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  #81  
Old 17.04.2018, 17:24
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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it's really their problem and no one else's.
Same would be true when you get diagnosed with cancer, by the way.
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  #82  
Old 17.04.2018, 17:41
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

I'm going to get scolded for this one, but yes, in this day and age and where we live, no one has to get pregnant who doesn't want to or who isn't simply neglectful. Sure it happens, but I do agree it is avoidable.

Let me make this very clear: this is NOT the case for the majority of the world. But it is in the Western world, for the most part anyway. Access to contraceptives, any really, is easy and quick and fairly cheap.

I highly doubt most women use abortion as a means of birth control and to insinuate as such based on one or two anecdotes is too out there. Abortion isn't a walk in the park, so no, most women certainly have zero interest in getting one on a regular basis.

That all said, there's no doubt for me that abortion must be covered by health insurance - see the disastrous results elsewhere when it is not (and I by no means only refer to developing countries).
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  #83  
Old 17.04.2018, 17:45
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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I highly doubt most women use abortion as a means of birth control and to insinuate as such based on one or two anecdotes is too out there. Abortion isn't a walk in the park, so no, most women certainly have zero interest in getting one on a regular basis.
I wouldn't be so sure.

Observing some of the buzz coming out of the uglier side of the abortion discussion, and especially in the USA, there would seem to be an undertone that having an abortion is some sort of rite of passage in certain sectors of the demographic.
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  #84  
Old 17.04.2018, 17:57
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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How about preventive health care, education, family planning care? Wouldn't that pay off with time? And be 10 times more efficient than demonising women who choose to have an abortion?
Probably, it would.

But we're talking about Switzerland here, not some third world country ruled by religious nutjobs.

Isn't sex education pretty good here anyway?

And contraceptives cheap?

So what's not working?
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  #85  
Old 17.04.2018, 18:51
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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So what's not working?
Are you talking to me? lol I have no idea, but I'm sure I indirectly pay for a lot of crap or let's just say for things I wouldn't agree to indirectly pay in a million years.
This discussion is a lot of noise for nothing imho. But probably yeah, it should be payed from own pocket unless it's a therapeutic abortion. Same as fertility treatments. Oh, and since we're there I would reduce children allowances too. Free meals in schools? Nope, each to their own. They can eat an apple. (I am joking....in case some angry replies will pop up, those are probably best spent public money)

Last edited by greenmount; 17.04.2018 at 19:19.
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  #86  
Old 17.04.2018, 19:42
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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So what's not working?
This thing called personal responsibility for one's own actions...
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  #87  
Old 17.04.2018, 19:58
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Same would be true when you get diagnosed with cancer, by the way.
Contracting cancer is the same as not being able to have kids?
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  #88  
Old 17.04.2018, 20:11
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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So what's not working?
Compassion.
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  #89  
Old 17.04.2018, 22:03
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Contracting cancer is the same as not being able to have kids?
In your argument of being avoidable then there are similarities.
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Old 17.04.2018, 22:38
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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...Let me make this very clear: this is NOT the case for the majority of the world. But it is in the Western world, for the most part anyway. Access to contraceptives, any really, is easy and quick and fairly cheap...
"For the most part" - that's the important bit. Growing up the family doctor was Catholic. He would not prescribe birth control under any circumstances. If you wanted birth control, you drove 25 minutes to the next biggest town and found a doctor there. This same mentality is still quite present in much of the southern USA and in small towns across the country.

In terms of abortions, some states have only one open clinic. So it's not always as easy as it seems.
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  #91  
Old 17.04.2018, 22:50
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Probably, it would.

But we're talking about Switzerland here, not some third world country ruled by religious nutjobs.

Isn't sex education pretty good here anyway?

And contraceptives cheap?

So what's not working?
It is working, and the statistics prove it. However, assuming abortions can be 100% prevented is ignoring reality and the human factor. Women of all ages can find themselves in a position of whether to abort a fetus due to:

- forgetting to take birth control with regularity
- change in relationship
- change in career
- change in finances
- assumptions they are no longer fertile
- physical and mental issues
- and many other reasons

Thank goodness Switzerland's insurance covers the operation and attempts to keep abortion out of politics.

The statistics: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home...abbrueche.html

Edit: Sorry for repeating myself but I honestly don't understand how any man or woman expect abortions to become outdated just because of today's birth control methods. Women are only human, for God's sake, and are prone to the effects of life. The good news is that Switzerland's abortion rates are very low much thanks to the availability of birth control and the acceptance of using it at any age. The Swiss rarely talk about abortion as they find it's an extremely personal matter. It has less to do with being judgemental and more to do with being discreet due to the nature of the matter. Rarely does someone question the policy of having abortions covered by health insurance. I think they are very much aware that bringing an unwanted child into the world can be more devastating than an abortion and therefore, women should have a choice.
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Last edited by olygirl; 17.04.2018 at 23:04.
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  #92  
Old 18.04.2018, 07:52
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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In your argument of being avoidable then there are similarities.
Go on. I really want to hear this.
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  #93  
Old 18.04.2018, 08:09
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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In the UK abortions are available via the NHS so tax funded.



In Swtzerland basic health insurance covers the cost of legal abortion so you could argue that Christians pay into the health insurance pot that pays for the abortion.

This discussion was about "a ruling that stops Christians from practising their faith as they see fit".

Awww, marton. You did it again. So all this discussion was about what happens in the UK? We don't care.

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In your argument of being avoidable then there are similarities.
Oh yeah, then....say prostate or brain cancer - is it avoidable? Or leukemia?
I am not sure what did you try to tell us with this thread. The Swiss legislators decided it should be covered by basic health insurance. Switzerland is a secular state as far as I know. Freedom of choice is of a paramount importance for the Swiss society at this point in time. I don't care how or what was before that, or how things are in Ireland.


Any more....goofing around on a delicate subject?

Later edit> if that was yet another dumb split thread, I apologise for assuming you started all this bs.

Last edited by greenmount; 18.04.2018 at 11:08.
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Old 18.04.2018, 09:28
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

As someone who used condoms 95% of the time up to age 42, I can make the following observations.

1 in 800 condoms will split whilst being used, a further 1 in 800 condoms will tear before use. I did have 1 pack where they were all faulty it's excluded from the statistic.

After 42 I was not a regular user of condoms, however, they were less reliable when used, 1 girlfriend in her 50's managed to rip them with muscle contortions on a regular basis, so using a condom cannot be regarded as totally safe.
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Old 18.04.2018, 09:51
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Absolutely. Why should taxes pay for couples to have IVF? Especially when it's so expensive, has about a 30% success rate and there are plenty of kids in the world in need of loving homes. Whilst I sympathise with couples who can't conceive, it's really their problem and no one else's. If you want to have kids and go for IVF, then by all means do so, however you should stump up the cash and you should take the risk that it doesn't work.
Fair enough! But you're still wrong about pregnancy being easily avoidable though. It's not for everyone
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  #96  
Old 18.04.2018, 09:54
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

Are *men* saying pregnancies are easily avoidable on this thread?

Speaking from experience are they...?
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  #97  
Old 18.04.2018, 09:57
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Oh yeah, then....say prostate cancer - is it avoidable?
A recent study found that it can indeed be avoided with a very high probability.

All it takes is daily unprotected sexual intercourse for 40 years.
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Old 18.04.2018, 10:20
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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In your argument of being avoidable then there are similarities.
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Go on. I really want to hear this.
My point was that some cancers like some pregnancies are avoidable. Many cancers are not avoidable like many pregnancies are not avoidable due to rape, faulty condoms, poorly stored medicines and "of course I will be careful"
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Old 18.04.2018, 10:58
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Re: Abortion covered by health insurance?

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Fair enough! But you're still wrong about pregnancy being easily avoidable though.
Condoms 98% effective. The Pill 99.8% effective. Long-active reversible contraceptive 99% effective. What part of these statistics is not "easily avoidable"?

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Are *men* saying pregnancies are easily avoidable on this thread?

Speaking from experience are they...?
I've not been in to space, but I'm certain the world isn't flat.

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My point was that some cancers like some pregnancies are avoidable. Many cancers are not avoidable like many pregnancies are not avoidable due to rape, faulty condoms, poorly stored medicines and "of course I will be careful"
1 in 3 people will develop cancer. If contraception is used correctly only 2 in 100 will have an unwanted pregnancy. There is no similarity.
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Old 18.04.2018, 11:04
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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A recent study found that it can indeed be avoided with a very high probability.

All it takes is daily unprotected sexual intercourse for 40 years.
Oh, bad luck for the guy who doesn't get laid daily then.
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