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  #21  
Old 21.05.2018, 18:39
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

Diabetes along with many other metabolic and autoimmune diseases are also partly due to autonomic nervous system disfunction. Fix the brain/gut and you can help with recovery. https://www.nemechekconsultativemedicine.com/recovery/
I know a couple of people that have been on the Nemechek protocol and no longer have gluten intolerance.
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Old 21.05.2018, 18:42
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Diabetes along with many other metabolic and autoimmune diseases are also partly due to autonomic nervous system disfunction. Fix the brain/gut and you can help with recovery. https://www.nemechekconsultativemedicine.com/recovery/
I know a couple of people that have been on the Nemechek protocol and no longer have gluten intolerance.
I've heard that he can summon unicorns and help orphans to fly.
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  #23  
Old 21.05.2018, 18:56
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

You are touching (and blending together) so many different subjects I wouldn't even know where to start:
- types of disease (autoimmune, chronic, etc)
- what is alternative medicine/what is conventional
- the intentions behind the posts in this thread
- cured vs. managed vs. symptom free
- what in science can be declared definitive knowledge
- who actually makes the most money from sick people

..that's a lot! So I am not even going to try.

Still eager to hear about some positive experiences in managing diabetes, though.

Malsarforn, were those friends of yours already insulin dependant?
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  #24  
Old 21.05.2018, 19:20
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Still eager to hear about some positive experiences in managing diabetes, though.

Malsarforn, were those friends of yours already insulin dependant?
I can tell you about my mom - but it's not about alternative medicine or anything like that. She's having a diet that she tried her best to follow and not "stray out" of it, at least for the most part, well, excepting when the whole family is gathering.
She's taking long walks and uses her elliptical bike at least 20 minutes a day, so she covers the recommended physical activity quite well. She was never a "car" person anyway. We also have a country side house and she's there at weekends, gardening in fresh air. She's taking her medicines and goes to the regular check-ups....religiously. Back home, everything related to diabetes is pretty well covered up. Fortunately she's type 2.
I would be very worried if she tried some drastic diet tbh. But she knows that, she's a good kid. :-)
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Old 21.05.2018, 20:19
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

Prof. Roy Taylor of Newcastle University published a research paper in the Lancet showing Type 2 reversal following weight-loss on a very low calorie diet.

Prof Taylor is a respected endocrinologist. I don't think that the Lancet is big on alternative medecine or snake oil. Neither am I.
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Old 21.05.2018, 20:21
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

No, the two people I know were on oral medication, though one was takong two different types
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  #27  
Old 21.05.2018, 20:29
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Prof. Roy Taylor of Newcastle University published a research paper in the Lancet showing Type 2 reversal following weight-loss on a very low calorie diet.

Prof Taylor is a respected endocrinologist. I don't think that the Lancet is big on alternative medecine or snake oil. Neither am I.
His research showed that diabetes went into remission in some cases. It was not "reversed". The diabetes hadn't gone away.

This is exactly the kind of misleading language that I'm talking about.
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  #28  
Old 21.05.2018, 20:34
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Prof. Roy Taylor of Newcastle University published a research paper in the Lancet showing Type 2 reversal following weight-loss on a very low calorie diet.

Prof Taylor is a respected endocrinologist. I don't think that the Lancet is big on alternative medecine or snake oil. Neither am I.
I think DB is slightly wide of the mark, in that type 2 is really, for many people, a lifestyle disease. So if they change their lifestyle sufficiently they can 'reverse' it, i.e. no longer be suffering from T2 diabetes. They don't still 'have' T2 diabetes, as it's not a pathogenic or genetic condition, so they're either suffering from the effects of it or they're not.

But he's broadly correct in the inference, that reversal of the lifestyle changes will nearly always lead straight back to where they were before, i.e. they're still susceptible to the illness if they don't stick to a healthy diet and exercise regime.

I worked on some wannabe diabetes treatments, which were simply weight loss aids (none of which were approved as a T2 diabetes treatment) and is this sort of approach that can be 'dangerous' in leading people to the false belief that they can treat the illness without changing their lifestyle, which I think is what DB was alluding to.
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  #29  
Old 21.05.2018, 21:07
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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It's offensive because it is bullshit. It lulls people into a false sense of security. Of course diabetics can help themselves by eating a lower carb diet and losing weight, just as celiacs can help themselves by avoiding wheat, rye and barley, but that in no way means that they are cured, or that the diabetes has been "reversed". Glucose levels can be reduced by maintaining a careful diet, staving off some of the unpleasant consequences of diabetes for a while, but that doesn't mean the diabetes has gone away.

This is why I despise 'alternative medicine' so much: it's all promises, all false hopes - and somewhere, at the end of it, some bastard is making money out of it, even if only through advertising revenue from a youtube channel.
Sounds like jealousy

Regular medical treatments are also not 100% successful! Clinical medicine trials are considered successful when more than half of the trial patients show some improvement.
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Old 21.05.2018, 21:18
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Clinical medicine trials are considered successful when more than half of the trial patients show some improvement.
Where did you get that nugget of misinformation from?

HINT: it's not true. Not even slightly, vaguely or in the tiniest degree. It's utter nonsense.
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  #31  
Old 21.05.2018, 21:36
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Prof. Roy Taylor of Newcastle University published a research paper in the Lancet showing Type 2 reversal following weight-loss on a very low calorie diet.

Prof Taylor is a respected endocrinologist. I don't think that the Lancet is big on alternative medecine or snake oil. Neither am I.
There are also some negative effects of sudden weight loss and this very low diet is not indicated for everybody. We have to take into consideration many other things too. But I'm happy if it worked for your friends, or if it works for other people, in general. In my opinion, it's just not a panacea that will work for everybody.
Btw, not every diabetes patient is overweighted, or at least not so much above what is considered the limit and it can pose some risks on someone's health.
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  #32  
Old 21.05.2018, 22:21
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Nicotinamide Riboside is the hot new supplement for ameliorating type 2 diabetes. (Human dosage between 250mg and 500mg)

While I don't have diabetes, this is the supplement that makes old, fat mice dance and that's good enough for me.
To watch them?

Svenca - the brain/gut link isn't just diabetes related, it's been popular in other issues. Microbiome, etc.
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  #33  
Old 22.05.2018, 15:25
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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To watch them?
More in the hope that there's some kind of biochemical analog to old, fat humans. (And that's often not the case, many exciting mice results don't pan out in humans.)

The idea behind nicotinamide riboside is as a precursor for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+/NADH) which is then an activator (it also has other essential metabolic roles) for a group of enzymes called sirtuins which reproduce the effects of calorie restriction. E.g.:

Small molecule activators of SIRT1 as therapeutics for the treatment of type 2 diabetes.

That paper concerns reservatrol, which hasn't really panned out (the cools kids are now quaffing pterostilbene, its evil twin) and it's all fairly speculative at the moment, but there are human trials going on. So we'll know more in the future. It's also fairly expensive to take NR (about 100 francs a month), but I'm willing to be EF's pet ̶g̶̶̶u̶̶̶i̶̶̶n̶̶̶e̶̶̶a̶̶̶ ̶̶̶p̶̶̶i̶̶̶g̶̶̶ old, fat mouse...
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  #34  
Old 22.05.2018, 16:05
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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More in the hope that there's some kind of biochemical analog to old, fat humans. (And that's often not the case, many exciting mice results don't pan out in humans.)

The idea behind nicotinamide riboside is as a precursor for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+/NADH) which is then an activator (it also has other essential metabolic roles) for a group of enzymes called sirtuins which reproduce the effects of calorie restriction. E.g.:

Small molecule activators of SIRT1 as therapeutics for the treatment of type 2 diabetes.

That paper concerns reservatrol, which hasn't really panned out (the cools kids are now quaffing pterostilbene, its evil twin) and it's all fairly speculative at the moment, but there are human trials going on. So we'll know more in the future. It's also fairly expensive to take NR (about 100 francs a month), but I'm willing to be EF's pet ̶g̶̶̶u̶̶̶i̶̶̶n̶̶̶e̶̶̶a̶̶̶ ̶̶̶p̶̶̶i̶̶̶g̶̶̶ old, fat mouse...
Hmmmm. Might be easier to just give up the cakes, instead. Which grown ups kinda shouldn't eat, anyways. Civilisation deseases are a b%$#ch.
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  #35  
Old 22.05.2018, 16:13
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Hmmmm. Might be easier to just give up the cakes, instead. Which grown ups kinda shouldn't eat, anyways. Civilisation deseases are a b%$#ch.
I do that as well (not give them up completely, but only have them as an occasional treat). There are a whole swathe of lifestyle choices to be made in the quest for life extension.
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Old 22.05.2018, 16:46
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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I do that as well (not give them up completely, but only have them as an occasional treat). There are a whole swathe of lifestyle choices to be made in the quest for life extension.
This. And not only this, but the life style choices your mom and others did for you too. Being nursed as opposed bottle fed, being on the antibiotics million times as a kid, being around people who don't stay fit or who think fermented/gassy food is evil, etc. We adopt patterns that slowly kill us yet demand quick medicinal help when we get diagnosed. True life extention habits are not so fancy nor cost much but aren't popular in "pamper me" culture. I want to start drinking hot water instead of hot coffee and can't seem to motivate myself. Must be the research on positives of coffee
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Old 22.05.2018, 17:01
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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This. And not only this, but the life style choices your mom and others did for you too. Being nursed as opposed bottle fed, being on the antibiotics million times as a kid, being around people who don't stay fit or who think fermented/gassy food is evil, etc. We adopt patterns that slowly kill us yet demand quick medicinal help when we get diagnosed. True life extention habits are not so fancy nor cost much but aren't popular in "pamper me" culture. I want to start drinking hot water instead of hot coffee and can't seem to motivate myself. Must be the research on positives of coffee
We can't do anything about the choices made by others that affected us as kids. My view on this is to take sensible, small steps (no drastic lifestyle changes that can't be sustained) combined with a close watch on the research that's out there.

My problem hasn't been diabetes, but I certainly went into danger levels (> 100kg) with my weight. Making sustainable changes over the last year (apart from upping some of the fancy supplements and regular interval training on my bike, I converted to a basic form of inter-day fasting - generally not eating anything after a decent lunch for the majority of days) I've shed 10kg and will aim to shed another 5kg. And I do this still while drinking something like 50g of alcohol a day (love that red wine) - which engenders a whole swathe of supplements to ensure that the essential conversion of acetaldehyde to ethanoic acid isn't rate limited by a lack of glutathione. (Yea, I'm some kind of weird body hacker...)
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  #38  
Old 22.05.2018, 17:19
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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We can't do anything about the choices made by others that affected us as kids. My view on this is to take sensible, small steps (no drastic lifestyle changes that can't be sustained) combined with a close watch on the research that's out there.

My problem hasn't been diabetes, but I certainly went into danger levels (> 100kg) with my weight. Making sustainable changes over the last year (apart from upping some of the fancy supplements and regular interval training on my bike, I converted to a basic form of inter-day fasting - generally not eating anything after a decent lunch for the majority of days) I've shed 10kg and will aim to shed another 5kg. And I do this still while drinking something like 50g of alcohol a day (love that red wine) - which engenders a whole swathe of supplements to ensure that the essential conversion of acetaldehyde to ethanoic acid isn't rate limited by a lack of glutathione. (Yea, I'm some kind of weird body hacker...)
I'd say bravo! Just drop the demilitre of wine every day and do a bit of soulsearching about the lack of dopamine you are compensating with your red wine. Fasting is super efficient. You will work easier with your metabolic rate, though, if you lay off the supplements a tad, try it for two weeks. Again, your body thinks it is food. Like sweateners, yet it ain't. It messes with metabolism. Confuses our brain/gut fine balance and appetite reading. In this special spiritually motivated times of fasting, let's get inspired - while people do ramadan and it is not easy - you drop the wine and me coffee. You in? Anyone in? No sugar?
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Old 22.05.2018, 18:19
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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I'd say bravo! Just drop the demilitre of wine every day and do a bit of soulsearching about the lack of dopamine you are compensating with your red wine. Fasting is super efficient. You will work easier with your metabolic rate, though, if you lay off the supplements a tad, try it for two weeks. Again, your body thinks it is food. Like sweateners, yet it ain't. It messes with metabolism. Confuses our brain/gut fine balance and appetite reading. In this special spiritually motivated times of fasting, let's get inspired - while people do ramadan and it is not easy - you drop the wine and me coffee. You in? Anyone in? No sugar?
I do plenty of supplement 'holidays' (one or two days a week and a week every couple of months). I'm sorry, though, there's no way I'm giving up either red wine or coffee. I don't think either are detrimental to my health (especially coffee) and I think psychological health is very important - little treats like these are good for the psyche (e.g. there are few nicer things than drinking some wine with friends) and can be handled in health terms.
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Old 22.05.2018, 18:59
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

The choices are ours, especially changing perceptions, reprogramming what we got used to. Half liter of booze or cakes/sugar...you name it.

I don't even know why I drink coffee, it does keep me warm and pressure up, my metabolism is already too fast.
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