Holy Apollonia! I've heard quite a few similar crazy statements too, but this science-fiction thing really takes the biscuit. I own a dentistry textbook from around 1850 (can't look it up now because it's in a container that just left Rotterdam on the way to Detroit), where apectomies are described. And they have been successfully practiced ever since.

I've been doing implants since the late 1970s, and, like many seasoned implantologists, I've come to the conclusion that, very often, the best implant is your own tooth.

Hehe, you are heading to my former stomping grounds; lived in the Troy, MI area for 15 years.

There are some really 'special' practitioners out there. In Europe it takes a lot for a dentist to lose his license. The guy at the Zug Bahnhof, for example, went on for over 7 years, until the canton finally forced him out (he sold the practice to someone else); apparently the bad dentistry wasn't enough, but thankfully he was found to boil his instruments, rather than sterilize them and that was sufficient.

There is a practice in Friedrichshafen from where we have had 5 patients already. Piss-poor dentistry. We know the dentists from their other locations - it is their 3rd practice around the lake. Apparently when the reputation catches up to you, just move the location!

The biscuit for me is another 'specialist'. We know him from several cases, some as silly as selling a one-surface filling as a complex surgical operation and charging 1200 CHF, but some a lot crazier. Like the case of an 80+ year-old patient, where 5 consecutive teeth had to be removed. He decides on the brilliant idea of pulling one tooth at a time, has the woman come to his office daily for "observations", charging 56 CHF per visit times the about 9 days (average) it takes for the wound to heal (repeating this for every tooth), then replacing each tooth with the mini-implants (2 mm), when there is plenty of bone mass to go with at least 2 other, much better options. Except he ends up screwing on the 4th implant, jamming it into the 5th tooth and making the extraction of that tooth a lot more challenging, at which point his schedule becomes jammed for the next several months. He had charged the patient the same price for the material of the mini-implants as if he was putting the most expensive Astra implants on the market (when the mini-implants are a quarter of the price). This just isn't dentistry.

My wife will concur with your sentiment that that the best implant is your own tooth. She rages on how the charge system in Germany and Switzerland has led to the disappearance of intentional replantation, as it is a complex procedure, requires skill, takes as much time as placing an implant, but comes at 1/10th of the charge for an implant. So most dentists don't bother to learn how to do it and end up condemning and removing teeth that can be saved with this procedure.

Well, it's a small world. My OH (actually future OH, legally speaking, we are getting married in August) grew up on Union Lake, just around the corner, so to say, before she and her then young family moved to Leelanau County.

I have several peeves with dentists in rural Michigan (ok, off topic, but who cares after more than 120 posts?), but I don't know how that would be in other areas. My OH is having an infected molar root, started five weeks ago, just a few months after the latest x-ray. Her dentist prescribed antibiotics but couldn't do the root canal therapy, because that has to be done by an oral surgeon (a dental surgeon could do it too, but there isn't any). The appointment is on March 23, and that's NOT for the treatment, just for having a look at it. Meanwhile, she's been on five rounds of antibiotics, the tooth is driving her crazy, but there's no such thing as a dental emergency service in the whole wide area. All you can do is wait, swallow those darn pills and hope that you can get some sleep.

Something similar happened to her years before. She had to wait eight weeks of massive pain, swelling etc. for a root canal treatment, which took twenty minutes, cost $1200 and went terribly wrong. Comment by the oral surgeon: "Well, we did the root canal, didn't we? If that's not enough, we'll have to extract that bugger." The possibility to do some more draining and disinfection, common practice in developed countries, did not even come to his mind. When I made her ask him about that, he just told her that a root canal must be done in one session, and if that doesn't work, it's Game Over. Period. If I had been there I would have strangled him with his own guts.

Ok, so that tooth was extracted six days before she was meant to fly to Switzerland. Four days later, she had all the typical symptoms of a dry socket, dragging pain, foul taste and smell, you name it. She called the surgeon, told him about every symptom and reminded him of the flight in two days. He told her that there was no real problem at all, and if she were his wife, he would let her make that trip without any particular measures. He downright refused to see her, because, as he said, that would be a waste of time.

Of course she had to cancel the flight, having high fever, chills, extreme pain, the whole nine yards. The whole trip (several months in Switzerland) went down the drain for good because she travels with her service dog, which means a long bureaucratic procedure before a flight. By the time she would have gone through all that stuff again, it would have been too late.

I told her to sue the bastard. That was clear malpractice, I said. She didn't, saying that he was one of only two oral surgeons in the area, and if the other one is even worse, what would she do? Yeah, and now she's waiting for the appointment with "the other one."

Banana republic? You bet! Give me Swiss emergency service at Swiss prices any time.

__________________

"This is AMAZING! I have the exact amount of money Joe Biden has cost us playing golf in my sweatpants pocket!" — Kona Lowell

I agree, but what I meant was not replantation. I was referring to the sad fact that, these days, many dentists do not even try to safe a damaged tooth. "There's a chip off? You know what? Best thing is we extract it and replace it with an implant and a crown." Makes 4500 instead of 200.

Yes, the cost will be between CHF 5000 and CHF 11000.. depending on the dentist and treatment

Hello ,
anyone knows how much aproximatelly would cost to have stitches removed from the teeth flesh, in Basel ?
It's what's left after the teeth was removed, so now those stitches should be taken out .
Sounds like a quick and not too complicated thing to do , but I guess I should expect a fee of no less then 100CHF ?

To remove the stiches, we charge (based on the SSO price-list): CHF 55.70

Hello,

My question is not only about cost but about getting a good treatment. Looking for advise where to go for a full treatment, restoring the teeth system to a perfect condition (as good as possible).

I'm 45 and my teeth are wrecked, healthy but wrecked. Like they say I've chew my teeth. The root cause was of course poor health services when I was young. I have lost few teeth when I was still a teenager. Through the time the remaining teeth got displaced, overstrained, etc. severely damaged (and duly repaired of course). I'm worried that if I don't do anything they won't last long.

I did discussed it with two dentists/clinics already but didn't got complete answer. I believe that with current technology I can have the teeth fixed properly to last many years. I've made a check for the possibility to have implants in the missing spaces but I was refused just due to the shape of the rest of the teeth, so I don't even know if my bone is good quality and shape for the implants. Then I've visited orthodontist, which told me that the treatment would take 5+ years but in fact it is really not recommended because something bad may happened with my bones (due to my age?). So all in all I'm stuck not knowing how to proceed.

I guess treatment in Switzerland would be expensive but may be the most convenient. However I have no idea where to go for it, for such comprehensive treatment. I would at least like to hear the costs. Hope I could bear it. Anyway, if someone can recommend me a very good clinic abroad but not too far abroad so in case of emergency I could take a day off, fly in the morning returning the same day that would be great too.

I can recommend Dr Glauser at Cosmodent in Zurich. He is considered one of the best implant specialists. He is Swiss-trained.



I have a congenital problem with my teeth, which leaves me with fewer teeth than average as well as malformations and then I also lost some due to caries...



Dr Glauser was able to create a treatment plan that fitted with what I wanted (focus on 'functional' /natural rather than orthodontic) - after having other dentists tell me they would need to break my jaw to open my bite - seriously - not an option... and he was in no hurry...the treatment plan was discussed with different options and we made it work in stages where I can do one step, then wait for as long as I wish until I'm ready for the next step (this also breaks the cost across a much longer time frame and without massive financial pressure)...





In my case, it was something like:


a) give the teeth a really good clean and see what is solid.
b) check each individual tooth and make a decision about what might be needed.
c) treat any urgent problems in the existing teeth.
d) go for MRI scan to check nasal sinuses and structure of bone across the jaw and face

d) discuss all the options re: implants, what I want 'aesthetically...and any fears or concerns.
e) talk through a few options
f) go away and think about it (1 or more year!)
g) come back and decide to do the most aesthatic work first (an implant at the front lower jaw....

implant included:
removal of old tooth (had been done a couple of years previously
bone graft (this was one of the more expensive parts and may not be necessary for all, it depends how thick the jawbone is where they want to do the implant). ....then wait for healing a long time (I think 6+ months)
implant under the gum...and then again, healing time....and my dentist said this could also be left indefinitely as they put the metal part in then close the gum again and it is all sealed...

preparation of the sample of the visible part of the implant....applying a 'temporary' one to see how it looks/feels...

preparation of the final implant ....and actually, adding that was the simplest/best part...


What amazed me after having missing teeth is that I actually notice it less than the gum...when the gum was exposed, I was always having to protect it when chewing etc. It's not just about aesthetics... I get less problems/irritations and can chew much better now that the gap is filled. I was chewing mostly on one part of one side of my mouth - meaning that my 'best' teeth were doing all the work - not good for the long-term.


Grinding your teeth (Bruxism) is a fairly common problem - it sounds like you might be a grinder. My teeth as I said are quite thin and weak. I don't grind, but they are wearing down...one thing that helped a little (but don't know if all dentists would do this) is that they did smooth/flatten the front edges of the sharpest part of the front teeth - where the tooth has worn into a very sharp point, it is more likely to chip... flattening it slightly gives a 'squarer' part of the tooth which seems stronger and less likely to chip... they also smoothed all the rough parts where there was chipping and this feels much better.


Lots of detail there...it's late...and I need to now go brush my teeth.


Oh, and I discovered (unlike most) that although I have bad teeth, I like having regular dentist checkups - it makes me feel better about my teeth being strong and clean and well-looked after - rather than making me fearful, it is reassuring as the dentist will do the care and then tell me that my teeth are going to be good for another 20+ years and I can do implants and other treatments as needed. Like servicing a car...I make sure my teeth are regularly serviced...although I suspect by the time I am done (and if I can afford it) then my teeth implants etc will probably cost me the value of a car... it's worth it for quality of life...

Couldn't agree more!

Thank you for the useful post. Someone with a focus on functional aspect of the teeth is what I'm looking for. Most of the dentists are too much concerned about the artistic outcome. It's feels like they are afraid that someone would look at the result of the work and judge them - phew, amateur, that doesn't look like teeth of a Hollywood star. But also my case is not just a simple case like just putting an implant in place of a missing tooth.

Wow... very informative post, as I am finding myself in a situation where I am being recommended implants; all on 6-8, to be more precise! I know that the Doctor is not BS-ing me as far as to what I need (barely have 2 usable teeth left on the upper jaw), so my question is: how much would a procedure like this cost in CH (approximately, of course). I am being quoted close to 10k CHF in my home country, and that would include bilateral sinus lifts and bone graft if needed. Thanks for your help and replies.

__________________
Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant never taste of death but once. - Shakespeare

well I've just been charged 3k for one implant here

I went tp Zahnzentrum in Stadelhofen and I paid for a first visit, x ray-extraction and some medication 250. They explained that for the first visit, even if it costs more, they cap it at 250.....An implant is 4000 but thats another story. She was very professional and the easiest extraction I ever had as I always have issues since I dont respond well to anesthesic and also m gums are strong... We looked at x-rays and my upper part needs a lot more work. For example I have a mercurry filling.....When I asked her about the procedure she didnt give me a satisfactory answer. For that I would definetly go to a biological dentist. I also prefer sirconium versus titanium implants...My health went downhill when I did dentist work so one needs to be carefull. Go slow, use materials the body can tolerate, stay away from metals. In my expirience, its is better to pay more and do it locally as this is health. You would not go for an operation to another country...I had stuff done in Romania, US, Germany. The best was Romania as they use very good materials for low prices. In Germany I had a bad expirience near the border and in US, ended up with a mercury filling. Of course one must not generalise but its better to save some money and do it locally. speaking from someone that had 7 implants for 200CHF each in Romania. I prefer to pay 2-3000 here...

I paid 750 chf for a root channel treatment last week and it felt like a bargain.
I've been here too long.

[QUOTE=yello;3115622]Hello,

My question is not only about cost but about getting a good treatment. Looking for advise where to go for a full treatment, restoring the teeth system to a perfect condition (as good as possible).
QUOTE]



Sorry for a really late reply to your 2nd post. You had asked for the cost of removing stiches in your 1st post, so I responded with just that. We certainly do exams and prepare detailed dental treatments. I saw that there was some misconception in this tread between "functional/natural" versus "orthodontic" (presumably non-functional/natural). Often, it is not an either-or exclusionary situation between the two fields. As dentists, we always focus on the functional - after the treatment the patient has to be able to eat, talk, be pain free and have no issues in joints -- even when we do orthodontic treatments. In fact early-age orthodontic work is entirely based on improving the functional aspect of the bite, not just to give those 10-13 year-old a Hollywood smile!


I think the distinction meant is between functional and cosmetic. And yes, there are situations where the orthodontic work is not necessary 'functionally', but is primarily cosmetic (retaining similar functionality) alongside teeth whitening; but the vast majority of dental services is focused on restoring functionality.


Having specialty degrees in both Prosthodontics and Implantology we do a lot of restorations similar to your case (based on your description). We typically outline a treatment plan based on what the patient wants to achieve outlining options and constraints. If you have bruxism then it needs to be addressed first or you may be getting into more trouble slapping ceramic crowns on some teeth (or implants) and wearing faster the opposing teeth. These types of restoration treatments do take time to complete as there is a specific sequence that needs to be followed. We do not do All-on-4 (or all-on-6/8) as we do not believe in those techniques. Yes, they get to a result fast, but you are removing healthy teeth to achieve the outcome and the long-term success rate of retaining the implants is lower compared to the more traditional implant placement (where you give the implant time to heal) before placing the crown. In some cases we do immediately loading, but ... sorry, no need to get into technicalities. The point is that these restorations typically involve multiple steps that take time to put in place.

In my experience it's better to keep the money in my pocket. In your case the difference is the location. The same Romanian doctor will charge you 300CHF in Romania and 3000CHF here.

Nevertheless it seems there aren't enough people like you. I see new dental clinics in Switzerland opening and closing doors after just a few months. Peak CH dentists.

There are good dentists and not so good dentists everywhere.
Just beware not to treat your tooth with 300,- and after a few years have it damaged and need a 3000,- CHF implant. Then it is no saving.

The thing is, when you go abroad for fixing teeth they thing: "ok, so he/she is from Switzerland, so he/she has money. so let's make him/her come often here and perform as many treatments as "quick and dirty" as possible"

do include in the bill the cost of flight, days away from work and possible complications.
if you have complications, no dentist in CH is allowed to treat you

Yes this - implants often require more than one appointment so either several flights and hotel stays or long time away from work.

Once you calculate it all it may not be so cheap after all

Yes, me too.
Had a tiny cavity I personally haven't noticed and agreed to tackle it right there, consequently had a max. 20 minutes work done and a tiny filling and payed 300 chf. No root canal work needed of course.
I thought it was cheap.