10K) but so far it seems to have worked (she's now an ex alcoholic and attends AA meetings there). It has been 2 years now and her life has completely changed. I can ask my husband for more info if you're interested.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank stephinzug for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 06.07.2019, 19:16
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: zugish
Posts: 134
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts
mossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeable
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
My sister-in-law went to a clinic in Mallorca as she felt much more comfortable being abroad and having some 'distance' from people she knew in Switzerland. I think it wasn't cheap (around 10K) but so far it seems to have worked (she's now an ex alcoholic and attends AA meetings there). It has been 2 years now and her life has completely changed. I can ask my husband for more info if you're interested.
Thanks for the info, i have decided to do my treatment here but I will keep it in mind if for some reason it doesnít happen here👍🙏
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mossie for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 11.07.2019, 11:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich
Posts: 673
Groaned at 65 Times in 43 Posts
Thanked 340 Times in 197 Posts
Focus has earned some respectFocus has earned some respect
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

The people who put AA together 70 years ago had been in touch with Carl Jung. There was a lot of thought behind it and they were way ahead of their time.

In regard to the God thing. One of the major issues people have who are addicts is anxiety. People who have anxiety have a hard a time to let go and trust especially in themselves. So with God you can let go. Maybe eventually you can learn to trust in yourself and let go to yourself.

Also many addicts in the begiining will come up with many issues as a form of distraction. Amazing the games our brains can play on us. When I was in univerrsity studying for an exam I would begin to clean and convinced myself that it was needed to be done at that time. I know now it was a distraction from what I needed to do. The only thing a reecovering addict should focus on is not drinking. Some addicts even decide to quit smoking shortly after but the stress becomes too much and they slip.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Focus for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 16.07.2019, 06:44
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: zugish
Posts: 134
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 46 Posts
mossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeablemossie is considered knowledgeable
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

I got all my health insurance things sorted so I will check into rehab August 12th
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank mossie for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 16.07.2019, 15:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,809
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,432 Times in 2,676 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Drug/alcohol Rehab in Switzerland

Excellent news! This is a brave step, and I admire you for this.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alcohol, drugs, rehabilitation, youth health




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
alcohol free beer in switzerland newstudent Food and drink 15 20.01.2015 23:19
Psychiatrist specialising in addiction (Switzerland) - Rehab Victoria2010 Family matters/health 4 01.12.2013 13:03
Bringing alcohol to Switzerland Begga Food and drink 17 31.05.2010 17:24
Monitoring drug usage via sewers (in Switzerland) cyrus Other/general 4 20.06.2007 22:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0