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Old 13.01.2018, 21:51
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Physical [child] custody for two non swiss?

Hi,
Sadly I think my marriage is ending and I am worried what might be in store regarding our children. Parents are swedish (me) and spouse british. We have two children 2 and 4 years old. They are both born here and have joint swedish/english citizenship.

My husband have a c-permit but I still have a b-permit for another couple of months. He works and I am not working but have been a stay at home mum since the birth of my first child (who was also the reason for moving to swizerland - I never worked here)

Does anyone have any idea what will happen in case we divorce?

I do not want to stay in the country if we divorce (unless legally forced to), I have no job and no extended family here. I am also not sure if I would even be allowed to stay. My visa is dependent on being married to my working husband.


My husband has been suffering from a depression lately (the reason to break up) - including self harm would this affect the custody situation?

Thank you,
Lola
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Old 13.01.2018, 22:04
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

Sorry to hear this lisa270. You'll find info on divorce here including custody.

https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce/

The default is joint custody, but individual circumstances can be taken into account. The welfare of the child/children is the guiding factor.
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Old 13.01.2018, 22:50
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

If the formal divorce proceedings have not yet started then start them in Sweden where you will get the best result
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Old 13.01.2018, 23:32
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

Marton: what makes you say that?
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Old 13.01.2018, 23:34
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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Marton: what makes you say that?
Because the divorce laws in Switzerland are not favourable for women, much better in Sweden
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Old 13.01.2018, 23:39
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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If the formal divorce proceedings have not yet started then start them in Sweden where you will get the best result
That is if they would be allowed to get a divorce in Sweden, with none of them living in Sweden this is all but certain (me bet would be a no), and even if so the default is that there is a six month waiting period due to their children.
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Old 13.01.2018, 23:40
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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Because the divorce laws in Switzerland are not favourable for women, much better in Sweden
Proper divorce laws should not be favourable to any of them.
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Old 13.01.2018, 23:41
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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That is if they would be allowed to get a divorce in Sweden, with none of them living in Sweden this is all but certain (me bet would be a no), and even if so the default is that there is a six month waiting period due to their children.
You should not give advice when you do not know the rules
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Old 13.01.2018, 23:48
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

Getting a divorce in Sweden is very cheap and straightforward. You don't even need to visit a court house. Because of that, many couples with at least some connection to Sweden tries to file for divorce in Sweden.

You need to file for divorce at the court your city belongs too.
If neither of you live in Sweden, it's usually but not always, Stockholms tingsrätt (court of Stockholm) that will have jurisdiction. You need to create a "gemensam ansökan om skilsmässa", which is the basic document needed to file for divorce. Or a "stämningsansökan" if your spouse doesn't want to get a divorce. A spouse can never stop you from getting a divorce in Sweden.

The court's application fee is currently 900 SEK, or roughly $105

The most popular way to divorce in Sweden is online, through www.skilsmassaonline.se. It's the biggest online divorce firm in Sweden and have offered online divorces since 2003. They have a special package for foreigners called "Utlandspaketet". Answer a few questions on their online order form and they will handle all the paperwork for you, including ordering your "personbevis".

When you order the package, they will find out if you can divorce in Sweden. If they find out that you cant, they wont charge you anything.
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Old 13.01.2018, 23:58
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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Proper divorce laws should not be favourable to any of them.
Different countries have different laws.
Sensible people choose to divorce in the country that is most favourable for them.

The lady in question has a B permit and no job, she is supported by her husband.

If she divorces in Switzerland then she will lose the right to stay here, then it is very unlikely a court will give her custody of the children; this is why Sweden is the best solution for her.
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Old 14.01.2018, 02:52
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

EF, escalating custody battles since...I don't even know.

;-)
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Old 14.01.2018, 07:05
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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Sorry to hear this lisa270. You'll find info on divorce here including custody.

https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce/

The default is joint custody, but individual circumstances can be taken into account. The welfare of the child/children is the guiding factor.
Joint authority is the norm now, which means that both parents can make (and need to agree!) major decisions about the child’s life.

Custody, which is not the same at all, is still usually given to the mother.
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Old 14.01.2018, 09:22
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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Joint authority is the norm now, which means that both parents can make (and need to agree!) major decisions about the child’s life.

Custody, which is not the same at all, is still usually given to the mother.
Bad translation again then, since the link on this is entitlted Parental Authority, but refers to it as custody in the text.
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Old 14.01.2018, 09:58
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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Bad translation again then, since the link on this is entitlted Parental Authority, but refers to it as custody in the text.
It is indeed bad translation.
When I refer back to the text in French what they write in English as custody is 'autorité parentale' in French. It is rare for the parental authority to be granted to only one parent but sole custody is not unusual ( garde de l'enfant in French).
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Old 14.01.2018, 10:09
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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If she divorces in Switzerland then she will lose the right to stay here, then it is very unlikely a court will give her custody of the children; this is why Sweden is the best solution for her.
unlikely. she is an EU national and will have income because of alimony. as she is here for more than 3 years and the husband is living and working here, it is unlikely that children (and wife) have to leave.
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Old 14.01.2018, 10:12
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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Custody, which is not the same at all, is still usually given to the mother non-working parent.
FTFY.

Tom
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Old 14.01.2018, 11:29
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Re: Physical [child] custody for two non swiss?

She doesn't want to stay anyway folks, please read the OP again. But the point is unless her spouse agrees to her taking the children out of the country she will have to stay here and would get a permit which allows her to do so or the spouse would get sole custody and she'd have to leave the country. Unless of course there are special circumstances which, if her spouse is suffering from depression and self-harming, may grant her sole custody and parental authority.

Whether Sweden has the same joint parental authority rules I don't know, but this is something the OP needs to investigate if she wants to try that route.
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Old 14.01.2018, 13:21
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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Getting a divorce in Sweden is very cheap and straightforward. You don't even need to visit a court house. Because of that, many couples with at least some connection to Sweden tries to file for divorce in Sweden.

You need to file for divorce at the court your city belongs too.
If neither of you live in Sweden, it's usually but not always, Stockholms tingsrätt (court of Stockholm) that will have jurisdiction. You need to create a "gemensam ansökan om skilsmässa", which is the basic document needed to file for divorce. Or a "stämningsansökan" if your spouse doesn't want to get a divorce. A spouse can never stop you from getting a divorce in Sweden.

The court's application fee is currently 900 SEK, or roughly $105

The most popular way to divorce in Sweden is online, through www.skilsmassaonline.se. It's the biggest online divorce firm in Sweden and have offered online divorces since 2003. They have a special package for foreigners called "Utlandspaketet". Answer a few questions on their online order form and they will handle all the paperwork for you, including ordering your "personbevis".

When you order the package, they will find out if you can divorce in Sweden. If they find out that you cant, they wont charge you anything.
Very irritating that you say that I should not give advice, and then you quote a page on the web and leave out exactly those things that I refer to.

Quote:
First of all you need to figure out if you are eligible to get a divorce in Sweden. If you aren't eligible, your case will be rejected and you won't get your application fee back.

Here are few circumstances that might prevent you from getting a divorce in Sweden:

Your marriage isn't registered in Sweden.
None of have residency in Sweden.
Another EU member state has jurisdiction.
The laws surrounding jurisdiction are very complicated and you are advised to check with a Swedish lawyer if you have doubts.
And:

Quote:
It normally takes a few weeks to finalize your divorce. But if you have any children below 16, you will need to wait 6 months for your final verdict. The same is true if your spouse refuses to divorce you. There are some exceptions to this rule. Advice with a Swedish lawyer.
So the exact same page that you quote is saying exactly what I am saying.

Anything you want to say about this?
http://skilsmässa.se/juridik/divorce-sweden
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Old 14.01.2018, 15:01
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Re: Physical [child] custody for two non swiss?

Dear Lisa,

I haven't been here in a very long time, but I can't not comment on your request.

First, I'm very sorry for you. I've also left my husband recently. Parts of our stories are similar, parts aren't comparable at all.

I didn't work either when I decided to end the relationship, and even worse, I'm not even an EU national and I'm on a dependant B-permit. So in a way, I'm even more vulnerable than you. But I did some research, and apparently I'm not that vulnerable. You see, as we have agreed on 50-50 custody (in reality it's more 60%-40% in my favour because he travels a bit for work), he pays me alimony (he's being extremely fair in this) and our son has spent most of his life in CH, the chances that I am expelled are extremely low. I even have a lawyer's opinion that I might get a C-permit even without a job, since husband and son get theirs automatically, or at least an independant B that buys me a few more years to find a job. That because the mother is important in a kid's life and Swiss authority value that, while at the same time aknowledging that our son is integrated enough to be allowed to stay here. But yes, it's an uncomfortable, stressful situation to feel that your right to stay literally hangs on your ex's willingness and ability to support you financially.

But where we differ is that you want to leave. Which leads me to ask you, if going back to Sweden is best for you, what do you think is best for your children? Is it better for them in your opinion to move back to Sweden and potentially lose contact with their dad (you say he has problems with depression). Or is this home for them and they have a close relationship to both parents? Because we came with totally opposite conclusions. Junior needs his dad (almost) as much as he needs me and he's very vocal about it. CH is his home, that much has also been made very clear to us.

My son's dad would probably have preferred to move back to his home country. I have no "home" to go back to anywhere since I've been gone most of my life, so here is pretty ok in my mind. Since he's very close to his son, he's agreed that we should all try to stay here and make the best of the situation. We live within walking distance of each other, I'm due to start working soon (hurray!) and the plan is that we will all stay here at least until our son is old enough to be autonomous or at least until he doesn't need the both of us to be with him on a regular basis. A "neutral" country that is neither his nor mine seemed a reasonable compromise.

You, your husband and your kids are the only ones to know what's best for your family. My solution may be light years away from what you guys need. But take time to consider everyone's best interest. The romantic relationship may end, but ideally you can manage to be parents together in the children's interest (provided he's a reasonably good dad). I can recommend a nice Zürich based lawyer who's a strong supporter of amicable separations and divorces if you need someone to advise you.

Good luck!
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Old 15.01.2018, 09:22
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Re: Physical custody for two non swiss?

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If she divorces in Switzerland then she will lose the right to stay here, then it is very unlikely a court will give her custody of the children; this is why Sweden is the best solution for her.
Actually it appears to be the other way round, the children's rights and wellbeing trump everything else in the cases where the parents can't agree on an amicable solution. The children have been here all their life so they may be granted permanent residency. If that happens, and as a consequence, the parents may be forced to stay too, especially if one decides to do so on his free will.
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