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Old 29.08.2016, 14:12
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The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

I have been tasked with helping someone find out the skinny on pre-nups in Switzerland. The other major thread I could find was here Prenuptial Agreement, but it didn't really contain that much useful info and is now 6 years old.

So, my focused questions to anyone who can provide solid advice on these issues are:

1) Are pre-nups really worth the paper they are written on with regards to protecting your assets?
2) If so, is whatever is written in them legally binding as long as it does not contravene minimum legal rights and statutory requirements etc?
3) If the pre-nup is done properly and each individual is granted their own legal counsel and signs with zero pressure and all of the information at their disposal, can that pre-nup be contested later down the line if one of the parties sees fit to do so (going back to point 1 I guess)? I take it one of the people can be sued?

Resources I have checked to research and also sent to said tasker are:

http://www.international-divorce.com...witzerland.htm
http://www.switzerland-family-office...greements.html
http://www.internationalprenuptials....itzerland.html

To me it looks like the three questions pretty much sum it up, but I just want to make sure by asking some of you folks who know this kind of stuff.

Cheers,

Rich.
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Old 29.08.2016, 14:16
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

A mate eh?

Congratulations by the way
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Old 29.08.2016, 14:18
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

And who said romance was dead?
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Old 29.08.2016, 14:19
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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A mate eh?

Congratulations by the way
I won't be getting married for some years given my own personal views on it, of that I'm quite sure.
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Old 30.08.2016, 00:14
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

Is a prenup really necessary if they go with the seperation of assets marriage regime? Isn't anything before marriage already protected? And what if they moved or divorced in another country? Would this be a way out of the prenup?

I think pension is always split unless they both agree at the time of divorce not to split it. But again only what has been added during the marriage.

Probably best they not get married.....
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Old 30.08.2016, 00:27
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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Is a prenup really necessary if they go with the seperation of assets marriage regime? Isn't anything before marriage already protected? And what if they moved or divorced in another country? Would this be a way out of the prenup?

I think pension is always split unless they both agree at the time of divorce not to split it. But again only what has been added during the marriage.

Probably best they not get married.....
Quite. If your friend seems so unsure of his/herself and their financial situation in case of a future divorce, is it really worth bothering getting married at all?
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Old 30.08.2016, 07:01
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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I have been tasked with helping someone find out the skinny on pre-nups in Switzerland. The other major thread I could find was here Prenuptial Agreement, but it didn't really contain that much useful info and is now 6 years old.

So, my focused questions to anyone who can provide solid advice on these issues are:

1) Are pre-nups really worth the paper they are written on with regards to protecting your assets?
2) If so, is whatever is written in them legally binding as long as it does not contravene minimum legal rights and statutory requirements etc?
3) If the pre-nup is done properly and each individual is granted their own legal counsel and signs with zero pressure and all of the information at their disposal, can that pre-nup be contested later down the line if one of the parties sees fit to do so (going back to point 1 I guess)? I take it one of the people can be sued?

Resources I have checked to research and also sent to said tasker are:

http://www.international-divorce.com...witzerland.htm
http://www.switzerland-family-office...greements.html
http://www.internationalprenuptials....itzerland.html

To me it looks like the three questions pretty much sum it up, but I just want to make sure by asking some of you folks who know this kind of stuff.

Cheers,

Rich.
Agreements are there to be respected, but judges are obviously allowed to interpret. It all goes down to which judge and which jurisdiction is applying when the prenuptial needs to be enforced. You do not have risk zero, and when entering into marriage, and getting out of it, the judge can legally interpret on anything that was not included at the agreement and believe me, it is impossible to include everything or to think beforehand on the possible outcomes.

Usual separation of assets regime is fine for 'average' and 'high' incomes and assets, under most jurisdictions and for sure in Switzerland and Europe. Prenuptials are not helping further unless there is an important capital at stake, so used only for substantial wealth protection. Still, as said, the agreement will be interpreted especially on adjusting the living standard for the lower asset party. The fact a prenuptial is existing usually limits the amounts enforced by court on fortune split and sets a precedent of understanding by the lower asset party for a judgement lowering the amount to be compensated. But it does not guarantee a fixed compensation, or none at all.
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Last edited by suissa; 30.08.2016 at 07:06. Reason: clarify terms
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Old 30.08.2016, 07:34
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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I won't be getting married for some years given my own personal views on it, of that I'm quite sure.
You'd have us believe it's your choice, then?
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Old 30.08.2016, 13:51
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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You'd have us believe it's your choice, then?
Wouldnt bother getting married then if you need this, its like saying its doomed to begin with
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Old 30.08.2016, 14:54
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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Wouldnt bother getting married then if you need this, its like saying its doomed to begin with
my thoughts exactly, she gets everything anyway, signed contract or not.
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Old 30.08.2016, 15:28
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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I won't be getting married for some years given my own personal views on it, of that I'm quite sure.
Wise man.

Have to say I'm a bit conflicted about this issue. I'm all for to each his own and on principle I'd be very uncomfortable "fleecing" Trollefar if we got divorced, but having had to quit a promising career to come here and watch the fort at home while he's having a great career and travelling around, I would think it very unfair if he ran off without some kind of compensation.

But then again, on principle (and like most people where I'm from if you look at the statistics) I'm against marriage if there are no kids or residency permit considerations in the picture.
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Old 30.08.2016, 15:46
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

A pre-nup can be about much more than division of assets. It's perfectly normal in Germany to sign a marriage contract that can lay out a host of things -- even down to how much each of the married couple will work, where and how any children will be educated, what happens to the children in the event of divorce, and of course how assets would be divided should the marriage end in divorce. It can also set out the procedures to be followed in the event of the death of one of the spouses.

Such contracts, while to my mind sometimes ridiculously prescriptive, can be very useful if it all goes tits up. They're not as commonplace in Switzerland as they are in Germany, though.
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Old 30.08.2016, 15:50
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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A pre-nup can be about much more than division of assets. It's perfectly normal in Germany to sign a marriage contract that can lay out a host of things -- even down to how much each of the married couple will work, where and how any children will be educated, what happens to the children in the event of divorce, and of course how assets would be divided should the marriage end in divorce. It can also set out the procedures to be followed in the event of the death of one of the spouses.

Such contracts, while to my mind sometimes ridiculously prescriptive, can be very useful if it all goes tits up. They're not as commonplace in Switzerland as they are in Germany, though.
Sounds extremely prescriptive, as you put it, and not very practical in a time when life situations change quickly. We'd be redrafting the damned thing every year or so...

But as you correctly say again, if things go south it probably provides good guidance. In our case we had nothing when we got married, it would be only faire to split everything. On the other hand, how to deal with the Troll and agree on remaining in the same country as the other could easily become problematic if the conflict was bad.

Thank you for reminding me that we need to draft wills, btw...
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Old 30.08.2016, 17:17
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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Quite. If your friend seems so unsure of his/herself and their financial situation in case of a future divorce, is it really worth bothering getting married at all?
Well, I and many people I have had this discussion with think this is such an outmoded, impractical way of thinking. The fact is, despite best intentions and feelings of steadfast endless love you simply can not predict the future, and there is nothing wrong with someone protecting their assets for the possibility that things go belly up and sour. We all know the divorce rates nowadays, almost half of marriages end in divorce at some point down the line, and to stick your head in the sand and ignore them and pretend nothing will ever happen while living in care bear land is nothing short of negligent.

And from the chats I have had they are sure they want to get married, but not without taking some precautions.

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my thoughts exactly, she gets everything anyway, signed contract or not.
Sure, slammer.

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Wise man.
I come from a family of several separations and divorces, and also multiple friends who have been through the same. I've had a lot of time to form my opinions.

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Have to say I'm a bit conflicted about this issue. I'm all for to each his own and on principle I'd be very uncomfortable "fleecing" Trollefar if we got divorced, but having had to quit a promising career to come here and watch the fort at home while he's having a great career and travelling around, I would think it very unfair if he ran off without some kind of compensation.
It was your choice to sacrifice all of that and the story of a man travelling around on business having a 'great time' while his wife stays at home with the sprog would hardly be something that wasn't repeated day in day out in pretty much every country worldwide. Of course, we all think it wouldn't happen to us, it is simply impossible right?
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Old 30.08.2016, 17:23
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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Well, I and many people I have had this discussion with think this is such an outmoded, impractical way of thinking.

--- re the above
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Old 30.08.2016, 18:03
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

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Well, I and many people I have had this discussion with think this is such an outmoded, impractical way of thinking. The fact is, despite best intentions and feelings of steadfast endless love you simply can not predict the future, and there is nothing wrong with someone protecting their assets for the possibility that things go belly up and sour. We all know the divorce rates nowadays, almost half of marriages end in divorce at some point down the line, and to stick your head in the sand and ignore them and pretend nothing will ever happen while living in care bear land is nothing short of negligent.

And from the chats I have had they are sure they want to get married, but not without taking some precautions.



Sure, slammer.



I come from a family of several separations and divorces, and also multiple friends who have been through the same. I've had a lot of time to form my opinions.



It was your choice to sacrifice all of that and the story of a man travelling around on business having a 'great time' while his wife stays at home with the sprog would hardly be something that wasn't repeated day in day out in pretty much every country worldwide. Of course, we all think it wouldn't happen to us, it is simply impossible right?
But it would also be his choice, wouldn't it? And where does it say he is and I'm not the one having fun with the tennis teacher? (Ironically I'm listening to Smashing Pumpkins right now and the song is called Love Is Suicide ).

Let's just say the choice to come here for 1-2 years was a common one given a certain set of circumstances, then, as is very common the circumstances changed and we've decided to stay here, on a common agreement. Both parties know very well what it means on all accounts, believe me. It's called negotiations, agreements and compromise. And adjustments of said agreement as the situation evolve.

It's very easy to say that in retrospect, I shouldn't have quit my job to come here, but in retrospect there are many things one would do differently. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, isn't it?

I'm pretty open about the fact that I never married because I thought it would last forever, thanks. As it happens, it's still lasting though. But then again I never believed in the institution itself, maybe that explains everything. I'm there because I want to, so is he.

Gotta go, sorry for highjacking the thread.
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Old 30.08.2016, 20:28
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

In parallel to the prenuptial you would need to look at their respective wills as well.

Division of assets would already be a big step forward IMO
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Old 30.08.2016, 20:39
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

When's the big day Richdog ........
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Old 30.08.2016, 20:46
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

No assets = no problems.

Tom
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Old 30.08.2016, 21:06
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Re: The Prenuptial Agreement Discussion Thread...

Out of curiosity...

Is a pre-nup contracted in another country recognized and/or enforceable in Switzerland?

Say if the couple signed a prenup and married in country A, moved to Switzerland and later divorced here?
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