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  #21  
Old 09.01.2017, 00:06
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

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Are you anorexic?

My wife is also 165, and at 53kg she was looking anorexic, much better with 60 or so for that height.

Tom
Think I must have hollow bones or something! Depends on the person I guess, I looked chubby at 55kg. Had full check by Dr recently and said I was 100% physically healthy ... mentally though
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  #22  
Old 09.01.2017, 00:06
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

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I'd like to add that I (born and raised in the UK) am only 3cms taller than your wife and a few kgs lighter. Considering also that Asians are usually smaller than Europeans, I don't see your logic at all


You are exceptional, at the left end side.
As I have said many times here: I expect my next generation to be taller, and I do see children in my home country to be taller than their parents, after a big improvement in nutrition
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  #23  
Old 09.01.2017, 00:07
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

What works in your culture for sleeping at night? There's no rule saying you have to do it the western way.. if it's not working for you, then accept it, try something else.

One things for sure, if you are both stressed and anxious at night, your children are feeding of that energy and are hyper, not relaxed. Bedtime should be a quiet and calm time for all of you, if they're to get into good bedtime habits. However, you seem to have too many stresses going on, take the bedtime off the list of to do things for now and one of you sleeps with a child until you're ready to tackle it with more positive energy and enthusiasm.

BTW, I would not allow a child fall asleep in one bed and then move them to another, it freaks them out when they wake up as they don't know where they are.. sleep with them in their bed if you need to. We had a double bed for my daughter for years for this very reason. She was/ is a great sleeper, independent etc. but had her clingy moments too, feeling sick, or wake with a bad nightmare so one of us would sleep with her. It calmed her down and helped enormously. Do what you have to, and do what suits you.. chill, relax and you'll find your own way sooner than you think.
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  #24  
Old 09.01.2017, 00:08
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If you want your kids to speak you language, speak it at home.

My wife's kids can't speak Vietnamese as their father never spoke it at home, likewise my wife can't speak SwissGerman (or any German) as her father never spoke it at home.

Both of my kids speak fluent English as my (late) wife and I spoke it at home, as well as fluent Italian and passable French and German.

Weirdest is that I have a Ticinese friend who can't speak Ticinese, as her parents (both Ticinese) only speak to her in Italian, though they speak Ticinese with each other. And her kids don't speak Japanese, as their father never speaks it at home.

Tom

Thanks, language is less of my concern in this thread. I'll come back at language in another thread.

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It sounds to me like you let the kids make the rules. This is not the western way of doing things at all.
Parents make the rules.
If the current situation is killing you, then you have to change the rules.

And there will be a few screams at night as the kids learn the new rules, but at least you will live to their 10th birthday.

Gina Ford is a western author whom you may wish to read -
http://www.contentedbaby.com/BabyandToddlerRoutine.htm


Thanks.


Asian parents make the rules in some areas, and let the children making the rules in some other. Western parents might do it differently.


I am torn between East or West. And I have not found the good way yet.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.01.2017 at 00:02. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #25  
Old 09.01.2017, 00:12
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

Stop obsessing about nutrition and your children's possible future height.

Provide them with a balanced diet (bearing in mind that a child's tastes change and develop over time) and if they don't clear their plates one day or refuse to eat as much as you think they should they're unlikely to starve as they'll simply eat more another time.

Hovering over them will they eat and then making a big fuss if they pick at their meals is a mistake; a vicious circle that's very hard to break.
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  #26  
Old 09.01.2017, 00:13
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With enough kroket and friet&mayo you get them to 80 kg in no time though

Haha,


But with a Dutch average of 187 for males, how can I reach it ?

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Sounds to me like you're far too anxious about the whole parenting thing. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to do it. Do what works best for both you and the kids and forget meeting standards - there aren't any. So long as your children are healthy and happy (and that doesn't necessarily mean they weigh a certain amount at a certain age) that's all that matters.


Thanks, but I do like the ways that promise taller, more independent and stronger children.


Happiness is a relative word.

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Just let your kids eat whatever they want and invest some money in one of these medical devices.

If you were in Switzerland, based on a recent thread here about what they consider as valid medical practices, it'd probably be covered by your health insurance.


Stretching device ?
Can that work on me now ? :-)

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Reading the rest of your posts it seems to me these are the least of your problems right now.


You are not unique. There are many households where both parents work. Working full time and raising children is a lot of work. You need to make rules, set limits and put some order into your household.


I am certain your workplace is not a free for all and this is exactly how your household sounds. This is not a healthy situation for anyone.


Could you please be more elaborate ?

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MathNut's sensible post covers most things, but one small thing I could add.... if your son is afraid of being left alone (presumably in the dark), why don't you buy a small plug-in nightlight? That way he'll feel less 'alone'.

Do buy a child-care book or two as suggested earlier, there are plenty of them; you'll find you're not alone in feeling overwhelmed by parenthood when far away from your own culture and family, but you'll survive.... and so will your children!


My child is afraid of being a lone also in full light.
Thanks for the hind about the books, I'll google now for : "Parenting when far away from home"

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.01.2017 at 00:03. Reason: merging consecutive replies; please use multi-quote (to the right of quote)
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  #27  
Old 09.01.2017, 00:41
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

I agree with Mathnut's post. Some other thoughts for you:

-for maintaining a disciplined and loving environment, Janet Lansbury has lots of good advice : http://www.janetlansbury.com/

-if they're on the normal growth curve and healthy, there is nothing to do about height. i have one child that is chronically low in zinc due to her health problems, zinc deficiencies will impact height. if your children aren't getting enough zinc in their foods try adding in dietary sources. a good book on children's nutrition is this one : https://www.amazon.com/Cure-Your-Chi.../dp/0761175830
my daughter who is low in zinc eats a bigger variety of foods when her zinc levels are in range. this can potentially be explained by the fact that zinc shortages will warp smells and tastes, so some foods can taste rotten when zinc is low. kids sometimes go through phases of lower zinc, as it gets used by the body for a growth spurt

-getting hyper when tired/at night is often linked to high histamine. you may want to visit a dr and see about getting a baseline IgE blood test or allergies tested

-a friend gave me a tip on night-waking that she got when she took her child to a psychologist. tell the children that night-time is for sleeping, nothing else. if they wake, take them to their bed, no talking, keep lights dimmed, and have them stand next to their bed until they're ready to go back to sleep. there's no crying involved, just make sure you've explained what will happen before they fall asleep. after a couple nights this resolved night waking for my daughter.

Definitely try being more authoritative. You don't need to be feeding kids that age. It will turn into a power game. I'd follow the advice of put the food out, eat, clear up and when they're down from the table that's it for the evening.

One friend of ours had a child who ate little but only wanted milk, even until age 5/6. Turns out he had swollen adenoids and it wasn't comfortable for him to swallow.

So, there are some possible medical reasons for a few of the things you're mentioning. However, I'd work on the structural elements first and if nothing improves visit a dr with a list of things to check out. EFT (emotional freedom technique) can be helpful to de-stress before bed. Likewise, being afraid of everything can also have a biochemical element (cortisol either too low or too high, other nutritional imbalances) but they're unlikely for the age of kids you're mentioning unless there has been extreme stress for the child or they have inherited the condition of low cortisol (as is possible with descendents of Holocaust survivors). But again, I re-iterate that likely most of what you're describing can be resolved with firm but kind limits for the kids. Kids feel insecure when they're in charge.
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  #28  
Old 09.01.2017, 00:59
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

Thanks Schmoelle,

There are probably some medical questions to be asked indeed. I'll look into that.

Otherwise, setting rules seem to be a must. The problem is: what rules are good to set.

I am afraid of myself making unsound rules that limit my child's growth both mentally and physically.
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  #29  
Old 09.01.2017, 01:39
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

The rules are completely up to you! Janet Lansbury has good advice on this aspect.

When my kids were younger, we set out these family rules :
1. We help each other
2. We share
3. We take turns
4. We use kind words
5. We don’t hurt people and it’s not OK for them to hurt us
6. We take care of our things
7. We take care of ourselves
8. We eat healthy food
9. We use our best manners
10. It’s OK to make mistakes, but then we try to fix them.

Then, once a week we'd choose one aspect and set a goal with them. Your 2 year old is too young but your older child could do this.

For example, a goal linked to 'we eat healthy food' could be that the children feed themselves. They can tick it off on a chart. Mine never got rewards as ticking it off on the chart was enough for them. Each week we'd choose something different. We put this in place because my older child needed more structure than she was getting from us, and it helped her a lot to feel more secure. Not every kid needs this much structure, but she benefitted from it.

Another thing that was helpful was having an age-appopriate checklist morning or night with photos of them doing each thing on the list in order, laminate it, and hang it on their door with a way for them to track it (clothespin that they move down the list, for example). For our older daughter, if she had everything done and was ready by X time, we could play together for 10 minutes before leaving for school. We helped her put her clothes out the night before so that in the morning she just had to get dressed, eat breakfast, brush her teeth. In the evening same thing, if everything was done by X time we could play a game until X o clock. If not she still got her bedtime story but there wasn't time for the game.

I think you'd benefit from a parenting course, to increase your own confidence. It sounds like you're doing lots of great things but then second guess yourself and it all goes down the drain.

My kids are 9 and 6 now. They don't have physical checklists anymore, but we still have routines and bed-times and rules. Our goal is for them to be autonomous, happy people. It does take a big investment to help kids learn each skill needed for autonomy, but in the long run it's better for every one. What strikes me from your description is that you are doing everything for your kids. They're old enough to be learning autonomy in some areas -- feeding themselves, helping clear off their plates, make their beds, getting themselves into their pyjamas, etc.
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  #30  
Old 09.01.2017, 11:44
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

A very informative post, schmoelle. A big thank
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  #31  
Old 09.01.2017, 20:43
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

Reducing anxiety of parents is probably more conducive to growth support than anything. Warmth, respect, understanding, closeness, not smothering.

Idle parenting (not sure how Western this would be), having thoughtful parents myself and my own intuition were quite helpful to me as a parent.

I know tall Chinese but they eat no more than others, what they do have is originating genetically up North, though.

Manifesto of the iddle parent, Tom Hodgkinson:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mot...-children.html

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  #32  
Old 10.01.2017, 11:32
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

I am clearly one of the lucky ones, or accidently trained them to conform to my ways without realising. Both my daughter (7YO) and son (2YO) have slept through the night in their own beds from 5 months old. Apart from occassions when they are sick, they don't ever sleep in my bed.


With regards to food, both of my two have massive appetites and eat pretty much anything. Again, this was down to the fact that I just gave them what I made and if they didn't like it then they had a "top up" of milk to fill them up. This was at a very young age though and I am not sure how I would handle it with children that have already staked their claim on how they want things to be.


I feel for you and can see you may have a few painful weeks to "retrain" them, however, you shouldn't feel like you should need to make them conform to Western ways unless this suits your family. Each to their own, and there is never a "right way"" to bring children up...only a wrong way (violence, abuse etc).


I wish you the best of luck
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  #33  
Old 23.01.2017, 15:21
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

What a nice environment you have built up with your kids Mimi1981. Can you explain a bit more on "I just gave them what I made and if they didn't like it then they had a "top up" of milk to fill them up" ??
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Old 23.01.2017, 15:33
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

Thanks everyone for your inputs.

Here is my update: I think that probably we don't educate our children enough because of the following 2 reasons (1) the difference between my wife and me and (2) we are too tired working full time

WHY ?

1) My wife and me are so different.

We fight a lot with or without the kids presence, because we are so different.

- Money: I am petty, while my wife is generous.
- Details: I pay attention, my wife not
- Kids length and weight: I care a lot, my wife not.
- Kids education (school, music): my wife cares much more than me.
- Cooking: I pay attention, my wife much less (traditionally in my country men never cook, while women must cook. But my wife is not a typical South East Asian girl, and neither am I). Once in Europe I learn to cook and can proudly serve some finest recipes of my country. My wife learns to cook as well but she does not enjoy it.

I guess that the kids are confused by the inconsistencies between their parents, and that is why they don't know what to do.

2) We are too tired

Both my wife and me are not so energetic and are having health issues. I am fighting with my sleep disorders, while my wife is very often sleep deprived. So instead of putting energy to train our kids, we surrender and let the kids sleep with us.
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Old 23.01.2017, 15:41
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

If you can see the problem, then you have the possibility to change things.
This is far further than many people get. you and your wife need to find a united front when it comes to the kids.

Good luck.
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  #36  
Old 23.01.2017, 15:46
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

Take it in turns to sleep /nap if need be. Noone functions well on long term sleep deprivation. At the risk of being inflammatory, your wife has likely slept a lot worse than you for a lot longer, what wjith her having carried the kids. If there is an underlying health issue for you maybe go to the doctor.

Set some ground rules for the kids now. Make their bedroom a welcoming place. Don't stress so much about their height, there's sod all you can do about that, just ensure they are eating as healthily as they can. Kids are hard work, you have to take care of yourselves too.

Last edited by RufusB; 23.01.2017 at 16:07.
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Old 23.01.2017, 15:51
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

Having parents that are different from each other won't make your children confused. Not listening or cooperating with your partner will.

Me and my husband couldn't be any more different: I like rice, he likes potatoes; he loves stew, I can't stand it; I like hard rock, he likes heavy metal; I'm pretty good with spatial visualisation, he can't find the milk in front of his nose; he believes in euphemisms, I believe you should just get the harsh cold truth out; I'm an expressive, loud south European, he's a reserved German. But our kid or extended family aren't confused: because we respect each other, even in our disagreements.

Differences make life worth living. Other points of view enrich a discussion. Learning how to deal with those differences like adults will teach your children how to properly engage in a discussion later on.

You can have 2 totally different parenting styles, but you can't negate the work of the other parent. Don't let yourself be played by your children and talk to your partner.

It seems to me you are trying to find a formula to raising kids, and apply it at brute force. Parenting is something you can't draw a formula for: it depends on culture, epoch, personality, financial situation and other external factors.
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  #38  
Old 23.01.2017, 15:52
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

About the first factor: the last 7 days my wife was away, I was dealing with the kids alone. And it went better than I thought.

My two sons still sleep in one room, but here is the change:

1) When my wife was with us:
at 19:30 even after all routines (eat, drink, tooth brushing, piss, story telling), I still have to hold the hand of the 5 y.o. boy while shouting at the 2.5 y.o. not to make noise so that his older brother can sleep.

2) During the last 7 days:


- During meal time: I exercise my power to build more discipline to the kids. The result is: (a) both of them eat more, (b) they only eat at the eating table instead of watching TV while I feed them
- I ask the older boy to help me with house holding. He is so happy to see that I appreciate his help.
- Sleep time: I use the time from 19:30 til 20:00 to convince the older boy to sleep with less and less of my being presence in the room to support him. At the same time I walk into another room with the younger energetic boy, build puzzle and do reading with him. I call this the big success because (a) the older boy could fall asleep without me in the room, (b) I don't have to shout at the younger boy, (c) I have time to teach the younger boy for mental development
- Night time: I sleep on the floor, still inside the kids' room so that when they are awake they know I am there, and I could quickly cuddle them so that they continue sleeping in their bed. If I am not in the room now, the older boy will run towards my room, while the younger one will cry.

3) Todo

- For the night time: the younger boy still asks me to be inside his crib (yes, INSIDE, but I am only 174cm and I sit while he lies down) for he to fall asleep at 21:00 when the older boy already sleeps (since ~ 20:00). The next step is for me to be outside of the crib, let he cry a bit, and after that is for him to fall asleep while I am not there.
- For the sleep after lunch: I have successfully let the younger boy sleep after 30-60m crying.
- For the sleep training of the older boy: currently I still have to half encourage, half "threaten with an authority and angry voice". But in some days I hope I can only positively encourage him to sleep alone. I am proud of this boy now.
- For WC training of the younger boy: I am receiving help of the nannies. I need to learn to do it myself as well. Currently having to wash his buttock after pooping cost still a lot of energy.

Long road a head, but I find me more focused and effective with the kids since the time I started this thread.

Thank you my dear forum mates.
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Old 23.01.2017, 15:59
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

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Having parents that are different from each other won't make your children confused. Not listening or cooperating with your partner will.
You are right, we don't know how to agree upon disagreement. We negate each other too much. We are building rules towards agreement, and noting down on paper so that we would be less angry and confused towards each other.

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It seems to me you are trying to find a formula to raising kids, and apply it at brute force. Parenting is something you can't draw a formula for: it depends on culture, epoch, personality, financial situation and other external factors.
Formulas help build the routines, which help the parents maximizing efficiency. I am not afraid of being overengineerd, I know my wife and me are from a culture where rules almost don't exist. My family needs more rules.
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Old 24.01.2017, 13:56
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Re: Working parent running out of energy with 2 kids: 2 and 5 y.o.

I highly recommend the book Simplicity Parenting. It's less about rules and more about the foundation you put in place.

https://www.bol.com/nl/p/simplicity-...1004009805882/
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