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  #21  
Old 13.04.2018, 20:32
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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I honestly can't fathom why this is being discussed on EF, am open to input
Why shouldn't it be? Or do you think there's something shameful about it? Or is it too controversial? Over 70% of women will never have an abortion.
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  #22  
Old 13.04.2018, 20:57
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Why shouldn't it be? Or do you think there's something shameful about it? Or is it too controversial? Over 70% of women will never have an abortion.
No, don't " think there's something shameful about it". Not at all.
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  #23  
Old 13.04.2018, 21:42
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-po...ion-issue.html

Abortion has been discussed a few times on the forum. Nevertheless, it's an issue that shouldn't be swept under the cover and the negative stigma attached to it needs be addressed again and again. Seeing how the US seems to be taking steps backwards in regards to abortion scares me for the future generations of women and their right to choose.
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  #24  
Old 14.04.2018, 00:07
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I imagine the NHS funded ones were obvious as they were in the UK.

But I can't imagine one asking a woman who has had an abortion how it was financed.
Or asking at all about it, even, maybe..I get the tip-toeing the society promotes, it is indeed a private and sensitive issue for a lot of people. People just voluntarily don't really come out with it, do they, and I get them. I also know that the women around me who had them - didn't want them but had to have them. How that feels, considering the ease to share all that to friends and family, even..probably not easy. So, even if you do not know about it, maybe it is not really the case of these things not happening, but happening discretely. A case of discrete pain.
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  #25  
Old 14.04.2018, 12:19
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

There is a huge difference indeed, between shouting it on roof tops- or discussing it with someone (often older) whom you can trust, or as part of a small support group (how I go to know about many women in many countries who went through this ordeal) and for me too, as a 6th Form advisor (for students aged 16-19) in my care.
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  #26  
Old 14.04.2018, 12:38
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

The original post was about funding by taxes, not about being paid by insurance.

Clearly, it will cost the insurance companies far less to pay for an abortion than for a birth, and is thus a good thing.

But in the US, as what the original post was about, the question is about funding via taxes.

The tread split was stupid.

Tom
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  #27  
Old 14.04.2018, 13:08
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

I find the reasoning: "You got pregnant, now if you want an abortion you should have to pay for it yourself!" shortsighted. It seems to me that any country which allocates at least some government spending on dealing with the potential long-term social consequences of an unhappy childhood with (or perhaps without) parents who could not cope with having and caring for children, would spend less by carrying the costs of an abortion.

I'm surprised to read that anyone could possibly reach adulthood not knowing anyone who had had an abortion.

For my part, I've been involved in conversations with women who needed an abortion urgently, who have been told by the impregnator to get an abortion even when they didn't want to themselves, who had to choose for medical reasons an abortion when they really wanted the baby, who had been forcefully subjected to an abortion against their will, who regretted aborting, who regretted not having been able to abort when they had wanted to, and, depending on their circumstances, who needed to figure out the issue of funding the abortion (or the child). Aren't the conversations around these issues just a normal part of trying to figure out the more difficult aspects of life?
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  #28  
Old 14.04.2018, 16:17
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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I find the reasoning: "You got pregnant, now if you want an abortion you should have to pay for it yourself!" shortsighted. It seems to me that any country which allocates at least some government spending on dealing with the potential long-term social consequences of an unhappy childhood with (or perhaps without) parents who could not cope with having and caring for children, would spend less by carrying the costs of an abortion.
I like your logic. I just hope such a ruthless cost and benefit approach will not get extended to other social state spendings, unless it is on voluntary basis, then go for it :-)

Last edited by yacek; 14.04.2018 at 17:01. Reason: typo
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  #29  
Old 15.04.2018, 14:58
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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... unless it is on voluntary basis...
Yes, with regard to abortion, I meant it entirely on a voluntary basis. Having witnessed the deep damage that forced abortion does to women, I am definitely opposed to any woman being subjected to the procedure unless she herself had chosen it (as one option, often very sad, out of all the options) of her own free will.

Making the decision to abort is stressful, and no woman in that position needs further trouble because she has to worry about how to find the money to get it done.
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  #30  
Old 15.04.2018, 17:30
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The original post was about funding by taxes, not about being paid by insurance.
IMHO the difference is insignificant with mandatory health insurance. Especially whenn considering the fact that one third or so of the health costs are funded by taxes.
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From the way it was described to me, it's almost never illegal. If someone needs an abortion after twelve weeks, there's a problem with the mother or the fetus and it's legal. There's no weird dogma here.

At least that's what we were told while waiting for genetic testing.
That's my impression as well. However that's rare, some 95% take place during the first 12 weeks.
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  #31  
Old 16.04.2018, 15:06
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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I'm surprised to read that anyone could possibly reach adulthood not knowing anyone who had had an abortion.

For my part, I've been involved in conversations with women who needed an abortion urgently, who have been told by the impregnator to get an abortion even when they didn't want to themselves, who had to choose for medical reasons an abortion when they really wanted the baby, who had been forcefully subjected to an abortion against their will, who regretted aborting, who regretted not having been able to abort when they had wanted to, and, depending on their circumstances, who needed to figure out the issue of funding the abortion (or the child). Aren't the conversations around these issues just a normal part of trying to figure out the more difficult aspects of life?
In the interests of fairness, I'd like to add the men who are (or are not) involved.

I mean at least those men who have told the woman they had sex with to get an abortion, those with deep regret for having so done, those who are so grateful and relieved that she did have the abortion, those who hate their parents for having pressurised them into pressurising her to have an abortion which they subsequently think was the wrong thing to have done, those men who grieve because they would happily have kept the baby and raised the child but the woman chose to abort anyway, those who shared the longing for a child with their wives but who were advised to abort for medical reasons, and those who become the partners of women who were formerly forced into having an abortion against their will.

For many of these men, too, there is a lot of stress around the question of an abortion, and worrying about having to find the money for the abortion (or to provide for the child) makes things much worse.
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  #32  
Old 16.04.2018, 15:13
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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I'm surprised to read that anyone could possibly reach adulthood not knowing anyone who had had an abortion.
Why? I am well into adulthood and I don’t know anyone at all who has had an abortion, or if they have they haven’t told me about it.
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  #33  
Old 16.04.2018, 15:25
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

Yes, I really do find that surprising. Perhaps because I have, indeed, had conversations with women and with men as above. I think the first such conversation I can remember was when I was about 13.

Conversations with people directly confronting this issue at school, churches, mosques, youth groups, Girl Guides, sports groups, college, work situations, university, community health, women's groups, support peripheral to men's groups, self-awareness/development/personal growth groups, management seminars, neighbours and friends male and female.

Perhaps not talking about it is a cultural matter. Everyone deals with their own feelings about the more difficult aspects of life differently.

Or perhaps the need to make it a topic conversation is less, precisely wherever the funding is not a central, heavy and oftentimes very urgent factor.

Last edited by doropfiz; 16.04.2018 at 16:10.
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  #34  
Old 16.04.2018, 15:44
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Yes, I really do find that surprising. Perhaps because I have, indeed, had conversations with women and with men as above. I think the first such conversation I can remember was when I was about 13.

Conversations with people directly confronting this issue at school, churches, mosques, youth groups, Girl Guides, sports groups, college, work situations, university, community health, women's groups, support peripheral to men's groups, self-awareness/development/personal growth groups, management seminars, neighbours and friends male and female.

Perhaps not talking about it is a cultural matter. Everyone deals with their own feelings about the more difficult aspects of life differently.

Or perhaps the need to make it a topic conversation is less, precisely wherever the funding is not a central, heavy and oftentimes very urgent factor.
Do not forget that members on EF come from different cultures, and even if the culture is the same the background might still be completely different.

If I look at myself I only know one person who had an abortion, and she had it before I even knew her, for the rest it was the common thing in my surroundings to stick with a girl if you hook her up, or use proper precautions when doing it with someone you do not want to stay with anyway. And after having settled and the family is complete the guys mostly took the cut to prevent unwanted pregnancy's (and the damn hassle with condoms..)
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  #35  
Old 16.04.2018, 15:59
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

Yep, abortion is much cheaper than using a condom.
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  #36  
Old 16.04.2018, 16:11
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Do not forget that members on EF come from different cultures, and even if the culture is the same the background might still be completely different.
Yes, exactly. That's why I wrote:
"Perhaps not talking about it is a cultural matter."
and
"Everyone deals with their own feelings about the more difficult aspects of life differently."
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  #37  
Old 16.04.2018, 16:12
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Yep, abortion is much cheaper than using a condom.
Wow! I hope you wouldn't imagine yourself saying that to someone directly affected by an abortion.

Last edited by doropfiz; 17.04.2018 at 21:30. Reason: typo
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  #38  
Old 16.04.2018, 16:16
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Wow! I hope you wouln't imagine yourself saying that to someone directly affected by an abortion.
You're right.

Sorry.

I prefer to hide behind the computer screen and have a different persona. I have never said anything directly to anyone.

I swear.
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  #39  
Old 16.04.2018, 16:19
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

Other than for rape victims and women who are medically unable to have children due a condition found during their pregnancy, I don't see why the tax payer should have to fork out for women to have an abortion.

Pregnancy, like AIDS, is the most avoidable condition in the developed world.
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  #40  
Old 16.04.2018, 16:22
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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And after having settled and the family is complete the guys mostly took the cut to prevent unwanted pregnancy's (and the damn hassle with condoms..)
Good on those men for choosing those two routes and not lumping the responsibility of contraception on the woman. Those choices shows a commendable attitude of co-responsiblity.

Carrying it out is, too, is a factor of a vasectomy being available and affordable. Ditto the condoms.
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