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Old 30.05.2017, 10:57
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Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

I've long been a big advocate of the Swiss Health Care System that we enjoy here, which is why I am baffled when people living here can still get so worked up over systems like the NHS and Obamacare having experienced what a good system is in place in Switzerland.

Here's a great piece in Forbes explaining the benefits of the Swiss system in comparison with that in the US.

Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System
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Old 30.05.2017, 11:18
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

Interesting article. I'm a big fan of Swiss health care too. It's not perfect, but has worked well in my experience.

Something important that I did not see there - the Swiss compulsory (basic) insurance does not earn a profit for the insurers - in fact, i believe that insurers are required to share profits for basic insurance. The supplimental plans are the money makers. That would be an interesting requirement for US insurers.

Also, each US insurer makes coverage deals with individual (or groups of ) care providers - docs, Hospitals, etc. there's a complex coding system for services rendered. This contributes to the enormous cost variation across US health care. Much more uniform here.
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Old 30.05.2017, 11:51
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

Personally for me, I do prefer the Canadian system. Although it is highly corrupt and full of waste, one never really sees any of the dollar values unless they do a lot of digging. In Switzerland I see every franc that goes into my treatment, and because of it (yes, because I'm cheap), I avoid many signs and symptoms that should be checked out. All in the effort to save as much of the 5K a year as I can.


Slightly analogous to how stores in North America never show prices with tax included---so you know exactly how much you are paying to the government.
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Old 31.05.2017, 11:42
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

But knowing the cost of things enables you to make good decisions about whether to go to the doctor or not.

For me going to the doctor is like 40-50 franks. Given that's 1 takeaway it seems good value.

I feel that relative to other services, like electrician or gardner, doctors are actually pretty similar and so feel cheap here.

I've lived in the UK before and I definitely find it easier and better here...
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Old 31.05.2017, 12:41
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

Wasn't it your friend that had to produce documents before having a giant gash on his leg treated?

If that's the standard of the best I'd hate to see what anything else is like
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Old 31.05.2017, 13:16
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

In my relatively limited experience (touch-wood), I have found the system here to be pretty business-like and transactional. Something I am reminded of every time I get a bill from this, that or the other. I have also found that the GP, hospital, lab etc.. are not always joined up when it comes to forwarding results or knowing your medical history. On the plus side everything is quick, efficient and the equipment used is all very new and state of the art.

I can only compare it to the NHS that I left circa 10 years ago, but it did seem that I had left a more caring, committed service which you sort of felt proud of.
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Old 31.05.2017, 13:25
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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In my relatively limited experience (touch-wood), I have found the system here to be pretty business-like and transactional. Something I am reminded of every time I get a bill from this, that or the other. I have also found that the GP, hospital, lab etc.. are not always joined up when it comes to forwarding results or knowing your medical history. On the plus side everything is quick, efficient and the equipment used is all very new and state of the art.

I can only compare it to the NHS that I left circa 10 years ago, but it did seem that I had left a more caring, committed service which you sort of felt proud of.
In my extensive experience here - kids in and out of hospital the whole time it seems due to accidents, I think the healthcare people here are as committed and caring as they were in the NHS.

The problem with the NHS is mainly that's it's run by accountants.
(Fast food places only in the hospital concourse and for the patients - fruit day is a Thursday).

Having said that, I'd avoid the Kantonspital Aargau here. A visit there in the last few days resulted in a plaster cast with an arm position that a patient with a non-broken arm would struggle to hold for more than five minutes without pain. A visit later that day to Kantonspital Luzern resulted in a replacement cast and the promise of a stern letter to the clowns at Kantonspital Aargau.
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Old 31.05.2017, 13:56
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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Wasn't it your friend that had to produce documents before having a giant gash on his leg treated?

If that's the standard of the best I'd hate to see what anything else is like
Nah, that was just Triemli, and I just put it down to the staff that were there at the time. And besides, that was for treating a foreigner not a resident. It's correct to ensure that visitors can cover their medical costs, it was the way they went about it that was bad. Better than the NHS, that welcomes plane loads from Lagos that are full of pregnant women.
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Old 31.05.2017, 14:01
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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In my extensive experience here - kids in and out of hospital the whole time it seems due to accidents, I think the healthcare people here are as committed and caring as they were in the NHS.
Luckily I haven't had major surgeries here so don't know what happens when one is in real pain.

I quite like the transactional approach .. because at the end of the day I want the best treatment and done as quickly as possible.

I have had one misdiagnosis of a torn ligament though. When I went to A&E straight from the football field the doctor there thought it was a muscle tear and sent me home. A few months later and every time I tried to do serious exercise it flaired up again. Turns out it was a ligament tear. This tear was diagnosed as a complete tear by one doctor (Triemli) who suggested surgery. I took a second opinion from a doctor at Hirsladen who said it was partial and I should just rest it for a few months. Oh and the doctor at Triemli said i can carry on playing because "it won't make anything worse"

Not great, but apparently the initial misdiagnosis is easy to do, as I've picked up a rare injury. But the guy at Triemli was a bit incompetent. At least I was able to get a second opinion with a specialist in such injuries at an expensive clinic, with a few days waiting and with no questions asked by the accident insurance. I don't think that would be easy/possible in the UK on NHS, you'd have to have private health insurance.
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Old 31.05.2017, 14:04
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

I suppose it depends on what "best" means and in what context, with what variables etc. Actually...

It hasn't. HTH.
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Old 31.05.2017, 14:51
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

I have had a mixture of good and bad here. The UniversitySpital in Zürich is exceptional, but an experience with a private clinic here was dire and that involved treating my young child.

If I had to compare it with the NHS, I would say that the expertise and experience in the NHS is second to none when dealing with serious illnesses, emergencies and children. If I were to compare the system as a system of having to pay my Krankenkasse every month and weigh up what I receive in return for that. I would much rather be paying my NI to the NHS.

The NHS subsidises prescriptions, doctors visits and treatments are free and in most cases my experiences have been really good, i.e. they cured all of my ailements.

But as you are Loz, I guess you would be happy to see the end of the NHS and a system where the poor don't get the treatment they deserve!
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Old 31.05.2017, 15:22
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

I've had some terrible incidents at Unispital:
1. Surgeon performed the wrong operation
2. Radiologist did not use the lead cap properly, and the doctor defended them.


But both of these were just useless individuals which could be in any country rather than due to the system.
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Old 31.05.2017, 15:27
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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But as you are Loz, I guess you would be happy to see the end of the NHS and a system where the poor don't get the treatment they deserve!
I'd happily see the end to the NHS for it to be replaced by the Swiss system. Note the poor in Switzerland have access to treatment when they need it.
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Old 31.05.2017, 15:41
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

Have to say if we'd stayed in the UK on the NHS system I would be dead by (whether that's a good thing or bad thing who knows ). My cancer was deemed inoperable by a specialist team in the UK, we moved to Switzerland and the Swiss said yes no problem and couldn't understand why the UK said no, my belief is that the UK couldn't afford to have the resources on standby if something complicated came up, which was possible as some major blood vessels were involved.

Also here in Switzerland I have access to all the chemo drugs available whereas in the UK NICE have prohibited there use.

I only have basic medical insurance but they have covered everything and they certainly do not make a profit out of me
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Old 31.05.2017, 15:59
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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I'd happily see the end to the NHS for it to be replaced by the Swiss system. Note the poor in Switzerland have access to treatment when they need it.
Stacking my experiences of the Swiss system vs the UK one, no contest. UK wins.

The CH system is IMO driven by squeezing as much money as possible out of its patients for not great treatment. Whether or not your medical professional is competent seems to be as much of a crap shoot as anywhere. But I've never had trouble seeing a doc in the UK when I've had a sick child. I have in CH. The treatment of her was, on one horrid day, utterly appalling. That will forever put me against the CH system. I will not be persuaded otherwise.
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Old 31.05.2017, 16:09
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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I will not be persuaded otherwise.
The NHS is a religion.
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Old 31.05.2017, 16:16
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

The NHS is good providig you have something interesting and rare. Anything that is run of the mill, unfortuantely remains so as NHS is crippled by excessive costs and procedures which happer what would be an excellent service.

When the NHS was set up, medical tschnology was basic, we wern't all overweight and we carefully died 2-3 years after retirement.

Nowadays people regularly live longer and indeed some people have spent more time in Education and on retirement than working.

Unfortunately the NHS is no longer fit for purpose, times have moved on quickly but the NHS is still in a 1950's scenario
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Old 31.05.2017, 16:18
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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The NHS is a religion.
No it's not. And you're just trying to get a rise because you're, I don't know, bored? You seem to be an oddly discontent person who enjoys bashing the UK.

I outlined why I wouldn't be persuaded and you removed the context. But have at it. It really doesn't matter, in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 31.05.2017, 16:22
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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The NHS is good providig you have something interesting and rare. Anything that is run of the mill, unfortuantely remains so as NHS is crippled by excessive costs and procedures which happer what would be an excellent service.

When the NHS was set up, medical tschnology was basic, we wern't all overweight and we carefully died 2-3 years after retirement.

Nowadays people regularly live longer and indeeI'm d some people have spent more time in Education and on retirement than working.

Unfortunately the NHS is no longer fit for purpose, times have moved on quickly but the NHS is still in a 1950's scenario
We also no longer have a post-war 1950s population. The NHS has to cater for a much bigger population than the Swiss one, that seems to be ignored too. But obviously us Brits just aren't as stoic...
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Old 31.05.2017, 16:30
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Re: Why Switzerland Has the World's Best Health Care System

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Stacking my experiences of the Swiss system vs the UK one, no contest. UK wins.

The CH system is IMO driven by squeezing as much money as possible out of its patients for not great treatment. Whether or not your medical professional is competent seems to be as much of a crap shoot as anywhere. But I've never had trouble seeing a doc in the UK when I've had a sick child. I have in CH. The treatment of her was, on one horrid day, utterly appalling. That will forever put me against the CH system. I will not be persuaded otherwise.
i am sorry that you had a terrible experience. But a sample size of one does not a bad system make.
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