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  #41  
Old 19.05.2016, 17:55
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

In Switzerland if you order a gin and tonic and they ask "ice and lemon?" the first thing you do is ask how much extra it will cost. I can imagine the dentist saying something like "I can't do it today but I could fit you in late this evening, ok?" and when you say yes you're agreeing to whatever they want to charge you.
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  #42  
Old 19.05.2016, 17:59
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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So we are in the business of just choosing the historical exchange rate that makes the prices in Switzerland look the most reasonable?
Swiss prices (and salaries) haven't changed in 20 years, and that was the rate at the time (ten years ago).

Tom
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  #43  
Old 19.05.2016, 17:59
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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So we are in the business of just choosing the historical exchange rate that makes the prices in Switzerland look the most reasonable?
Reasonable to whom? To the Swiss they are reasonable after looking at the bank-account where the salary came in. All the others who supply/serve/treat me want that salary too you see (weird, eih?)
Even though I'm all for "you can have it all", even I have to realize in some cases I can't
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  #44  
Old 19.05.2016, 18:05
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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Hey there, a private dentist was recently recommendent to my parents and since my dad had a wisdom tooth that was hurting a bit he decided to visit him.

The dentist did 3D x-rays and decided to just remove his tooth which my parents found weird because that is usually the last thing they want to here but they went along with it.

There was no "devis" for the procedure so they had no idea how much it was gonna be but the doctor had asked for 300 chf after the procedure so they thought it was about right. They were thinking something in the 300-500 chf maximum from experience.

Well this week they received a bill and they have something like 1000 chf to pay + the 300 chf they have already paid.

The expenses were something like this:
Diagnostic: 200 chf
Urgency hours: 200 chf
Xrays: 300 chf
Diagnostic: 200 chf (for another tooth when he went in the day before receiving the bill)
etc...

The prices are just outright absurd and they got pretty much ripped off and they've no idea how to handle the situation, if there is anything to do besides paying.

Also the thing with the urgency hours, they also got ripped off there because the doctor, being such "a busy man" could only do the surgery at 11pm/midnight which wasn't my dad's choice since he could do it during the day, but he went along with it. Even that is costing them 200 chf x 2 which is completely insane.

My dad called him and the whole response from the dentist was pretty much that there isn't anything to do and the prices are justified and he has to pay.

They were so stunned by the whole ordeal and their lack of responsibility that they've just been depressed, but I think there must be a way to contest it since the whole thing is so incredibly shady. If there are people on this forum much better informed than me that can help with the situation and give suggestions it would be very much appreciated, thanks.
So lets see. Your dad "went along" with the following:
  1. Having a tooth removed even though he thought it was strange and unnecessary?
  2. Having a surgery at 11pm, even though he thought it was strange and irregular?

Seems age and wisdom are not necessarily connected. He could easily have checked out a couple of other dentists before committing.
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  #45  
Old 19.05.2016, 18:32
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

Sorry folks, back just for a few minutes. I haven't even had time to wade through the whole thread.

OP, without all the details of the invoice I cannot say much. What I need for assessing a complete breakdown is the tariff points (points tarifaires in French) and insurance code number (chiffre, always something like 4XYZ, for instance 4004 for an examination between 8 p.m. and 7 a.m.) of each position in the invoice.

Without that, all I can say is, it's very difficult to pile up what you called "urgency hours" to reach CHF 200, and those diagnostic expenses look pretty questionable too. And billing night hours because the dentist could not make it otherwise sounds not exactly bullet-proof either.

Of course any patient can ask for an estimate at any time. In many cases, for obvious reasons, an estimate cannot always be reliable, because certain issues may surface during the procedure. However, when an estimate was given, on request the dentist has to clearly justify deviations of more than about +15%.

Besides that, every canton has kind of a dental tariff assessment committee that can be addressed whenever a patient thinks there's something really fishy. You can find the address for Geneva here: https://www.sso.ch/fileadmin/upload_...arif/ZBK_F.pdf .

Please note that is meant to be used only if attempts to settle the issue with the dentist / oral surgeon have entirely failed. It may cause additional fees if the inquiry is deemed totally unjustified.

A brief remark to those who now seem to be bawling out the OP's dad for not having asked for an estimate etc.: Please consider the situation he was in. If you are in severe pain you may have other concerns than administrative or legal questions. It's a matter of basic decency on the part of the doctor to take that into account by not exploiting it.
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  #46  
Old 19.05.2016, 18:36
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

Unfortunately dentistry in Switzerland is very expensive, so the amount of money for the wisdom tooth is about right..

My advice - never let a dentist start his work before he tells you at least approximately how much it will cost !

As for the wisdom tooth, it was probably impacted or sub-impacted, which has no good purpose. Eventually such impacted teeth may cause problems. So thats why they usually get extracted right away.

Extraction is the last thing done for all teeth except the wisdom teeth. Wisdom teeth have purposes only if they are in a proper position and can be used for prosthetics (prosthodontics)
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  #47  
Old 19.05.2016, 18:47
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

I had all four of my wisdom teeth taken out under general anaes anas aneas while I was asleep. It was free. You can't really knock the NHS.
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  #48  
Old 19.05.2016, 19:10
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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I had all four of my wisdom teeth taken out under general anaes anas aneas while I was asleep. It was free. You can't really knock the NHS.
General Ananas? Is that you with a few friends, waiting for the dentist to turn up?
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  #49  
Old 20.05.2016, 10:13
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

Youngster (OP), just in case you are reluctant to expose details of the invoice your dad got, which I can understand: I just added you to my contacts list so you can send me a private message if you prefer that.
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Old 20.05.2016, 10:22
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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I had all four of my wisdom teeth taken out under general anaes anas aneas while I was asleep.
Did you originally go in to get a broken arm looked at?
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  #51  
Old 20.05.2016, 10:27
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

English Forum has made me very crude!


I immediately jumped into the thread after reading it as


"Private dentist ripped off my pants"


Oh dear me...
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  #52  
Old 20.05.2016, 14:50
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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Hey there, a private dentist was recently recommendent to my parents and since my dad had a wisdom tooth that was hurting a bit he decided to visit him

Well this week they received a bill and they have something like 1000 chf to pay + the 300 chf they have already paid.

The expenses were something like this:
Diagnostic: 200 chf
Urgency hours: 200 chf
Xrays: 300 chf
Diagnostic: 200 chf (for another tooth when he went in the day before receiving the bill)
etc...

The prices are just outright absurd and they got pretty much ripped off and they've no idea how to handle the situation, if there is anything to do besides paying.

Also the thing with the urgency hours, they also got ripped off there because the doctor, being such "a busy man" could only do the surgery at 11pm/midnight which wasn't my dad's choice since he could do it during the day, but he went along with it. Even that is costing them 200 chf x 2 which is completely insane.

My dad called him and the whole response from the dentist was pretty much that there isn't anything to do and the prices are justified and he has to pay.
If you can, try to source a good dentist across the border In Germany. The prices there are are a fraction of the costs here in Switzerland. They certainly don`t charge 270 euros for an xray. Although I understand that this is hard when you have an emergency. The german dentist I visit even works on a temp basis in Switzerland but then charges and earns a lot more.
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  #53  
Old 20.05.2016, 15:03
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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If you can, try to source a good dentist across the border In Germany. The prices there are are a fraction of the costs here in Switzerland. They certainly don`t charge 270 euros for an xray. Although I understand that this is hard when you have an emergency. The german dentist I visit even works on a temp basis in Switzerland but then charges and earns a lot more.
Germany is a pretty long way over the border if you are based in Geneva as is the case for the OP.
Finding a dentist in France on the other hand is a more feasible course of action.
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  #54  
Old 20.05.2016, 15:25
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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If you can, try to source a good dentist across the border In Germany. The prices there are are a fraction of the costs here in Switzerland. They certainly don`t charge 270 euros for an xray.
No dentist in Switzerland charges EUR 270 for an ordinary x-ray either, not even CHF 270. That's the top of the tariff range for special panoramic and 3D techniques, which are pretty expensive in other countries too. A normal x-ray costs around CHF 20, usually less. If more, the doorknobs are gold-plated.

Last year, an American dental surgeon tried to talk my OH into a panoramic x-ray for $480, with no medical justification. Now that's what I call a real rip-off. It was a one-tooth problem; pans are for both jaws in the same picture from behind the ear all the way round to behind the other ear, up to 32 teeth in an adult, and that at much lower resolution than a regular x-ray.
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Last edited by Captain Greybeard; 20.05.2016 at 15:44. Reason: 32 teeth added!
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  #55  
Old 20.05.2016, 16:10
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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"Private dentist ripped off my pants"

I'm your private dentist, dentist for money....



Ok, I'll get my coat.
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Old 20.05.2016, 16:30
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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Unfortunately dentistry in Switzerland is very expensive, so the amount of money for the wisdom tooth is about right..

My advice - never let a dentist start his work before he tells you at least approximately how much it will cost !

As for the wisdom tooth, it was probably impacted or sub-impacted, which has no good purpose. Eventually such impacted teeth may cause problems. So thats why they usually get extracted right away.

Extraction is the last thing done for all teeth except the wisdom teeth. Wisdom teeth have purposes only if they are in a proper position and can be used for prosthetics (prosthodontics)

This sounds a bit odd - surely the "sub" is redundant in this phrasing as an impacted tooth is tooth that's not all the way through the gum therefore "sub" anyway.


And according to my dentist they do everything they CAN do before extracting a wisdom tooth because of potential complications.
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Old 20.05.2016, 16:44
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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This sounds a bit odd - surely the "sub" is redundant in this phrasing as an impacted tooth is tooth that's not all the way through the gum therefore "sub" anyway.
You might think so but to me "impacted" means one tooth has an impact on another and doesn't necessarily imply that it has not broken through the gum or or only partially through. Maybe "sub" above meant root impaction. In any case, "sub" to me would mean completely underneath not "not all the way through".
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Old 20.05.2016, 16:49
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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You might think so but to me "impacted" means one tooth has an impact on another and doesn't necessarily imply that it has not broken through the gum or or only partially through. Maybe "sub" above meant root impaction. In any case, "sub" to me would mean completely underneath not "not all the way through".


Nope. As far as I remember conversations with my dentist and my Mum (35 years as a dental/max fax nurse) the impaction is to do with the tooth not coming all the way through because they other teeth have an impact upon it: wisdom teeth are generally the last through and there may not be much room because of all the other teeth. Plus, if you google "sub impacted wisdom teeth" as I just did, you get directed to impacted teeth. The sub appears to be redundant.
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Old 20.05.2016, 17:14
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

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You might think so but to me "impacted" means one tooth has an impact on another and doesn't necessarily imply that it has not broken through the gum or or only partially through. Maybe "sub" above meant root impaction. In any case, "sub" to me would mean completely underneath not "not all the way through".
"Impacted" has very little to do with "having an impact on something." Otherwise it would be called "impacting." "Impacted" means something is deeply entrenched. It comes from Latin impingere (past participle impactus), meaning to drive or pound something into something else (= the bone), to make something stick in something (ditto).

An embedded tooth is a tooth that, for some reason, doesn't erupt into the mouth although there is no issue with obstacles.

An impacted tooth is a tooth that cannot erupt because its direction of eruption is blocked by a neighboring tooth. It may or may not have an "impact" on its neighbor(s).

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The sub appears to be redundant.
Not quite. A sub-impacted tooth partially erupted but then got blocked by neighboring hard-tissue structures (another tooth, bone due to lack of space etc.). The "sub" admittedly is not a very clever way to make that clear. Calling it "semi-impacted" would be better.
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Old 20.05.2016, 17:20
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Re: Private dentist ripped off my parents

Thank you Captain! I should have listened harder to my mum, clearly. But I'm squeamish...
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