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Old 19.10.2017, 11:30
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Whaaaaat...
Oh yeah baby. Objectifying of the crassest kind: roughly the equivalent of "You're such a sweet 'lil lady, you'd be the perfect catch."

From guys I mostly got "That's cool, who taught you that?", and the odd "I can only bbq, but I'm lucky that Levis come in my leg length."

Sewing isn't so hard, it's a lot like welding, just without the dark glasses. And changing diapers is a doddle if you've got a large enough c-clamp to hold the child still.
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Old 19.10.2017, 11:34
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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that was just a film????
I know it was just a film, but it sparked a heated debate right across the English speaking World. It also came at a time when my mum wasn't well, and my dad was the primary care giver, despite being self-employed and working 7 days a week.

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Judging by the looks I get when I take the children to the park, I'd say not.
That's really sad.

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Mothers will be criticised and punished whatever they do or feel, and usually the harshest critics are other mothers who seem to think they hold all the answers, know what's best and aren't afraid to dish out the judgy-judge-judge stick.
Mumsnet being a prime example.
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Old 19.10.2017, 11:36
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Oh yeah baby. Objectifying of the crassest kind: roughly the equivalent of "You're such a sweet 'lil lady, you'd be the perfect catch."
Are you little?





Ok, ok...
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  #24  
Old 19.10.2017, 11:38
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Mumsnet being a prime example.
Christ, I wouldn't touch Mumsnet. As a new mum I had a fumble around the site after my son was born, innocently looking for some tips and other's experience.

Silly me.
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Old 19.10.2017, 11:38
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Are you little?





Ok, ok...
Help help, a moderator is objectifying me! I feel so debased.

Could you continue on with a Cz accent please?
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Old 19.10.2017, 11:46
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Help help, a moderator is objectifying me! I feel so debased.

Could you continue on with a Cz accent please?
Hahaha, only if you speak like Peterson, abut stuff that interests me, e

I don't have an accent, unfortunately. Musicians don't, much, flakey fiends. Or, it is a mutt of a Lancashire, NYC, NO, some Cali words and definitely mispronounce bamboo, a word I try to use as much as possible to get the right accent but without success. Maybe a faint Norhtern Bohemia there.

I'd assume guys taking kids out, get special treatment/attention from fellow female parents, but maybe Peterson is right.

Even if that article groups life stories that are different since the situations are caused by different conditions, maybe the common criteria were the possible effects on kids, not the reasons the chicks left for. To present it as a gender issue, or try to sensibilize readership to certain atittudes..not sure if it worked. The moms might not have known how the text will come out at the end, actually. Not really girl-power.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 19.10.2017 at 12:08. Reason: edited - courtesy to Tom
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Old 19.10.2017, 12:05
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Hahaha, only if you speak like Peterson, abut stuff that interests me, e

I don't have an accent, unfortunately. Musicians don't, much, flakey fiends. Or, it is a mutt of a Lancashire, NYC, NO, some Cali words and definitely mispronounce bamboo, a word I try to use as much as possible to get the right accent but without success. Maybe a faint Norhtern Bohemia there.

I'd assume guys taking kids out get special treatment/attention from fellow female parents, but maybe Peterson is right.

Even if that article groups life stories that are different since the situations are caused by different conditions, maybe the criteria were the possible effects on kids, not the reasons the chicks left for. To present it as a gender issue, or try to sensibilize readership to certain atittudes..not sure if it worked. The moms might not have known how it will at the end come out, actually. Not really girl-power.
Could you translate that into English, please?

Tom

P.S. Isn't it a bit early in the day to be hitting the bottle?
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  #28  
Old 19.10.2017, 12:06
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

I think what's been made clear over the last week or so (if it wasn't obvious before) is that selfishness, abuse of power, manipulative behaviour and general unpleasantness are not determined by the arrangement of one's genital organs. All that's different is the perception.

Can human behaviour be changed? No chance!

Can perceptions be changed? Maybe. You can certainly change what people say - but can you change what they think? I'm not convinced.
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  #29  
Old 19.10.2017, 12:06
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Hahaha, only if you speak like Peterson, abut stuff that interests me, e

I don't have an accent, unfortunately. Musicians don't, much, flakey fiends. Or, it is a mutt of a Lancashire, NYC, NO, some Cali words and definitely mispronounce bamboo, a word I try to use as much as possible to get the right accent but without success.

I'd assume guys taking kids out get special treatment from fellow female parents, but maybe Peterson is right.
My accent isn't that far off from Peterson's, perhaps a bit less twangy, with a slight Scots burr (dad was a Scot, and it's not far off from the phonemes of German).

I don't mention the Bible much, unless I'm talking about lit, or religion.

You do get tagged first and foremost as a guy when you enter a traditionally female domain, and this tinges a lot of the evaluations (which we all make, as a way of storing the world in a convenient shorthand). I'm sure DB will corroborate.

The key here is that you're a male entering a female domain. I don't know what it's like to be a woman looking for something in a tool shop, but I do know what it's like to be a male looking for something in a sewing shop. I'm not offended by it, but it did take about 5 or 6 visits before the staff realized that I was looking for a specific fabric/thread/needle/material, and that I didn't need explaining that I would need a needle, and I'd have to measure carefully etc.
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Old 19.10.2017, 12:08
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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My accent isn't that far off from Peterson's, perhaps a bit less twangy, with a slight Scots burr (dad was a Scot, and it's not far off from the phonemes of German).

I don't mention the Bible much, unless I'm talking about lit, or religion.

You do get tagged first and foremost as a guy when you enter a traditionally female domain, and this tinges a lot of the evaluations (which we all make, as a way of storing the world in a convenient shorthand). I'm sure DB will corroborate.

The key here is that you're a male entering a female domain. I don't know what it's like to be a woman looking for something in a tool shop, but I do know what it's like to be a male looking for something in a sewing shop. I'm not offended by it, but it did take about 5 or 6 visits before the staff realized that I was looking for a specific fabric/thread/needle/material, and that I didn't need explaining that I would need a needle, and I'd have to measure carefully etc.
I've spent most of my life working in largely female environments.

When I say "me too", I mean it.
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Old 19.10.2017, 12:11
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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I've spent most of my life working in largely female environments.

When I say "me too", I mean it.
Mrs Doubtfire? I knew it!!!
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  #32  
Old 19.10.2017, 12:25
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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My accent isn't that far off from Peterson's, perhaps a bit less twangy, with a slight Scots burr (dad was a Scot, and it's not far off from the phonemes of German).

I don't mention the Bible much, unless I'm talking about lit, or religion.

You do get tagged first and foremost as a guy when you enter a traditionally female domain, and this tinges a lot of the evaluations (which we all make, as a way of storing the world in a convenient shorthand). I'm sure DB will corroborate.

The key here is that you're a male entering a female domain. I don't know what it's like to be a woman looking for something in a tool shop, but I do know what it's like to be a male looking for something in a sewing shop. I'm not offended by it, but it did take about 5 or 6 visits before the staff realized that I was looking for a specific fabric/thread/needle/material, and that I didn't need explaining that I would need a needle, and I'd have to measure carefully etc.
It is hard to tell for me, really, to orient myself in prejudice since I grew up with brothers, with best friend who was a boy and with a gang of boys - we did sci-fi camps, chess championships and had a band together. I was looking for a tool in a toolshop, metaphorically speaking, my entire life. My parents have the same jobs and my hobbies are not particularly chick, me thinks. My good friend, he is about 60, would always share his sewing stories with me, and my dad is a weaver, by trade (all people had to have a trade), so the best fabric info I needed I always gotten from dad. I think I do not pay attention, mostly, to gender stuff, since any kind of stereotyping is pretty unintelligent. En plus, we have a really bad sense of humor where I am from, probably stems from centuries of crappy oppression, so people rip on anything.

So, it is hard for me to imagine, somewhat. The struggle for power, in gender issue, is a bit strange to somebody who believes in complementing eachother as much as people can, for the sake of their bond and kids who need the bond.

I wonder - if stereotypes always have a bit of truth in it, and if the stories all have more practical background behind...
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  #33  
Old 19.10.2017, 12:38
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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So, it is hard to me to imagine, somewhat. The struggle for power, in gender issue, is a bit strange to somebody who believes in complementing eachother as much as people can, for the sake of their bond and kids who need the bond.

I wonder - if stereotypes always have a bit of truth in it, and if the stories all have more practical background behind...
That's what I meant above by "zero sum game". What possible benefit do you gain from seeing your partnership in the context of "What I miss must have been taken from me".

Let's face it, stereotypes are a convenient, cartoonish way of dealing with the world around is by not processing the detail. Isn't the point of a relationship that you look at the detail (effectively saying "yes, this specific one, even if the only dish he can cook is a grilled pork chop.")

Stereotype aren't always right, neither are they always wrong. Even a long piece of string is only made of individual short bits, but you only notice that if you look at it close enough that the length of the bit of string falls out of focus.
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Old 19.10.2017, 12:54
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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That's what I meant above by "zero sum game". What possible benefit do you gain from seeing your partnership in the context of "What I miss must have been taken from me".

Let's face it, stereotypes are a convenient, cartoonish way of dealing with the world around is by not processing the detail. Isn't the point of a relationship that you look at the detail (effectively saying "yes, this specific one, even if the only dish he can cook is a grilled pork chop.")

Stereotype aren't always right, neither are they always wrong. Even a long piece of string is only made of individual short bits, but you only notice that if you look at it close enough that the length of the bit of string falls out of focus.
Mais oui. Caricatures, shortcut algorithms, which work, though, quite well in the press, since they reinforce whatever people look for.

Then, let't have a look at the press, which is trying to group some kind of situations to suit a particular agenda. I wonder if processed meals were advertised on the opposite page of the journal article. Or vacuum cleaners?

If some stereotypes linger and are more reinforced by media, what works against them..opposing stereotypes? Quotas? That's what bugs me. If a situ has been stereotypically one way, a chick at home, a guy at work - is a way to change it, as the 1st aid measure, the opposing stereotype? Girls leaving home? Or is it going to hurt women more, at the end, since everybody will immediately think they are selfish.

They just introduced a day care for less than 3yr olds at home, and the avalanche of psychologist protesting is uncanny.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 19.10.2017 at 13:07.
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  #35  
Old 19.10.2017, 13:02
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Mais oui. Caricatures, a shortcut algorithms, which work, though, quite well in the press, since they reinforce whatever people look for.

Then, let't have a look at the press, which is trying to group some kind of situations to suit a particular agenda. I wonder if processed meals were advertised on the opposite page of the journal. Or vacuum cleaners?

If some stereotypes linger and are more reinforced by media, what works against them..opposing stereotypes? Quotas? That's what bugs me. If a situ has been stereotypically one way, a chick at home, a guy at work - is a way to change it, as the 1st aid measure, the opposing stereotype? Girls leaving home? Or is it going to hurt women more, at the end, since everybody will immediately think they are selfish.

They just introduced a day care for less than 3yr olds at home, and the avalanche of psychologist protesting is uncanny.
WTAF are you on about?
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Old 19.10.2017, 13:20
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Christ, I wouldn't touch Mumsnet. As a new mum I had a fumble around the site after my son was born, innocently looking for some tips and other's experience.

Silly me.
Isn't more like I'm a better mum than you are, a better wife etc etc, my family is better and my kids simply brilliant compared to yours?
Women can be very competitive in that area.
If I want parental advice I read books. Just for orientation, anyway..
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Old 19.10.2017, 13:24
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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Sewing isn't so hard, it's a lot like welding, just without the dark glasses.
I've said before, I was taught to knit by a guy in the merchant navy.
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And changing diapers is a doddle if you've got a large enough c-clamp to hold the child still.

Reminds me of some of the ingenious parenting solutions my male friends have developed.
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I wonder - if stereotypes always have a bit of truth in it, and if the stories all have more practical background behind...
The article is pretty shoddy journalism at best, but beyond stereotypes, there can be a disconnect between the natural desire to reproduce, and the nurturing instinct and skills to follow it through to fruition.

My partner and my best mate are both incredible with babies. They just have the knack of being able to soothe a screaming, crying baby and have endless patience with them.
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Old 19.10.2017, 13:26
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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And changing diapers is a doddle if you've got a large enough c-clamp to hold the child still.
Best blokey advice I ever read for changing diapers: hold the kid's ankles like you're returning bottles to the bar.

Gotta capitalise on your transferable skills!
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Old 19.10.2017, 13:30
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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I've said before, I was taught to knit by a guy in the merchant navy.

Reminds me of some of the ingenious parenting solutions my male friends have developed.
The article is pretty shoddy journalism at best, but beyond stereotypes, there can be a disconnect between the natural desire to reproduce, and the nurturing instinct and skills to follow it through to fruition.

My partner and my best mate are both incredible with babies. They just have the knack of being able to soothe a screaming, crying baby and have endless patience with them.
I know people like that, and to have somebody disrespect them, is pretty weird.
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Old 19.10.2017, 14:27
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Re: Mothers move out of family home to pursue "dreams"

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I read an article recently about stay at home dads, where the mother went out to work, and the % of marriages that then broke down once the kids left home, it was unusually high, it seems the woman no longer felt she needed the man as he no longer bought anything to the table so to speak, of course the man is left with bugger all, no job, no network of friends, no prospects and (usually) no house.

So everyone asking for equality, be careful what you wish for
Sounds pretty equal to what happens to many women when the husband is the family earner. He goes off with a younger fluzzie, she ends up with no job, no network of friends, no prospects and sometimes no house.
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