Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 07.03.2017, 11:30
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 208
Groaned at 54 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 156 Times in 94 Posts
PilatesFan is considered unworthyPilatesFan is considered unworthyPilatesFan is considered unworthy
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

This site is very useful as a homeopathic remedy finder: abchomeopathy.com
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 07.03.2017, 12:48
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,834
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,166 Times in 7,304 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
This site is very useful as a homeopathic remedy finder: abchomeopathy.com
Hmmmm.

From the "About" page of that website:

Quote:
  • Like cures like
For example, if the symptoms of your cold are similar to poisoning by mercury, then mercury would be your homeopathic remedy.
  • Minimal Dose
The remedy is taken in an extremely dilute form; normally one part of the remedy to around 1,000,000,000,000 parts of water.
  • The Single Remedy
No matter how many symptoms are experienced, only one remedy is taken, and that remedy will be aimed at all those symptoms
  1. Do you not see a contradiction between the first and third points -- that a symptom is treated by its cause (or at least by something that causes similar symptoms), and yet all symptoms can be treated by just one remedy? Wouldn't that mean that all illness is caused by one agent and that same agent can treat all illness?
  2. Dilution of one part per trillion... that's pretty much impossible for even the most sophisticated measuring devices on the planet to achieve. But even if it were possible, please explain how this random molecule would have any effect once ingested by a human?
  3. Samual Hahnemann, the founder of homeopathy, advocated 30C dilutions for most purposes -- that is, one part per 10^-60 of diluent. On average, this would require giving two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material to any patient.
  4. The popular homeopathic flu preparation Oscillococcinum is diluted to a ratio of 10^-400. The profit margins must be astonishing. For reference, to achieve a preparation containing just one molecule of duck liver and heart -- the "active" ingredients of that "treatment" (even it were possible to isolate one "molecule") -- you'd require 2.9915 x 10^374 litres of water. There are about 1.4 billion trillion litres of water on the planet Earth. If you drank all the water on Earth (1.386 x 10^21 litres), you'd still be a little short of your target to achieve symptomatic relief from your duck organ therapy.
  5. Do you realise that any tap water you drink almost certainly contains all of the "remedies" that homeopathy adherents believe will cure all symptoms? Why, then, does anybody who drinks tap water suffer from any illness?
  6. Finally, even if homeopathy were capable of relieving symptoms (as claimed), that's a far cry from curing illness. What do you believe -- does homeopathy cure illness, does it simply mask symptoms, or does it do nothing whatsoever (except relieve pressure on the hip pocket nerve)?

Last edited by 22 yards; 07.03.2017 at 13:14.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #203  
Old 07.03.2017, 12:50
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,748
Groaned at 109 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 2,381 Times in 1,120 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
...[*]Do you not see a contradiction between the first and third points -- that a symptom is treated by its cause (or at least by something that causes similar symptoms), and yet all symptoms can be treated by just one remedy? Wouldn't that mean that all illness is caused by one agent and that same agent can treat all illness?[*]Dilution of one part per trillion... that's pretty much impossible for even the most sophisticated measuring devices on the planet to achieve. But even if it were possible, please explain how this random molecule would have any effect once ingested by a human?[*]Do you realise that any tap water you drink almost certainly contains all of the "remedies" that homeopathy adherents believe will cure all symptoms? Why, then, does anybody who drinks tap water suffer from any illness?[*]Finally, even if homeopathy were capable of relieving symptoms (as claimed), that's a far cry from curing illness. What do you believe -- does homeopathy cure illness, does it simply mask symptoms, or does it do nothing whatsoever (except relieve pressure on the hip pocket nerve)?[/LIST]
Logic does not apply here. They believe, ergo it is.

Also see: Religion.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank gbn for this useful post:
  #204  
Old 07.03.2017, 12:58
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 208
Groaned at 54 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 156 Times in 94 Posts
PilatesFan is considered unworthyPilatesFan is considered unworthyPilatesFan is considered unworthy
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Hmmmm.

From the "About" page of that website:


  1. Do you not see a contradiction between the first and third points -- that a symptom is treated by its cause (or at least by something that causes similar symptoms), and yet all symptoms can be treated by just one remedy? Wouldn't that mean that all illness is caused by one agent and that same agent can treat all illness?
  2. Dilution of one part per trillion... that's pretty much impossible for even the most sophisticated measuring devices on the planet to achieve. But even if it were possible, please explain how this random molecule would have any effect once ingested by a human?
  3. Do you realise that any tap water you drink almost certainly contains all of the "remedies" that homeopathy adherents believe will cure all symptoms? Why, then, does anybody who drinks tap water suffer from any illness?
  4. Finally, even if homeopathy were capable of relieving symptoms (as claimed), that's a far cry from curing illness. What do you believe -- does homeopathy cure illness, does it simply mask symptoms, or does it do nothing whatsoever (except relieve pressure on the hip pocket nerve)?

Thanks for your intelligent post.

1. Not really
2. Thats why I wil be taking a course!
3. Not all tap water is the same!
4. It cures I believe
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 07.03.2017, 13:18
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,834
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,166 Times in 7,304 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for your intelligent post.

1. Not really
2. Thats why I wil be taking a course!
3. Not all tap water is the same!
4. It cures I believe
Fair enough (on point 4) -- many people believe in something that's unprovable and for which there is absolutely no evidence. It's the basis of all religions, after all.

Please take a long look at the points numbered 1 and 3, above. By the way, I edited my previous post to add points 3 and 4, which are based on cold, hard facts. Personally, I think suspension of rational analysis is the only way one could ignore those facts.

Last edited by 22 yards; 07.03.2017 at 14:16.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #206  
Old 07.03.2017, 13:23
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,169
Groaned at 171 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Doesn't training to become a Homeopathic Doctor simply involve standing next to another one?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #207  
Old 07.03.2017, 13:26
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,250
Groaned at 121 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Doesn't training to become a Homeopathic Doctor simply involve standing next to another one?
Almost. The homeopathic "doctor" stands in the middle of a crowd of 1 billion students, who all receive the same training.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #208  
Old 07.03.2017, 13:28
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,169
Groaned at 171 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Almost. The homeopathic "doctor" stands in the middle of a crowd of 1 billion students, who all receive the same training.
Must be like having a lobotomy without the mess.
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 07.03.2017, 13:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,501
Groaned at 978 Times in 687 Posts
Thanked 17,499 Times in 6,856 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for your intelligent post.

1. Not really
2. Thats why I wil be taking a course!
3. Not all tap water is the same!
4. It cures I believe
This is exactly why Homeopathy is so dangerous. People with no medical background or training attempting to treat serious illnesses with nothing more than the power of belief. It is quack and charlatan territory, open to massive exploitation and abuse.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #210  
Old 07.03.2017, 13:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Must be like having a lobotomy without the mess.

You're assuming these people got brains, which is a big assumption
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:08
Cata1yst's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zugish
Posts: 560
Groaned at 17 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 721 Times in 327 Posts
Cata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Agree with Helm and many others.

There's also probably a reason the development of a new proper drug takes 15 years and costs 1bn+ versus homeopathic "medicine" that is essentially just a couple of plants thrown into a bowl. I'm not blindly pro-Pharma but every idiot should see a difference between the two approaches and why it's much liklier that the former has at least some effect.

I'm not completely against alternative medicine, but I'm aware most "success" is nothing more than a placebo effect. Granted, for minor ailments, a placebo effect may just suffice and if it helps some to imagine an improvement, so be it. But it's a whole different issue if it's the big things and I'm honestly shocked that some properly licensed doctors would even consider prescribing homeopathy for e.g. leotrepper's son. That one should never be allowed to practice medicine again, seriously.
I agree completely with this but I do work in Pharma..last count I was told was 200-300M USD per drug. It of course depends on the complexity of the target and the delivery path to a solution.

These drugs are PROVEN to work in clinical trials, in double blind studies it's not witchcraft. Many do have side effects which are noted and made clear to patients/doctors.

Some homeopathic drugs can and will cause damage in large amounts and there is little or no regulation as to their use, or proven abilities of their effectiveness.

However there are many drugs which are derived from plants that have been PROVEN to be effective in curing, relieving pain or treating illness.

Of course weed is a great pain reliever..<cough, cough>
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Cata1yst for this useful post:
  #212  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:12
NoToM's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: St. Gallen
Posts: 148
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 210 Times in 74 Posts
NoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputation
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Hi there


The willingness to help sick people is a very good attribute, keep it, the world needs people like you.


But:


There is scientific proof that Homeopathy doesn't work better then any placebos. Scientific proof is not just a other kind of believe, its the best method we have to validate the truth of a statement. Its not a matter of believe, its just a fact. Simply google it and ask yourself if you really like to spend your time with this crap. The scientific method isn't really hard to understand, give it a try.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NoToM for this useful post:
  #213  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post

There is scientific proof that Homeopathy doesn't work better then any placebos. Scientific proof is not just a other kind of believe, its the best method we have to validate the truth of a statement. Its not a matter of believe, its just a fact. Simply google it and ask yourself if you really like to spend your time with this crap. The scientific method isn't really hard to understand, give it a try.
I wouldn't say there is scientific proof that it doesn't work - there's just no scientific evidence that it does work. It's a subtle difference but I think science would be remiss to say they can prove it doesn't work.

I have no time for homeopathy, personally, which is why I value science and its caution and reticence to make bold claims.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #214  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:21
NoToM's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: St. Gallen
Posts: 148
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 210 Times in 74 Posts
NoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputation
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
I wouldn't say there is scientific proof that it doesn't work - there's just no scientific evidence that it does work. It's a subtle difference but I think science would be remiss to say they can prove it doesn't work.


Sure, my fault, your right, there's no scientific evidence that it does work.
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:22
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 208
Groaned at 54 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 156 Times in 94 Posts
PilatesFan is considered unworthyPilatesFan is considered unworthyPilatesFan is considered unworthy
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
This is exactly why Homeopathy is so dangerous. People with no medical background or training attempting to treat serious illnesses with nothing more than the power of belief. It is quack and charlatan territory, open to massive exploitation and abuse.
Do you have any proof?

EDIT

There is formal training. You're out of touch
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:22
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,997
Groaned at 474 Times in 379 Posts
Thanked 21,358 Times in 8,758 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

There's no non-scientific evidence that it works, either.
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:23
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 208
Groaned at 54 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 156 Times in 94 Posts
PilatesFan is considered unworthyPilatesFan is considered unworthyPilatesFan is considered unworthy
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Sure, my fault, your right, there's no scientific evidence that it does work.
Ask those who've been healed it doesn't work!
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:25
NoToM's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: St. Gallen
Posts: 148
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 210 Times in 74 Posts
NoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputationNoToM has an excellent reputation
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Do you have any proof?


If something just don't work, (no proof available that it does), but u use it to cure, you really cant see why its dangerous? Come on....
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:27
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,834
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,166 Times in 7,304 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
Ask those who've been healed it doesn't work!
I had a cold last week. I don't any more. While I was away skiing, I had a delicious plate of Kaiserschmarrn.

Kaiserschmarrn cures colds.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #220  
Old 07.03.2017, 14:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Training to become a Homeopathic Doctor

Quote:
View Post
I agree completely with this but I do work in Pharma..last count I was told was 200-300M USD per drug. It of course depends on the complexity of the target and the delivery path to a solution.

These drugs are PROVEN to work in clinical trials, in double blind studies it's not witchcraft. Many do have side effects which are noted and made clear to patients/doctors.

Some homeopathic drugs can and will cause damage in large amounts and there is little or no regulation as to their use, or proven abilities of their effectiveness.

However there are many drugs which are derived from plants that have been PROVEN to be effective in curing, relieving pain or treating illness.

Of course weed is a great pain reliever..<cough, cough>

That reminds me, i'm in pain, i see a bit of homeophatic weed comming on, excuses in advance for any funny posting later on
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
doctor homeopathy science




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Speciality training for foreign doctor/work as Assistenärzte FMHLopes Employment 7 23.10.2018 08:18
Homeopathic doctor recommendations in Zürich? Mara Jane Family matters/health 42 21.10.2011 13:08
English speaking homeopathic doctor in Zurich Bibi Family matters/health 146 06.10.2011 16:29
Homeopathic doctor in Basel Swiss Cynic Other/general 9 20.09.2010 17:16
Homeopathic consultant prashantb03 Commercial 7 08.04.2010 23:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0