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  #21  
Old 28.04.2017, 14:18
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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For the last 5+ years I have been sharing the cost of my daughter visiting her father with him.
Well, I respect it very much but either someone can not afford of does not want to afford. In our case, father of my child has opportunity to work but he prefers and always preferred to live on someones account. he earns money without declaring it and play someone without incomes while he has a own business in his country.

I agree, the parents have to be flexible and think about the child, but I dont want to be used and this is how I feel. Last year when I was unemployed I needed to sell out my car to be able to pay for my son school while his father went for 6 weeks holiday in Jamaica and invited (rather his wife did it) my son for 2 weeks holiday in France.

I know it sounds very frustrating and I give the impression of being to much emotional but is not easy having different understanding of sharing the responsibilities. It feels also bad to be used- therefore I dont want to go lower with it.
And please dont write that I am hurt and this is the reason. We separated almost 4 years ago and I am happy in my new relation. The reason our our split was his lies, double life, manipulations and cheating on me. He never participated in our budget. So, even I stopped the relation it looks like I am still in this pathology the difference is that he doesn't cheat me but his wife. And now he tries to use out us both
Thanks guys for your input
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  #22  
Old 28.04.2017, 14:28
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

If you know he's cheating the system then you should report him to the police/taxation office/gemeinde.
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Old 28.04.2017, 15:11
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

all I know is that in Switzerland, the father has no rights to their child if not married to the mother...point barre.
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Old 28.04.2017, 15:24
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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all I know is that in Switzerland, the father has no rights to their child if not married to the mother...point barre.
All I know is that this is not true by law: Art. 298a, 298b, and 298c Swiss Civil Code.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a298a

All I know is that this is unfortunately still true if we look at actual court praxis
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Old 28.04.2017, 15:47
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

I think the key phrase in the Civil Code is this:

"5 Unless and until the declaration has been made, the mother has sole parental responsibility."

If a written declaration hasn't been made by the OP and her ex then the above will apply.

https://www.ch.ch/en/parental-author...rried-parents/
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Old 28.04.2017, 15:54
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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I think the key phrase in the Civil Code is this:

"5 Unless and until the declaration has been made, the mother has sole parental responsibility."

If a written declaration hasn't been made by the OP and her ex then the above will apply.
The father could sue for shared custody if the mother refuses such a declaration. Normally, joint custody should be awarded unless the child's well being is in danger.

Art. 298b
1 If a parent refuses to make a declaration on joint parental responsibility, the other parent may request the child protection authority at the child's domicile to intervene.

2 The child protection authority shall order joint parental responsibility, unless, in order to safeguard the child's well-being, the mother should retain sole parental responsibility or the sole parental responsibility should be assigned to the father.

(Abs. 2 reworded by me to better reflect what is said in the German text)
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Old 28.04.2017, 16:01
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

I agree. The question is does the OP and their ex - and other unmarried couples for that matter - know what the law is regarding children out of wedlock. I suspect many don't and as the OP just sort of make their own arrangements.
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Old 28.04.2017, 16:06
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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I agree. The question is does the OP and their ex - and other unmarried couples for that matter - know what the law is regarding children out of wedlock. I suspect many don't and as the OP just sort of make their own arrangements.
As we are dealing with an international case we also have to look in the Hague convention of 19 October 1996 on Jurisdiction, Applicable Law, Recognition, Enforcement and Co-operation in Respect of Parental Responsibility and Measures for the Protection of Children
https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/...l-text/?cid=70

Somewhere in there we should find the answer what applies.
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Old 28.04.2017, 16:06
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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all I know is that in Switzerland, the father has no rights to their child if not married to the mother...point barre.
Not true at all.

Married or not, the rights are the same.

Tom
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Old 28.04.2017, 16:06
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I think the key phrase in the Civil Code is this:

"5 Unless and until the declaration has been made, the mother has sole parental responsibility."

If a written declaration hasn't been made by the OP and her ex then the above will apply.

https://www.ch.ch/en/parental-author...rried-parents/
yes, if my son would be born in Switzerland and would be a holder of Swiss citizenship He is not and the low of his bd place is different and he spent 7 first months of his life out of Switzerland as he was preborn child with health issues preventing us from traveling . But, again my goal was not to exclude the father, I just wanted to know my position.

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All I know is that this is not true by law: Art. 298a, 298b, and 298c Swiss Civil Code.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a298a

All I know is that this is unfortunately still true if we look at actual court praxis
This is not true and this is good so

Last edited by 3Wishes; 28.04.2017 at 16:31. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 28.04.2017, 16:09
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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yes, if my son would be born in Switzerland and would be a holder of Swiss citizenship
No, that is not important.

What is important is that he is a Swiss resident.

Tom
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  #32  
Old 28.04.2017, 16:18
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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all I know is that in Switzerland, the father has no rights to their child if not married to the mother...point barre.
All I know is that this is not true by law: Art. 298a, 298b, and 298c Swiss Civil Code.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a298a

All I know is that this is unfortunately still true if we look at actual court praxis
This is not true and this is good so
Aehhm, what is not true and what is good? The law or the court practise?


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No, that is not important.

What is important is that he is a Swiss resident.

Tom
Swiss resident at time of birth. ;)

Oh, Article 15 of the convention says that in normal cases the law of the resident country applies.
" If the child's habitual residence changes to another Contracting State, the law of that other State governs, from the time of the change, the conditions of application of the measures taken in the State of the former habitual residence."


Now the problem is, did the implicit established joint custody from the country of birth transfer to Switzerland as well? I would say yes. From Article 16 of the convention:

(3) Parental responsibility which exists under the law of the State of the child's habitual residence subsists after a change of that habitual residence to another State.

(4) If the child's habitual residence changes, the attribution of parental responsibility by operation of law to a person who does not already have such responsibility is governed by the law of the State of the new habitual residence.

Case solved. Done. (Maybe I missed something. I am not a lawyer)
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Old 28.04.2017, 16:22
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

I think it bears repeating:
If you want to move to a different city to improve your employment opportunities, then it really is on you to provide the transportation for your son to see his father. Regardless of his income situation, I think that the court is going to look at your six figure salary and determine that you can afford a child's travel card on SBB. It's the right thing to do.

I'd also be willing to bet that if you asked the father to agree to the move based on you paying the transportation costs between your home and his current address, he would say ok. If that's the goal, I think it's a small price to pay to get to move.

*Be sure to be as specific and detailed as possible in writing the agreement, so there is no future confilcts if he moves to a different address or country and still expects you to pay. You could also compromise and say that you'll pay for the tickets, but you would like him to come to pick up your son from your home, and you would pick him up from his home at the end of the visit.

Also keep in mind, they're only this young for a few years. Eventually (years from now), your son will be old enough to travel by himself on direct trains with enough practice.

Good luck with it all.

Zen
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Old 28.04.2017, 16:38
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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Also keep in mind, they're only this young for a few years. Eventually (years from now), your son will be old enough to travel by himself on direct trains with enough practice.


Zen
I dont go so far but to reach Basel from Lausanne I need to change twice thanks!
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Old 28.04.2017, 16:42
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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I dont go so far but to reach Basel from Lausanne I need to change twice thanks!
Only once. In Bern, which is perfectly in the middle and a good place to meet.
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Old 28.04.2017, 17:32
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Only once. In Bern, which is perfectly in the middle and a good place to meet.
Twice and even 3 times since we are both out of the city (actually I could be so great mother and to support my son in his contact with his father and bring him and pick him up both ways twice a month (why to meet in the middle). Additionally, I could pay mine, my sons and his father ticked since he works only 40 proc and he is not capable.

Its not enough that I work 100 proc (or more), I cook every evening, put him in the bed and prepare him to school every morning 5 times a week? Whats about me? Should I sacrificed myself just because his dad is not capable?

Guys I asked you for advice but be reasonable. If we are talking about the rights of both parents (which I fully respect and follow) lets talk also about responsibilities
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Old 28.04.2017, 17:36
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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I think that the court is going to look at your six figure salary and determine that you can afford a child's travel card on SBB.
Zen
The discussion is not about child's ticket. His father asked me to participate in his ticket since he is not capable to pay.
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Old 28.04.2017, 17:45
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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Twice and even 3 times since we are both out of the city (actually I could be so great mother and to support my son in his contact with his father and bring him and pick him up both ways twice a month (why to meet in the middle). Additionally, I could pay mine, my sons and his father ticked since he works only 40 proc and he is not capable.

Its not enough that I work 100 proc (or more), I cook every evening, put him in the bed and prepare him to school every morning 5 times a week? Whats about me? Should I sacrificed myself just because his dad is not capable?

Guys I asked you for advice but be reasonable. If we are talking about the rights of both parents (which I fully respect and follow) lets talk also about responsibilities
It seems like it is better to rely on legal advice, as per the dad's rights in case you move. Again, if you have sole custody arranged and are the one footing the kid's bills, he doesn't have much chance to stop you from moving for a job. It is good you are doing all you can to provide for your kid and support the good relationship between the kid and the dad. It looks like it is up to him to step up the plate to become a responsible and loving dad for his kid. I am not sure if complaining about the dad here is so.. constructive. Good luck and do something nice for yourself, too. I know how difficult single moms and sole providers can have the whole shibang.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 28.04.2017 at 19:26.
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Old 28.04.2017, 18:35
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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If we are talking about the rights of both parents (which I fully respect and follow) lets talk also about responsibilities
@mikoala, I take MusicChic's point that being a single parent is a lot of work! Being any kind of parent who is taking the role seriously, is a lot of work, including parents like you, who are in a new relationship.

Please bear in mind that when you go to Court, the Court will most likely be looking at the rights of the CHILD first, as these come before the rights of either parent.

I know of a case in which the ex partners (you, and your son's father) found the travelling, to and fro, to bring and fetch the child, a real strain, expensive and typically full of conflict. Once, when both parents took ill, there was no other solution but for the new partner of one of them to take the child back, and was met at the meeting-point by the new partner of the other parent. Guess what happened? Peace, because these were two strangers who had no past war to fight. From then on, for at least half the journeys, the new partners fetched and brougt the child, and everyone found it less of a strain.

Could you perhaps ask your new partner, and your son's father's new wife, to help you with this? They might do so willingly, for the sake of the child, and to lower the general level of conflict.

The child can travel with the parent on an SBB children's card, for Fr. 30 per year. I know of a case in which the new partner (not married) was also able to buy a children's card, and this helped a lot with all sorts of transport of his not-legally-step-son.
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Old 28.04.2017, 18:47
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Re: authority parental in Switzerland for no Swiss parents

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The discussion is not about child's ticket. His father asked me to participate in his ticket since he is not capable to pay.
I get it that you had a bad relationship with your son's father, and that you feel used and frustrated that he sponges off people. And now it looks like he's going to get away with it again. I do understand that feeling of still being caught up in his pathology, as you put it.

Even so, it is your parental responsibility to ensure that your child can exercise his right to contact with his father. If the father does not have the money for the ticket (which means, effectively, if he can demonstrate on paper that this is the case, and if you cannot prove that his documentation is untrue), then yes, do participate in bearing a part or all of his ticket.

Perhaps this is worth thinking about. Now your son is 6, and has been used to seeing his dad once a week (or whatever frequency it is). If you move away, and the father says he can't afford the ticket to visit the boy, and you say you won't contribute, then it is very likely that your son will see his father less often.

I doubt you'll want to have a screaming 12-year-old or 14-year-old accusing you of having moved citeis and thereby kept him away from his father. Teenagers don't always put the facts together correctly, and they get angry with their parents, that's a normal part of their development. But will you be able to stand in front of your son, then, and to declare, honestly: "You know, when we moved, I did everything in my power to ensure that you and your father could keep in touch, nearly as much as when we all lived in the same city."

Perhaps it is worth working out your budget (for example, by using the model budgets at http://www.budgetberatung.ch/Alleinerziehende.94.0.html) so you can be very sure, before you get to Court and so you can demonstrate it there, just how much the train trips would cost (including if the father had a Halfprice Ticket, or some other kind of Abo), and how much of a dent that would make in your monthly budget, in proportion to your other expenses.
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