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Old 25.06.2017, 14:38
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New Diabetes trial treatment?

British doctors trial simple gut operation that 'cures or controls' diabetes, seems to be for Type 2 diabetes?

Francesco Rubino, professor of metabolic surgery at King's, told The Sunday Times: "About 50 per cent of patients are diabetes-free after these procedures.

Source

Can this be true?

Would be a huge step forward if it really works?
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Old 25.06.2017, 15:19
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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British doctors trial simple gut operation that 'cures or controls' diabetes, seems to be for Type 2 diabetes?

Francesco Rubino, professor of metabolic surgery at King's, told The Sunday Times: "About 50 per cent of patients are diabetes-free after these procedures.

Source

Can this be true?

Would be a huge step forward if it really works?
Haven't they shown that losing weight, changing your diet and taking a bit of exercise is more effective for many more than 50% of patients?

But hey, that's not a quick fix and requires a bit of effort.
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Old 25.06.2017, 15:28
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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But hey, that's not a quick fix and requires a bit of effort.
Since you've never been obese, how on earth would you know how much effort it takes?
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Old 25.06.2017, 17:16
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Haven't they shown that losing weight, changing your diet and taking a bit of exercise is more effective for many more than 50% of patients?

But hey, that's not a quick fix and requires a bit of effort.
Quite likely, but as you hint getting people to actually do it is another matter. Especially if you're a hard working parent who then has to cook meals for partner and a couple of teenagers who say "But I don't like ..." and "No, I don't want .... I want ..." You can end up cooking 4 different meals for everyone and who wants to be bothered to do that day after day? Easier to give in and give them all pizzas, etc.

Also have to weigh up the cost comparison between having such an op and having to take medicine and/or insulin for several decades if you get diabetes. It' a few hundred francs a year for those and would probably surpass the operation costs a few years down the line.
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Old 26.06.2017, 11:18
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Since you've never been obese, how on earth would you know how much effort it takes?
I tend to agree, however, I do think that if I was told I was at risk of type 2 diabetes, I would do my level best to stop it from becoming a reality before I had to go for the more drastic measures.

The non-surgical protocol that was shown to be effective is actually fairly short-term, between 8 and 12 weeks and you are accompanied by a doctor. It is a harsh protocol, but if you consistently struggle to make changes to your diet anyway, your problem is not food, it's using food as something other than nourishment. This is much harder to deal with and the sheer scale of emotion that is connected to food is quite unfathomable for those people who do not have this unhealthy relationship.

I'm in two minds about this approach becoming common knowledge. On the one hand, I am a strong believer in self-efficacy and taking responisibility for your health. On the other hand, I've always struggled with my weight, even before I got hypothyroidism and despite having the sort of nutrition and fitness knowledge you typically find in an excellent personal trainer, I struggle to put what I know into practice. The negative reactions you get for being overweight are not helpful and knowing how certain mouthbreathers like to pick up on certain aspects of research but not others, it could make things worse for those who are overweight for psychological reasons and who wish they weren't.

However, I do know several people who will openly say that they simply like to eat and don't give a damn if they are fat - for some reason I struggle with this attitude. If you have no ill effects on your health, fair enough, but this is often not the case. Medicine is a two-way street, and deciding to do what the hell you want and then expect doctors to put you back together is just immature and destructive. This doesn't just apply to overeating; if you want healthcare to stay around for all, you need to make sure that you don't cause unnecessary costs.
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Old 26.06.2017, 18:05
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

Very mature post & opinions, thank you for it. It's easy for us with strong metabolism / time to do frequent exercises and then look down on those who don't do the same and regard them as lazy but it's very unfair.

I think this is mostly mental and same goes for the only permanent cure available - one has to embrace physical suffering in form of exercise, break the harsh entry barrier and get to the point where not exercising makes you feel bad & guilty for losing hard-won strength, stamina and overall great-feeling. Then obvious tricks like cutting away anything sweet, after few weeks it's very nice state of well being but initially it can be hard. There are tons of info about nutrition out there, and most of it is actually OKish, unlike snake oil of various diets.

Just one remark - bowing down to what kids don't like to eat (not meaning some allergies/digestion issues but simple spoiliness) is a mistake IMHO - I grew up in household, even as only child, where what was cooked for whole family was eaten, single meal, no variations. If I didn't want to eat it, I could be hungry which quickly cured me from being spoilt little bragging brat. Of course I hated this, but looking back it was a very good decision of my parents (pretty normal back then). So cooking 4 meals just because some complain is not a good idea, but that's my personal opinion.
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Old 26.06.2017, 18:17
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

I agree, it was the same when I was a kid. These days though some parents seem to pander to every little thing their kids want.
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Old 17.05.2018, 07:56
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

New test which may help people with either type of diabetes.

"Doctors in Edinburgh believe a simple blood test they have introduced could allow some Type 1 diabetes patients to come off insulin.

The Western General hospital team say the test has identified previously unrecognised variants of the condition.

A routine screening programme was set up after medics discovered one patient had a genetic form of diabetes.

They say it has "transformational" results which, for some people, could mean the end of daily injections."

"He said: "If we identify that somebody has a genetic type of diabetes, it can have a transformative effect on their life.

"Also, if we can establish that an individual has another form of diabetes, such as Type 2 diabetes, again there may be alternative treatments to insulin that we can offer them.

"So I think it is a very important and potentially transformative test."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-44144678
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Old 17.05.2018, 09:54
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

The Diabetic Brain
https://www.nemechekconsultativemedi...abetic-brains/
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Old 18.05.2018, 12:43
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

Couldn't find any proper information on this miraculous surgery. Did anyone find anything? I am curious..

I am always amazed how quickly certain discussions - specially when it concerns eating patterns/lifestyle vs. health - get polarized and even borderline aggressive. On this subject I find myself somewhere in the middle.

I am not overweight or have diabetes but I do suffer from celiac disease. I had to, overnight, completely adjust my lifestyle and eating habits, in order to become healthy again. (You can argue that nowadays there are plenty of gluten free substitutes and one can carry on almost as before, but I do not each such things, as they are not really that healthy. So, complete lifestyle change here.) It never crossed my mind to cheat on my diet, as many do.
This means, I think I am in a good position to understand some of the problems discussed.

On one hand, I feel blessed that my disease can be reversed without any medication, surgeries or treatments; so I cannot understand how someone would prefer to have a surgery instead of actually addressing the root cause of their health issues.
On the other hand, I do recognize that weight loss and diabetes management are pretty much impossible tasks with the advice being given today to most people. As far as I know, Sweden is the only country that has updated their recommendations on diabetes treatment (but not on general diet or weight management). Therefore, most overweight/diabetic people are stuck in a very unfair situation that most don't even get.

However, I do not understand how time consuming people find it is to have an healthy diet. I prepare once a week the vegetable soup and wash the salad I'll eat the rest of the week. Then one can quickly come up with something to go with it (meat, eggs, fish, hummus, steamed veggies, rice, potatoes...). If there is time, cook something more interesting, cook lots of it and freeze for some other time. For example, last week I made 5 batches of homemade (and kid friendly) Ragu bolognese, 4 of them now sit in the freezer.
But that's just me, I guess.

In conclusion, I would prefer skipping any drastic treatments and would be much more interested in looking into one of these alternatives:

Reversing Type 2 diabetes starts with ignoring the guidelines | Sarah Hallberg | TEDxPurdueU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1vvigy5tQ

(yes, her voice is very annoying)

Her newest study just came out in April and seems to have spectacular results:
- the paper: https://link.springer.com/article/10...300-018-0373-9
- the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N2o2Ux7Lw0
- the advertising for the treatment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UGauD22Ni8

Has anyone tried something similar? I would be interested in finding out for a family member.
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Old 18.05.2018, 20:07
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

Has anyone tried Michael Mosley's 8-week blood sugar diet? I know two people who have reversed their type 2 diabetes after following it, but I dont see them often enough to have asked for details. Were they hungry, what foods did they eat, did they need any supplements, etc.
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Old 18.05.2018, 20:24
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Has anyone tried Michael Mosley's 8-week blood sugar diet? I know two people who have reversed their type 2 diabetes after following it, but I dont see them often enough to have asked for details. Were they hungry, what foods did they eat, did they need any supplements, etc.
Nicotinamide Riboside is the hot new supplement for ameliorating type 2 diabetes. (Human dosage between 250mg and 500mg)

While I don't have diabetes, this is the supplement that makes old, fat mice dance and that's good enough for me.
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Old 18.05.2018, 20:26
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

It's all bollocks. You can hold off the symptoms for a bit with a strict diet, but sooner or later it'll come back and bite you on the arse. Talk of "reversal" is just tabloid bullshit. Once you've got it, you've got it for life.
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Old 18.05.2018, 20:35
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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It's all bollocks. You can hold off the symptoms for a bit with a strict diet, but sooner or later it'll come back and bite you on the arse. Talk of "reversal" is just tabloid bullshit. Once you've got it, you've got it for life.
Diabetes is a breakdown in a biochemical process. While some rinky-dinky diet or flavour-of-the-month supplement may not cure it currently, I don't believe it can't be cured.
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Old 21.05.2018, 15:42
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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It's all bollocks. You can hold off the symptoms for a bit with a strict diet, but sooner or later it'll come back and bite you on the arse. Talk of "reversal" is just tabloid bullshit. Once you've got it, you've got it for life.
Type 1, as an autoimmune disease, is surely not reversible, but type 2 is a completely different beast.
However I do get your point, no one can expect that a magic supplement made out of the horns of organically fed unicorns to cure it. On the other hand, in my humble opinion, I find that the people who excuse themselves from any responsibility in outcome, concerning the lifestyle they choose to lead, are fooling themselves as well.
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Old 21.05.2018, 15:50
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Type 1, as an autoimmune disease, is surely not reversible, but type 2 is a completely different beast.
Nope. Type 2 too. It can be managed, not cured. "Cured" implies that the sufferer can go back to chocolate cake and ice cream once the diabetes is "reversed". They can't. Once you're diabetic, you're diabetic.

All this talk of cures and reversals is irresponsible and cruel. It needs to stop.
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Old 21.05.2018, 16:03
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

Both of the people I know have had normal glycemic levels for the last two years after a) losing weight and b) controlling their dietary intake of sugar. In both cases, they were crossed off the list of diabetic patients at their surgeries after one year.
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Old 21.05.2018, 16:08
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Both of the people I know have had normal glycemic levels for the last two years after a) losing weight and b) controlling their dietary intake of sugar. In both cases, they were crossed off the list of diabetic patients at their surgeries after one year.
That's great to hear: but they're still diabetic. It'll come back, sooner or later. There is no cure for this condition.
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Old 21.05.2018, 17:25
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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All this talk of cures and reversals is irresponsible and cruel. It needs to stop.
Why?
No one here is trying to convince anyone else to pursue any treatment or trying to sell anything.
A few people came together to share what they have been reading on the subject and to ask other EF members if they had any positive results with similar therapies... at least that was my intention.
I fail to see why that can be offensive or hurtful, but I do apologise if I was. I know I can get easily carried away when talking about nutrition..
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Old 21.05.2018, 17:34
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Re: New Diabetes trial treatment?

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Why?
No one here is trying to convince anyone else to pursue any treatment or trying to sell anything.
A few people came together to share what they have been reading on the subject and to ask other EF members if they had any positive results with similar therapies... at least that was my intention.
I fail to see why that can be offensive or hurtful, but I do apologise if I was. I know I can get easily carried away when talking about nutrition..
It's offensive because it is bullshit. It lulls people into a false sense of security. Of course diabetics can help themselves by eating a lower carb diet and losing weight, just as celiacs can help themselves by avoiding wheat, rye and barley, but that in no way means that they are cured, or that the diabetes has been "reversed". Glucose levels can be reduced by maintaining a careful diet, staving off some of the unpleasant consequences of diabetes for a while, but that doesn't mean the diabetes has gone away.

This is why I despise 'alternative medicine' so much: it's all promises, all false hopes - and somewhere, at the end of it, some bastard is making money out of it, even if only through advertising revenue from a youtube channel.
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