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  #61  
Old 17.04.2018, 08:26
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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It's only 100% preventable if you sustain from having sex.

I take offence at your remark that a woman is stupid or forgetful if she becomes pregnant and then wants to abort the fetus.
But that's not what I said. What I said was that a woman who gets pregnant that "don't take medications on schedule, don't take the right dose, forget altogether, take other things that interact with each other" is preventable. That you find this offensive is neither here nor there.

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There are far more underlying reasons why a woman may want to terminate a pregnancy.

- change in relationship
- change in career
- unplanned pregnancy due to the risk of birth control measures
- health reasons

... and many more reasons

Don't be judgemental of women faced with the decision to have an abortion. In my eyes, it's a mysogynistic, ignorant view of women and life in general.

Peace.
I'm not judgmental. If you want to have an abortion then go for it. Just don't expect others to pay for it.
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  #62  
Old 17.04.2018, 08:26
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

It is very interesting to see the cost factor mentioned in good faith more than once in this thread.
Nobody else sees it as abhorrent?
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  #63  
Old 17.04.2018, 10:47
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Fair point. 2 out of 1000 is still some way off the abortion rate, and every woman that gets pregnant accidentally through failure of the pill won’t have an abortion. Ipso facto getting pregnant without wishing to do is still easily preventable.
How high is the abortion rate? And what percentage of those with an unwanted pregnancy have an abort, on average?
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  #64  
Old 17.04.2018, 10:49
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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And what percentage of those with an unwanted pregnancy have an abort
I asked my mum. She said zero.
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  #65  
Old 17.04.2018, 10:58
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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How high is the abortion rate? And what percentage of those with an unwanted pregnancy have an abort, on average?
The abortion rate is about 15-20 abortions per 1000 women in Western Europe. There's no way of answering the second part of your question.

In the end it doesn't matter, the point remains the same. Why should others have to pay for your abortion? It's like getting flashed for speeding then expecting the tax payer to cough up your fine.
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  #66  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:09
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Why should others have to pay for your abortion?
Insurance, not the tax-payer.

And for the same reason insurance pays for pregnancy, and medical conditions in general.

Tom
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  #67  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:11
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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In the end it doesn't matter, the point remains the same. Why should others have to pay for your abortion? It's like getting flashed for speeding then expecting the tax payer to cough up your fine.
Moot point. Why should I pay for your numerous children?

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Insurance, not the tax-payer.

And for the same reason insurance pays for pregnancy, and medical conditions in general.

Tom
Get those brats in school, etc etc


You know, if we are to think in these terms....we CAN. Let's the fun begin.
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  #68  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:11
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Moot point. Why should I pay for your numerous children?
You shouldn't.
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  #69  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:14
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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You shouldn't.
Yeahhh, in an ideal world. You know very well how things go in real life. ;-)
But glad to see you discovered what we pay for more....
Priorities people, priorities.


How about preventive health care, education, family planning care? Wouldn't that pay off with time? And be 10 times more efficient than demonising women who choose to have an abortion?
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  #70  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:15
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Why should others have to pay for your abortion? It's like getting flashed for speeding then expecting the tax payer to cough up your fine.
I sort of see your point, but why should others pay for my greed, or other people's smoking related diseases or ski accidents?

Essentially, the solution would be scrapping of health insurance and having everything self-funded.

Personally, I'd rather fund free birth control and associated education (and still fund the abortions for those that need them, of course).
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  #71  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:18
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Personally, I'd rather fund free birth control and associated education (and still fund the abortions for those that need them, of course).
This.
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  #72  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:25
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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I sort of see your point, but why should others pay for my greed, or other people's smoking related diseases or ski accidents?

Essentially, the solution would be scrapping of health insurance and having everything self-funded.

Personally, I'd rather fund free birth control and associated education (and still fund the abortions for those that need them, of course).
I don't believe others should pay for your greed or smoking related diseases or skiing accidents. This is partly the reason why the NHS in the UK is so broken, because people refuse to to take responsibility for themselves and are happy for others to pick up the tab.

The insurance system here is better because if you wanted an abortion in theory you'd at least have to share some of the burden (I've no idea if abortions are provided excess free).

Education is key and that should be funded, but beyond that, tough luck.
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  #73  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:36
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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According to government figures, the cost of a termination of pregnancy ranges from CHF600-3,000. ($670-3,350). The average cost of a pharmacological termination is CHF650 and a surgical termination comes to CHF1,000.

Overall, the costs are estimated at about CHF8 million a year. If treatment following an abortion is included, they are CHF10-12 million. This represents about 0.05% of all the costs that are covered by compulsory health insurance. However, a part of the cost is assumed directly by the pregnant women (deductible and percentage of costs to be paid) and is thus not incurred by the health insurance fund.

It is thought that these costs correspond to an average charge of CHF0.05-0.06 a month per insured person, as health minister Alain Berset told parliament.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/voters-...rance/37889424
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  #74  
Old 17.04.2018, 12:45
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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It is very interesting to see the cost factor mentioned in good faith more than once in this thread.
Nobody else sees it as abhorrent?
I believe it's a very traumatic experience for a woman, which should be avoided at all costs, but whether it's morally abhorrent or not it's a very private sphere discussion, so to speak. I do get your point, but I think it's very subjective. Let's not get there or this thread will end up in tears, EF style...
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  #75  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:33
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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I believe it's a very traumatic experience for a woman, which should be avoided at all costs, but whether it's morally abhorrent or not it's a very private sphere discussion, so to speak. I do get your point, but I think it's very subjective. Let's not get there or this thread will end up in tears, EF style...
Whilst that's true, I only know of 3 women that have had abortions (nothing to do with me), one woman had had 5, 3 whilst married to her current husband of 20 plus years.
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  #76  
Old 17.04.2018, 15:41
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Pregnancy, like AIDS, is the most avoidable condition in the developed world.
Dude, you are so wrong!

Just like some people have unexplained infertility, others seem to be hyper fertile and find contraception simply doesnt work for them as well as it does for others. Do you feel the same about funding IVF?
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  #77  
Old 17.04.2018, 15:47
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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one woman had had 5, 3 whilst married to her current husband of 20 plus years.
That sounds like abortion was her personal means of birth control.
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  #78  
Old 17.04.2018, 15:48
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Personally, I'd rather fund free birth control and associated education (and still fund the abortions for those that need them, of course).
AFAIK you do, sex education (also in the broader sense, beyond pure biology) is part of the mandatory school curriculum.
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  #79  
Old 17.04.2018, 15:55
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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It is very interesting to see the cost factor mentioned in good faith more than once in this thread.
Nobody else sees it as abhorrent?
Until you find doctors , nurses and hospitals who "work for free" it's a perfectly reasonable and arguably necessary discussion point. Not dealing with cost aspects for all goods is irresponsible.
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Old 17.04.2018, 16:06
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Dude, you are so wrong!

Just like some people have unexplained infertility, others seem to be hyper fertile and find contraception simply doesnt work for them as well as it does for others. Do you feel the same about funding IVF?
Absolutely. Why should taxes pay for couples to have IVF? Especially when it's so expensive, has about a 30% success rate and there are plenty of kids in the world in need of loving homes. Whilst I sympathise with couples who can't conceive, it's really their problem and no one else's. If you want to have kids and go for IVF, then by all means do so, however you should stump up the cash and you should take the risk that it doesn't work.
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