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  #21  
Old 29.11.2017, 19:05
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

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....
But this question is about the one or two days bad cold, fever, stomach problems, flu scenario. As a permanent employee and no mention of taking holiday days in my contract, can my employer force me to use up my holiday when I'm justifiably off sick for a day or two ?
The
Is there a Swiss work law about this on the internet ?
I repeat: They all have their own rules. The Swiss rule is: If you have a doctor's certificate they must pay. So do get one from the first day. They'll hate it )

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Thank you everyone for the lively debate around my question.

I think the point that someone mentioned about no paid sick leave during the first 3 month trial period is interesting. I would not have considered this period as affecting illness and entitlements at all. Imagine you're hired in January. The stress of a new job and any colds/flu in your team could easily lead to a day or two in bed or on the sofa.

Where did the 3 month rule come from ?
The 3 month trial period is in OR (Obligationenrecht - Swiss Code of Obligations, you're welcome to read it while with a cold on the sofa, it will get you back to work in no time, it's rather dry literature).
And you can have the flue or a cold during the trial period. They all have their own rules. The Swiss rule is: If you have a doctor's certificate they must pay. So do get one from the first day...... oh, I'm repeating myself.

And an other thing: Stop worrying about getting a cold, you're basically attracting it magnetically
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  #22  
Old 29.11.2017, 23:28
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

I have a certain number of paid sick days per year that I don't need a doctor's certificate. After that number is used up, any sick days without a certificate are charged from my annual leave.

At 3 consecutive days of illness I need a certificate anyway. If I don't present one then again my annual leave can be reduced.

This seems fair enough. Everyone gets sick for a day or two once in a while, but maybe not sick enough to need the doctor. It's silly to require a note for one day. At the same time, unlimited paid sick days can be abused.

Double-check the wording of your contract.
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  #23  
Old 07.12.2017, 15:48
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

Some companies try to deceive people about this, 9 out of 10 people somewhat foolishly trust what their company or employment contract says even if it is below the legal standard, the other 1 out of 10 people insist on getting paid and use their trade union or Rechsschutz to enforce it in the unlikely event the employer is belligerent about it.

If you are going to be an employee, pay all the taxes, etc you may as well get the benefits too so don't feel ashamed to insist on your statutory sick pay.

One big tip: you should never tell your employer the reason you are sick and they have no right to ask you. The doctor will never write a reason on the medical certificate. (Always get a doctor's note of course). If they know the reason you are sick they can make a legal argument that your illness didn't prevent you from doing some leisure activities and they can deduct it from your vacation days. If the doctor's note doesn't give any reason and if you tell them "the illness is a private matter" then they have no way to avoid paying.

Naturally, many employers now monitor your social media for evidence that you went to ski or to see if you commented on your illness. Think Miranda rights
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  #24  
Old 07.12.2017, 15:54
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

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If they know the reason you are sick they can make a legal argument that your illness didn't prevent you from doing some leisure activities and they can deduct it from your vacation day

Think Miranda rights
No legal argument as it can be refuted simply by stating what the doctor allowed you to do.

Too bad Miranda does not work here TIS
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Old 07.12.2017, 15:59
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

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Think Miranda rights
We're not in the US.
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Old 07.12.2017, 17:20
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

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I repeat: They all have their own rules. The Swiss rule is: If you have a doctor's certificate they must pay. So do get one from the first day. They'll hate it )
Nope, not if there's a (Kranken-)Taggeldversicherung and the contract says no pay for the first x (up to three) days.

See the quote/link provided in #11.
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Old 07.12.2017, 17:20
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

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No legal argument as it can be refuted simply by stating what the doctor allowed you to do.
It is actually a messy area.

Example: your job requires driving, you have a hand or arm injury that prevents you driving but you don't have to stay home either, you could go out walking in the hills or do shopping for example. Some nasty employers would fuss about this. Better to tell them nothing.

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Too bad Miranda does not work here TIS
It does: the right to silence is universal. Just delete your facebook account, get used to saying "that matter is private", shut your mouth and you limit the amount of food available for the lawyers to eat.

If an employer insists on quizzing you about an illness, ask them directly, "why do you need to know? Don't you trust me? Should I be looking for another job?" If they value you, they will stop bothering you and if they continue to bother you, find a better job.
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Old 07.12.2017, 17:35
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

Having read your other posts, not sure if that is really good advice.

And by the way, you can delete whatever you want on FB, it is still out there and retrievable.
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  #29  
Old 07.12.2017, 17:58
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

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Nope, not if there's a (Kranken-)Taggeldversicherung and the contract says no pay for the first x (up to three) days.

See the quote/link provided in #11.
That would be "new" then. It used to be the employer's decision what kind of insurance to chose (with the 3 "Karenztage" being the most popular) but also the employer's responsibility to cover the "Karenztage".

They must have changed that sometime during my healthy decades.
Still, it doesn't seem fair as the employee has no say in the choice of insurance.
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Old 08.12.2017, 16:01
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

A few years ago a woman was fired for posting on Facebook while off sick with a migraine. Fair enough, I say...
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Old 08.12.2017, 16:35
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

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A few years ago a woman was fired for posting on Facebook while off sick with a migraine. Fair enough, I say...
It's amazing how many people add work colleagues to the Facebook account, or make their posts public. It's just asking for grief.
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  #32  
Old 08.12.2017, 17:17
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Re: Forced to use holiday days when off sick ?

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That would be "new" then. It used to be the employer's decision what kind of insurance to chose (with the 3 "Karenztage" being the most popular) but also the employer's responsibility to cover the "Karenztage".

They must have changed that sometime during my healthy decades.
Still, it doesn't seem fair as the employee has no say in the choice of insurance.
Quite the contrary, they have "always" existed and were used, the longer since the more. For me this search returns two PDFs in the top two positions (Gastgewerbe and Maler- und Gipsergewerbe) that are 10 years old. One general contract they refer to is 20 years old.
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