Don't be silly, looking at a few anti-vaccine sites isn't research, it's just you trying to find some justification to endanger your child, other children, and as yet unborn children in pregnant mothers.
And I bet they don't mention the last in your 'research'.

That sounds like a much more exciting way of bringing up a child. Any elevated temperature could mean "impending death" - which would mean an almost monthly panic that a child is going to die.

That sound like brilliant fun.

Are you qualified to research? Surfing the internet is not research.
I'm not. But my concerns go beyond those of my immediate family.

• I'm afraid that because of people like you who flaunt their ignorance as bravery, a child who cannot be vaccinated for various reasons, will become very ill and be damaged for life or even die.
• I'm afraid for your children, who, if they come into contact with these diseases (perhaps from other ignorant parents' kids), will become very ill and be damaged for life, or even die.
• I'm afraid that if your monumentally ill-informed view becomes prevalent many more children will become very ill and be damaged for life or even die.

Is that clear enough?

__________________
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Click on the link. Think "mildly interesting". Buy ticket.... Be entertained. And enjoy the Basel Weihnachtsmarkt.

While others go backwards.

Frankly, in this case I would say you already follow the crowds. Those crowds who are against immunisation, for reasons known only by them.

Why are you looking for both pro-vax and anti-vax doctors? Do you think there's some kind of legitimate debate with two sides that you want to research? Do you think that because your doctor is exclusively pro-vax he/she must be ignorant or dismissive of some aspect of the science? The overwhelming majority of doctors are in favour of vaccinations not because they are inherently 'pro-vax', but because they have completed years of training in their field which has led them to the conclusion that vaccines are safe and hugely beneficial.

The fact that it's so hard to find an 'anti-vax' doctor should tell you something about the consensus among medical professionals. Some people still think the Earth is flat. Does this mean the issue is open to discussion? No, because there is an overwhelming body of evidence proving that the Earth is round.

The most high-profile anti-vax doctor is one Dr. Andrew Wakefield, who had his medical licence revoked when it was found that he fabricated results while trying to show a link between vaccines and autism.

I'm only a newbie so I haven't seen this before, but as others have mentioned, this topic has already been discussed extensively on EF.

What next? Looking for advice on a garage that sells cars without seatbelts?

Mazda and Honda dealer does.

MURDERERS!!!!!

That's why I'm searching for a real doctor. Just to hear with my own ears both parts of the story.

I'm not convinced of answers like: " your child or others will die if you don't vaccinate".

What would help more is:
- probability of getting disease without vaccination
- probability of getting the same disease with vaccination (as my understanding is vaccine doesn't protect 100%)
- probability of being seriously damaged by the disease (as just getting it doesn't 100% mean you're damaged for life)
- probably of getting damaged by the vaccine (and let's ignore autism as this is not the only damage brought in by the anti-vaccine)

Another serious question is what would be the motivation of the anti-vaccine movement. There are scientists supporting it and I repeat, I don't consider them stupid by default (especially because I don't have the right education to judge them).

And was in the pay of solicitors who were acting for families whose children have autism.

However, the anti-vaxxers consider him a hero, who has been conspired against by corrupt big pharma, pro-vaxx doctors and various governments. But to paraphrase Ben Goldacre, the fact that big pharma is a bit crap and charge a fortune doesn't mean their products don't work.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-35975011

I think this is all flaring up again as Andrew Wakefield (d.i.c.) has a film out:

Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe

Unfortunately, certain people are going to see this as non-fiction.

The guy is certainly deluded.

...and was involved in developing an alternative measles vaccine...

Dead and seriously ill kids less convincing than probabilities - I can't even.

See that's part of your problem; you're assuming there is a balanced debate between vaccination and non-vaccination. There isn't. On one hand here is an overwhelming body of evidence that says vaccines are safe, reliable and effective. On the other hand, you have a handful of "experts" who promote untested and unproven alternatives that are, coincidentally, available from their on-line store. cough Joseph Mercola cough.

I think you should direct your 'research' to the medical community on a medical forum, and I do hope you don't let your opinion cloud your judgement.


I wasn't vaccinated as a child owing to a group of allergies I was born with. The first attempts to vaccinate me as a baby produced such severe results and reactions, that my GP refused to administer further vaccines, and took several secondary opinions on this from experts in this field at the time. This did limit some small aspects of my childhood, mainly that I couldn't travel abroad because (at the time - back in the early 70's) many countries required vaccinations. I was always told that I would gradually grow out of most of the allergies, but the two that remain are general anaesthetic and certain types of 100% polyester clothing.


In my late 20's, I needed a tetanus. The hospital checked my medical records and did a number of blood tests before proceeding with a staggered, low dosage course of injections. Each one had to be monitored with repeated visits to my doctor, before the next was administered. It was a complete ball ache, but the only way to proceed according to the professionals.


Also in my late 20's, I nursed my (then) husband when he had German Measles and it was bloody scary! If you catch this disease as an adult, it's like being hit by a train. You're completely out of it for up to a week, and it takes ages to fully recover from.


To summise:

I wasn't vaccinated but that was based upon solid reasons and evidence and a known medical condition.


If I had a child, I would be 100% in favour of vaccinating my child. Besides the rates of infant and child mortality caused by misguided parents refusing to have their children vaccinated, I've seen first hand the effects these diseases have on an adult who contracts them.

That would be asking a lot of info from a regular GP, what you need is probably an epidemiologist.

Yes, I do know someone who hasn't vaccinated their child, and I think they're irresponsible idiots.
w- probability of getting disease without vaccination

x- probability of getting the same disease with vaccination (as my understanding is vaccine doesn't protect 100%)

y- probability of being seriously damaged by the disease (as just getting it doesn't 100% mean you're damaged for life)

z- probably of getting damaged by the vaccine (and let's ignore autism as this is not the only damage brought in by the anti-vaccine)

w,x,y and z are all very low, but:
w is very much greater than x
and y is very much greater than z

Which is exactly why vaccinations are recommended at the individual level.

As mentioned already, with high levels of immunity in the population, the disease is unable to spread when it does occur (in people who due to age or health conditions cannot be immunised). Since the spread of disease is halted before it gets to them, those who are not immune (due to age or health conditions) are also protected.

When you don't have the right education to judge between the views of two groups of experts, the sensible, rational thing to do is go with the consensus - and vaccinate your children. Anything else is just stupid.

__________________
http://baselpanto.org/tickets

Click on the link. Think "mildly interesting". Buy ticket.... Be entertained. And enjoy the Basel Weihnachtsmarkt.

There are one or two on here. You tend to find they're the same ones that believe in Chemtrails and homeopathy.

Out of interest, do you apply probability reasoning to all other aspects of your life?

Probability of dying in a car (automobile) accident?
Probability of dying on a bicycle?
Probability of slipping over and fatally banging head whilst putting socks on in the morning? (this is actually relatively common and you should be very afraid of socks).