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  #41  
Old 14.03.2018, 09:29
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

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Good point. Didn't think about that. As if surgery itself wasn't stressful enough, then one has to deal with the employer and insurance complexities.
even worse is if there are complications, you need to go back to the hospital in a foreign country.
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  #42  
Old 14.03.2018, 10:31
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

This is where I am struggling to understand now.

The insurance clause says that no benefits are granted for 1. treatment 2. care 3. childbirth taken abroad.

What if someone makes the "treatment" abroad (i.e. surgery), but the "care" (i.e. home-training for the first 4 weeks) in Switzerland? how would that work?

In general I am also trying to figure what is the point of having the clause... what difference does it make where you get treated?
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  #43  
Old 14.03.2018, 11:01
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

Marks, is your doctor in Switzerland involved in, or helping to coordinate, any of your treatment plans?
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  #44  
Old 14.03.2018, 11:03
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

Hi Meloncollie,

No he's not really involved in this, would it make a difference in your view?

thank you!
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  #45  
Old 14.03.2018, 11:09
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

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Hi Meloncollie,

No he's not really involved in this, would it make a difference in your view?

thank you!
Where would you go for after-care? Check-ups? Medication if any needed?
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  #46  
Old 14.03.2018, 11:26
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

I was planning on doing my entire re-habilitation in a specialized center in Italy, including all of this.

Once I am back, I'd probably speak my GP (it's a bit of a stretch to say "MY" because in 5 years I have been only 2/3 times to him) if needed.

So far, I only informed him about my coming surgeries but I didn't involve him in the coordination of it.
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  #47  
Old 14.03.2018, 13:40
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

Did I get this right- you intend to have 1 surgery in 1 country and the other in another one? Could they not argue this will add quite a bit of extra time off?
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  #48  
Old 14.03.2018, 13:53
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

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Did I get this right- you intend to have 1 surgery in 1 country and the other in another one? Could they not argue this will add quite a bit of extra time off?
This is why this nonsense isn't covered.

Tom
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Old 14.03.2018, 14:09
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

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Hi Meloncollie,

No he's not really involved in this, would it make a difference in your view?

thank you!
To my mind - and IME - you might be wise to at least discuss your plans with your Swiss doctor. The discussion might present options here you might not have been aware of.

I have found that key to navigating the more opaque ins and outs of the system here is finding the right gatekeeper. A bad GP can be a hindrance - but a good GP (or other doctor) can help open doors that otherwise might seem to be closed to you.

You mention that your wish to do the first surgery abroad was based on need for family support during recovery, as well more trust in surgeons back home. That's understandable, I too have weighed up those concerns when making decisions where to seek treatment.

If trust in local surgeons is a concern, discuss that with the GP. Perhaps he or she can put your mind at ease, or help you get in with a different surgeon or hospital.

If support during recovery is a concern, your GP here can help set up services like Spitex visits to your home. I understand how daunting surgical recovery can be when one has no family or support network here; Spitex can be a godsend.

A friend lives alone in a flat with stairs that would not have been manageable during post-surgery recovery, even with Spitex visits. So knowing her home situation her GP sent her to a rehab clinic to recover, and convinced the KK to cover her stay. I visited her often at the rehab clinic and can say that the level of care was excellent.

Just some things to consider wrt the first surgery.

All the best...
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Old 14.03.2018, 14:48
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

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Did I get this right- you intend to have 1 surgery in 1 country and the other in another one? Could they not argue this will add quite a bit of extra time off?
Hi Odile, thanks for pointing this out. imho this is not the case, as I booked the surgeries in advance and with the exact distance recommended by the doctors.

Going from 1 country to the other takes 2 days (Saturday and Sunday) in the worst case, being driven by a family member.

This could be easily demonstrated providing all the relevant, I wouldn't have a single problem in sharing all the details.

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This is why this nonsense isn't covered.

Tom
St2lemans, I don't think your comment makes sense to be honest.

As I mentioned if it's well organized, there is no extra time off. And I am not sure why you are speaking about "non-sense".
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  #51  
Old 14.03.2018, 14:59
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

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To my mind - and IME - you might be wise to at least discuss your plans with your Swiss doctor. The discussion might present options here you might not have been aware of.

I have found that key to navigating the more opaque ins and outs of the system here is finding the right gatekeeper. A bad GP can be a hindrance - but a good GP (or other doctor) can help open doors that otherwise might seem to be closed to you.

You mention that your wish to do the first surgery abroad was based on need for family support during recovery, as well more trust in surgeons back home. That's understandable, I too have weighed up those concerns when making decisions where to seek treatment.

If trust in local surgeons is a concern, discuss that with the GP. Perhaps he or she can put your mind at ease, or help you get in with a different surgeon or hospital.

If support during recovery is a concern, your GP here can help set up services like Spitex visits to your home. I understand how daunting surgical recovery can be when one has no family or support network here; Spitex can be a godsend.

A friend lives alone in a flat with stairs that would not have been manageable during post-surgery recovery, even with Spitex visits. So knowing her home situation her GP sent her to a rehab clinic to recover, and convinced the KK to cover her stay. I visited her often at the rehab clinic and can say that the level of care was excellent.

Just some things to consider wrt the first surgery.

All the best...
Hi Meloncollie, thank you for this.

And I think you raised a very valid point, having a good and helpful GP is key in this country.

So far I have been lucky enough to rarely need one, and so I didn't have the opportunity to form this kind of relationship. My mistake in not realizing the importance of this, definitely it will be my first point in the agenda when I am back.

For thre trust in surgeons, this is something I didn't find here yet and therefore decided to change country. But higher than trust is competence, something I haven't found fully here, sometimes I feel the surgeons / physio I have seen here are 10 / 15 years back compared to other countries. It may as well be I went to the wrong place, I couldn't say...

I heard of Spitex and indeed you'd need a very good doctor to get accepted for that I assume. I can't comment knowing exactly, but I guess having your close ones in this situation is unreplaceable.
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  #52  
Old 14.03.2018, 15:49
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

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Hi Meloncollie, thank you for this.
And I think you raised a very valid point, having a good and helpful GP is key in this country.
...
For thre trust in surgeons, this is something I didn't find here yet and therefore decided to change country. But higher than trust is competence, something I haven't found fully here, sometimes I feel the surgeons / physio I have seen here are 10 / 15 years back compared to other countries. It may as well be I went to the wrong place, I couldn't say...
The "trust in surgeons" comes, to a large extent, through good coordination by the GP. Like in every other field, there are surgeons and surgeons, and finding the right match is partly your work but partly the work of the local GP who, after all, has a network here, also of research/forefront surgeons. I realise, though, that you've probably already done a lot of research yourself..

I know this may be too late, as you seem to have made your decision already, but I think that Meloncollie has hit the nail of the head, by mentioning the GP (Hausarzt oder -─rztin). If I may draw an analogy (without meaning to offend): you're plans sound a little like those folk who decide to go ahead and hire their preferred contractors to build a house, yet have not checked with the local authorities, nor hired an architect (because they haven't yet met one they trust), about the overriding principle, laws, not tapped into their existing networks to get the job done.


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I heard of Spitex and indeed you'd need a very good doctor to get accepted for that I assume.
You assume incorrectly. Perhaps you do so because you have not discussed the ops and post-op care thoroughly with a coordinating GP.

Spitex (a contraction of "Spital" meaning Hospital and "ex" meaning external) is nursing provided in the patient's home. Spitex nurses provide basic care such as showering, helping one to the toilet, etc. through changing bandages and giving injections, up to complex procedures involving wounds or burns, etc.

To get this nursing, you need only have a prescription from a doctor. As you would for physiotherapy.

Spitex nursing is an ordinary service and covered by the basic medical insurance ("Grundversicherung"). It is common practice for post-op care to be provided this way, for house-visits from 15 minutes to up to about 2 hours per day. If needed, the nurse could even come by more than once a day.

If the nursing is likely to be more intense than that, for a first recovery phase, the doctor can prescribe so-called A▄P (Akut- und ▄bergangspflege, translated acute and transition nursing) for a maximum of 14 days. This must be performed by a nurse/spitex firm which has a special, additional licence as an A▄P provider. It can be up to 4 hours per day, typically broken into two or three blocks.

Unlike the prescription for standard home-nursing, which any doctor can issue at any time for anything he/she is treating or involved in, the special A▄P prescription must be issued BEFORE the patient leaves the hospital.

I doubt that a prescription by a doctor outside Switzerland would be considered valid for home-nursing in Switzerland, neither by the Spitex company nor by your medical insurance. Therefore, if your hospitalisation is outside of Switzerland, this would automatically disqualify you from receiving A▄P. However, once you come back to Switzerland, if you still need nursing, your doctor (GP?) could prescribe it for you.

P.S. Although some Spitex companies also provide household services (cooking, cleaning, laundry) these are generally not covered by the medical insurance. There are exceptions. A short phase post-op may be one of these.
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  #53  
Old 14.03.2018, 16:03
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

??? you are deciding to go abroad for surgery they do here day in day out, hip replacements are not exactly new, and you wonder why the insurance co. won't cover you?? what is your issue with going to your gp, and getting it all sorted here??? personally I'd take a swiss hospital over an italian one any day of the week. Totally bizarre
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  #54  
Old 14.03.2018, 16:06
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

I got hassled by the bureaucracy when I was in Intensive care in a 6-7 weeks coma. Forgot to inform my employer I was ill and get a doctors Zeugnis.
I did not fill in the correct forms within the correct time frames. Got sacked after 5 weeks for not answering my mails or phone.
Took me nearly a year to rectify things.
You need a good life partner who understands your whole finances and commitments in this country, or you will wake up in the Salvation Army
Make sure you have someone here in case something goes wrong.
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Old 14.03.2018, 22:04
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

Wow, jbrady, that sounds harrowing!

Bad enough to have gone through such serious health issues, but then, in addition, to have your life crumble, as it were, while you were out of action... that must have been a huge achievement, to have made your way through that year.
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Old 17.03.2018, 08:21
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Re: Sick leave payment while taking surgery abroad

Hi All,

Short update... by the way the 10 weeks are "per event", not per year as someone may think.

So I guess I'll be fine after all have a great weekend
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