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Old 22.09.2016, 14:58
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Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

Can anyone recommend a gastroenterologist, perferably in the greater SZ/ZG/ZH area, but I am willing to go pretty much anywhere.

I need a second opinion, and I am having trouble finding a specialist.

My GP cannot give me a referral due to the way the practice is set up, the independent gastroenterologist I have seen in the past cannot see me without a GP referral, and my insurer can only provide a review of the documents, not a specialist recommendation - which leave me calling random practices looking for someone.

So I figure that the collective wisdom of EF beats my friend google any day, and I would be grateful for any recommendations.

Many thanks.
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Old 22.09.2016, 22:23
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

Hello,
professor Sauter at hirslanden is lovely. He is extremely professional and competent. have seen him a few times and so has my husband after being badly treated by previous gastroenterologists. Be prepared to wait a while for an appointment though. Any more questions please feel free to pm me.
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Old 22.09.2016, 22:26
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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Can anyone recommend a gastroenterologist, perferably in the greater SZ/ZG/ZH area, but I am willing to go pretty much anywhere.

I need a second opinion, and I am having trouble finding a specialist.

My GP cannot give me a referral due to the way the practice is set up, the independent gastroenterologist I have seen in the past cannot see me without a GP referral, and my insurer can only provide a review of the documents, not a specialist recommendation - which leave me calling random practices looking for someone.

So I figure that the collective wisdom of EF beats my friend google any day, and I would be grateful for any recommendations.

Many thanks.
Could your gastroenterologist whom you have seen in the past give you a referral to a colleague of his, perhaps?
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Old 23.09.2016, 09:32
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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Could your gastroenterologist whom you have seen in the past give you a referral to a colleague of his, perhaps?
Unfortunately I can't even get an appointment with him without a referral from the GP, despite having been treated by him previously.

And the GP can't/won't do a referral outside the practice network.

Original diagnosis was done by the only gastroenterologist in the network, so no help there for a second opinion. Reading between the lines, not so easy for me in German , the GP seems hesitant to appear to cast doubt on a colleague in the network. Understandable, as GPs are dependent on their wider networks.

Frustrating, though. I feel like i am being pushed into surgery without enough information to understand risks, outcomes, or alternatives.

Londonmum, Hirsladen is private patients only, isn't it?

From past experience it usually takes extra pleading to try to get an appointment when one goes outside the Swiss insurance system, but I'll give Dr Sauter's office a call, and see how convincing I can be...

Thanks for the advice!
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Old 23.09.2016, 09:47
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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Unfortunately I can't even get an appointment with him without a referral from the GP, despite having been treated by him previously.
That's crazy - doctors who can't treat you are required to refer you afaik... I can't comprehend how one can decline referring a patient? I always thought that the only time you might run into problems is when you either cannot go to doctors outside a practice (circle) due to being in an HMO model or when your GP disagrees while you are in the Hausarzt/GP model.

Did I understand this correctly MC, that you are not in a standard model (thus able to choose whichever specialist/non-specialist you want to go to, and your actually going there being only dependent on their will to accept referred patients or new patients in general)?

How about calling hospitals, explaining your situation and asking them for recommendations for gastroenterologists who don't need a referral and are willing to take in new patients?

I don't understand how a doc can (morally) refuse to see a former patient, if that patient is ill, hasn't caused problems and needs urgent treatment? To require a referral after having seen a patient already seems overkill to me.
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Old 23.09.2016, 10:27
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

MC please empty your message box so I can PM you.
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Old 23.09.2016, 10:49
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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Did I understand this correctly MC, that you are not in a standard model (thus able to choose whichever specialist/non-specialist you want to go to, and your actually going there being only dependent on their will to accept referred patients or new patients in general)?
The issue is at this is for a second opinion, not treatment. The GP has referred me to a gastroenterologist for diagnosis, thus done what is needed. I suppose that I am being bit uncooperative in seeking a second opinion, but I don't fancy cutting out bits and bobs without clarification.

I'm on standard basic insurance with all-Switzerland hospital option. My insurance allows me to see anyone on an outpatient basis who accepts basic insurance.

It isn't really a question of insurance restrictions but seems to be rather of how each doctor's practice operates. Many specialists do not see self-referred patients, regardless of insurance type. Understandable, as the reputable specialists are in demand, to make the best use of their time they require a referral to ensure that the case merits their attention.

It's a question of getting past the gate keepers.

Who your GP can or will refer you seems to depend in part on formal and informal networks among doctors.



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=glowjupiter;2662284]How about calling hospitals, explaining your situation and asking them for recommendations for gastroenterologists who don't need a referral and are willing to take in new patients?

That seems to be the next step.
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Old 23.09.2016, 10:53
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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MC please empty your message box so I can PM you.
Thanks, have done so.
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Old 23.09.2016, 11:04
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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Many specialists do not see self-referred patients, regardless of insurance type. Understandable, as the reputable specialists are in demand, to make the best use of their time they require a referral to ensure that the case merits their attention.
Refusing self-referring patients who have never been to a specialist's practice before, I can understand - up to a point. But if a doc (specialist or not) has seen you before, and knows you are ill at present, he should - as rambled about below - not kick up a fuss about seeing you for a second opinion at a later date IMO.

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I don't understand how a doc can (morally) refuse to see a former patient, if that patient is ill, hasn't caused problems and needs urgent treatment? To require a referral after having seen a patient already seems overkill to me.
Anyway, good luck with the hospital calls and RTN's PM help.
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Old 23.09.2016, 11:05
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

How about going to another GP (there are good suggestions on the forum) to ask for a referral from them?
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Old 23.09.2016, 11:07
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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How about going to another GP (there are good suggestions on the forum) to ask for a referral from them?
There is a shortage of GP's in most cantons unfortunately, so MC might be out of luck on that front. She could go to another canton though, but I dunno if she feels like doing that.
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Old 23.09.2016, 11:16
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

I can personally recommend the St Anna Hirslander Luzerne practice. Dr Wiegand / Dr Wildi. Good luck with getting a second opinion.
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Old 23.09.2016, 11:20
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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Refusing self-referring patients who have never been to a specialist's practice before, I can understand - up to a point. But if a doc (specialist or not) has seen you before, and knows you are ill at present, he should - as rambled about below - not kick up a fuss about seeing you for a second opinion at a later date IMO.
But if this is the specialist who gave the initial diagnosis what is the point in seeing him again for a second opinion?
Surely the diagnosis will be the same?
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Old 23.09.2016, 11:29
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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But if this is the specialist who gave the initial diagnosis what is the point in seeing him again for a second opinion?
Surely the diagnosis will be the same?
The only thing MC says in her first post is that the independent gastroenterologist she has seen in the past can't see her without a GP referral, she doesn't say that he gave the first opinion in the current case.
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Old 23.09.2016, 11:35
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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But if this is the specialist who gave the initial diagnosis what is the point in seeing him again for a second opinion?
Surely the diagnosis will be the same?
Gastroenterologist A is the doctor the GP referred me to for diagnosis.

I was hoping to then see gastroenterologist B, who I had seen a few years ago for the same symptoms, for a second opinion to gasteroenterologist A's diagnosis and treatment recommendation. It seemed to make sense to me to see someone who had a bit of past history. Back then I was referred to gastroenterologist B by a now-retired GP, so can't go back there for a referral.

But gastroenterologist B requires a referral for all appointments, hence I can't see him and am looking for someone else.

---

I do understand the reluctance to refer patients hither and yon. Doctors refer based on personal knowledge of another doctor's practice, and on connections, formal and informal, between practices.

And I understand not taking self-referrals, the system is under too much pressure as it is.

But at the same time I am reluctant to proceed until I am comfortable that I have the information necessary to make a decision. A conflict between what is best for the system and what is best for the individual I guess.
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Old 23.09.2016, 11:39
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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The only thing MC says in her first post is that the independent gastroenterologist she has seen in the past can't see her without a GP referral, she doesn't say that he gave the first opinion in the current case.
So has seen two different gastroenterologists in the past?
The one from the 'network' who has given her the current diagnosis and a different 'independent' gastroenterologist who she's seen previously?

It's not really very clear from her posts.

Edit: ok she's clarified it now.
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Old 23.09.2016, 14:40
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Re: Recommendation for a Gastroenterologist?

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Unfortunately I can't even get an appointment with him without a referral from the GP, despite having been treated by him previously.

And the GP can't/won't do a referral outside the practice network.

Original diagnosis was done by the only gastroenterologist in the network, so no help there for a second opinion. Reading between the lines, not so easy for me in German , the GP seems hesitant to appear to cast doubt on a colleague in the network. Understandable, as GPs are dependent on their wider networks.

Frustrating, though. I feel like i am being pushed into surgery without enough information to understand risks, outcomes, or alternatives.

Londonmum, Hirsladen is private patients only, isn't it?

From past experience it usually takes extra pleading to try to get an appointment when one goes outside the Swiss insurance system, but I'll give Dr Sauter's office a call, and see how convincing I can be...

Thanks for the advice!
Yes you are right i think they operate on private patients but think they do see everyone. If the receptionists are not helpful you could always e mail him privately. His e mail was on the website and he always answers. If he cant see you then perhaps he could recommend someone?
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