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-   -   Divorce - Expertise for my three children (https://www.englishforum.ch/family-matters-health/285506-divorce-expertise-my-three-children.html)

magic 28.07.2018 16:28

Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
I got sucked into this vortex of doom because people could not understand what was going on and really regret having agreed to it.

My very jaded and cynical view is that the more people & agencies that get involved the more misery it generates, not to mention the huge financial cost too. (in our case about 15K CHF)

Legal expertise if you ever get asked to partake, do not, trust me it is a miserable process and I am not sure anyone comes out of it well, even in my situation, my ex, my children or me. In addition you get dealt some more curve balls to deal with too.

My son who has a difficult relationship with his mother and has stayed with me for over a year now; this was one of those just for the moment, it is just temporary which is now a year+ ..

What I am complaining about is the glacier pace this -crap- process progresses or not!

Adding to the misery I am on minimum vital and being made to pay my ex for my eldest son too and no account for his needs that I have had to borrow money for. I am not complaining about having him because of other reasons my son has developed well since being 100% with me.

My other two children just went back to there mothers after 4 weeks holiday with me and my eldest son, great time, no issues, had a great time, they really look up to their eldest brother.

Back to my eldest he went from 4.2 to a 5.2 overall in his studies, getting an apprenticeship competing against 52 others to get one of the only 12 places available in Geneva. Okay, I know some of you look down on people doing an apprenticeship, I did one in aerospace engineering in the military myself and thought it was excellent. At the moment it really suits him and is super happy with that choice.

Shout out to his year teacher who was absolutely outstanding and worked with me to keep the wolves away and did an amazing job.

The last trimester my son really got his head down, studied hard and did the graft.

Now they are threatening to take my son from me and put him in a foyer because he identifies with my obsession not to abandon him and demands the law be followed and his human rights be respected too much. So here we have a young bright boy who is law abiding, studies hard, doesn't smoke, drink, fight or any other bullshit.

Reason given, my beliefs might hamper his personality growth to form his own. (this was in the 1 hour debrief from the expert but ran out of time about my other two children)

Also no visitation for my other -two- no reason given so far, just read the 70 page report. right okay so ... can I have the report please .. ask the court ... so ask the court ... sorry we have too many people on holiday ... but I need to respond to the report in 28 days or? ... sorry can't help that, it is nothing to do with us, we just copy post etc.

To say I was upset last week is an understatement; so I went to talk to my shrink and talked through latest events so far. The name of the expert rang a bell ... looks her up .. oh yes she (my shrink) forced an expertise to be re-done because she (the legal expert doing the report) fabricated a major part of the story (not saying she has done that with mine as I haven't seen the report yet)

Five years on I am here riding my son's push bike, my ex driving her new SUV having not contributed virtually anything financially to my eldest son in the last year ... right equality 50/50 ... that is just another load of equality *ç% ...

My lawyer did not believe me and thought I miss heard during the meeting with the expert, so she called the translator who was there (to translate -same-sh!t from one language to another)
Translator confirmed ... lawyer doesn't understand ... tells me .. we need that report ...heck...

Just to give something back rather than just ranting ...
I get some of my legal costs paid currently through legal aid. Apply even if you are on a salary of @250K+ as in my case, it make no difference, minimum vital is bugger all to live on and even less if it is calculated just for you.

Guest 28.07.2018 17:39

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Hang on in there.. one thing I have learned over the years is if a person is to write up a conversation and quote you in relation to a report, do not speak or utter a word until you have their agreement in writing that you get to read/annotate their write-up first before it is made official.
It really beggars belief that professionals who should know better, don't.. and unless you proof read it all through, one wrong word out of context can have a negative impact which takes months to fix/sort out.

It's a disgrace that you are not given more control in this process or being warned in advance of the time scales involved.

Stay strong! Things could very soon take a turn for the better and you will feel more positive.

doropfiz 29.07.2018 04:31

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
An apprenticeship is an excellent thing for your son to be doing! Well done to you, his teacher and the young man himself, for making it possible. Impressive that his marks went up that much.
How old is he now… how long till he's 18, so he can choose 100% himself, and no authority can dictate where he has to live?

magic 29.07.2018 09:18

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 2973464)
An apprenticeship is an excellent thing for your son to be doing! Well done to you, his teacher and the young man himself, for making it possible. Impressive that his marks went up that much.
How old is he now… how long till he's 18, so he can choose 100% himself, and no authority can dictate where he has to live?

He is fifteen now so has just over two and half years to go.

parnell 29.07.2018 09:46

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magic (Post 2973366)

Reason given, my beliefs might hamper his personality growth to form his own. (this was in the 1 hour debrief from the expert but ran out of time about my other two children)

That seems a bit odd - can you go into a bit more detail on that one ? Which beliefs exactly did they find so objectionable ? In any case well done to you for being a great Da to your eldest.

magic 29.07.2018 11:49

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 2973481)
That seems a bit odd - can you go into a bit more detail on that one ? Which beliefs exactly did they find so objectionable ? In any case well done to you for being a great Da to your eldest.

I only had the one hour de-brief and have not been able to get hold of the report yet. However some of the key points that I wrote down at the time were as follows:

Expert: Your father was not part of my life from about five years old and apparently that had a profound effect on you and not wanting to abandon your eldest son. Your intense desire to be there and support your children but especially your eldest has shaped his personality to share your beliefs including that the law be followed and human rights respected.

Me: You want him to consider breaking the law?

Expert: No?

Me: What then?

Expert: Just that he considers alternatives!

Expert: In a "foyer" he would meet other children with different cultures and beliefs and would benefit from that. The way he is growing up at the moment is too much in your shadow .. you are almost one and the same and he needs to develop his own personality and beliefs.

Expert: There is more details in the report it is 70 pages and it explains there why your sons two siblings should not share more time with him.

I don't believe this either .. I have a real hard time understanding wtf is going on here ... there are obviously more notes than I wrote but this seemed to be the key bits around my eldest son....

As I mentioned above my three children just spent four weeks of their holiday with me, all of them really happy, no arguments, got on well together and generally had a great time.

parnell 29.07.2018 11:56

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magic (Post 2973544)
I only had the one hour de-brief and have not been able to get hold of the report yet. However some of the key points that I wrote down at the time were as follows:

Expert: Your father was not part of my life from about five years old and apparently that had a profound effect on you and not wanting to abandon your eldest son. Your intense desire to be there and support your children but especially your eldest has shaped his personality to share your beliefs including that the law be followed and human rights respected.

Me: You want him to consider breaking the law?

Expert: No?

Me: What then?

Expert: Just that he considers alternatives!

Expert: In a "foyer" he would meet other children with different cultures and beliefs and would benefit from that.
The way he is growing up at the moment is too much in your shadow .. you are almost one and the same and he needs to develop his own personality and beliefs.

Expert: There is more details in the report it is 70 pages and it explains there why your sons two siblings should not share more time with him.

I don't believe this either .. I have a real hard time understanding wtf is going on here ... there are obviously more notes than I wrote but this seemed to be the key bits around my eldest son....

As I mentioned above my three children just spent four weeks of their holiday with me, all of them really happy, no arguments, got on well together and generally had a great time.

Insane... absolutely bizarre

Guest 29.07.2018 12:04

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
I think your expert might need an expert! :eek: Do you know his/her qualification levels?

Have you considered involving an independent psychologist/expert to evaluate your son so as to balance out any biased assessments and reports?

doropfiz 29.07.2018 12:57

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swisstree (Post 2973556)
Have you considered involving an independent psychologist/expert to evaluate your son so as to balance out any biased assessments and reports?

For example, one recommended through the teacher who helped ensure that your son has his apprenticeship. She seems to believe in him… and in you.

doropfiz 29.07.2018 13:22

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Current thinking is that a child should be removed from the parent, or the parent from the child, only if that parent is actively harming the child, or grossly neglectful. This is because it is deemed to be better for children to know their parents and experience the real relationship with them, faults and all, than for the child to grow up with a fantasy/phatom image of what the parent might (or might not) be like.

This is generally taken to mean that (as long as there is no physical violence or sexual behaviour, and no regimes of terror in the home, with verbal abuse and threats, and as long as the child has proper access to food, shelter, clothing, hygiene and privacy, to schooling and some free time) even a parent who has quirks and unusual mannerisms, or who keeps an untidy or over-tidy home, or who holds uncommon views on life and society, etc., is probably better for (and less harmful to) the child than placing the child in an institution and cutting his/her connection to the parent.

I can't be sure, of course, but reading between the lines I wonder whether the reproach being made against you is something along the lines of your perspectives on life, that they perhaps consider too narrow or rigid, or too much focussed on justice and rights, or else that you are too close to your son, such that they feel he doesn't have emotional space to grow up to be his own person.

If the reproach does turn out to be something of that sort, then perhaps it can be countered by showing that you do, indeed, teach your son that there are other views besides your own. Some parents don't mention that, but they gain respect from their children once they do.

You might be able to shatter any reproaches of that sort by making sure you tell your son - and can demonstrate that you do so - something like this:
"These are my beliefs, and I hold them strongly. However, as you can see already, the world is full of people who see things from a wide range of other perspectives. And they have their reasons for thinking the way they do.

Because I want the best for you, naturally I'm teaching you what I think is right.

Obviously, though, as you go along you'll be collecting ideas from all sorts of others, too, from your mother, your teachers, your peers. That's a normal part of growing up. The process of developing your own personality includes merging ideas you think are good, and rejecting what you find doesn't work for you.

For now, I'm doing my best to show you the views I think will help you in life."

ZuriRollt 29.07.2018 13:41

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magic (Post 2973544)

Expert: especially your eldest has shaped his personality to share your beliefs including that the law be followed and human rights respected.

Me: You want him to consider breaking the law?

Thanks for sharing this. One question: which law would he be breaking?

magic 29.07.2018 17:26

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swisstree (Post 2973556)
I think your expert might need an expert! :eek: Do you know his/her qualification levels?

Have you considered involving an independent psychologist/expert to evaluate your son so as to balance out any biased assessments and reports?

As I wrote above my shrink got that expert taken off at least once case and had to be re-done. Also she has lost her calm a couple of times with me so did not come across as being very professional.

Yes an independent report for my son is what we are working on at the moment.

magic 29.07.2018 17:30

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 2973577)
I can't be sure, of course, but reading between the lines I wonder whether the reproach being made against you is something along the lines of your perspectives on life, that they perhaps consider too narrow or rigid, or too much focussed on justice and rights, or else that you are too close to your son, such that they feel he doesn't have emotional space to grow up to be his own person.

That is also what I think the expert was indicating as none of the other topics were mentioned.

Myself I don't believe that to be the case but my view is biased.

magic 29.07.2018 17:31

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuriRollt (Post 2973582)
Thanks for sharing this. One question: which law would he be breaking?

It was a general question; any law.

doropfiz 29.07.2018 17:37

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magic (Post 2973679)
Myself I don't believe that to be the case but my view is biased.

Everyone's views are biased. Just make sure you teach your son that… we're all trying to figure life out as best we can, with whatever we've understood or learnt, and experienced as good, and by rejecting what doesn't help.

Sometimes, we really feel we know that we know that we know, but for most aspects of life, we're just hazarding the best guess we can, given the sum of our lessons and experiences, our knowledge and analysis, plus a portion of instinct and a gut feeling.

Children who learn this from parents or teachers who are honest enough to say so, tend to appreciate the value of amassing those lessons, of hearing the wisdom of others around them and of acquiring real life knowledge, and they grow up to be amongst those who can think for themselves when ready-made answers are not available.

magic 15.04.2019 14:58

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
So we attended court last week but some of the decisions could not be made because of late filing of documents on both sides. I did ask my lawyer for a preparation meeting much earlier but they are so busy you normally only get one a few days before and then work yourself into a frenzy to provide all the information they require ☹

As usual I got to speak very little with my -ex- mainly complaining for the first twenty five minutes. Found out she lost her part time nursing job and is currently unemployed. The judge seemed more balanced this time towards me. We did manage to agree the alimony for the children and agreed on the amount the other side was asking for the other two children after I clarified what this extra 100 CHF was each that the lawyers were arguing about.

The judge threatened to take all three children off us if my -ex- did not stop her complaining as she carried on … The judge ordered another curatelle … oh dear lord to manage the visitation and make sure it was complied with. Never been an issue on my side but over the last few months she has been seeing my son but now protests it should be supervised. In addition she complains that our daughter is following his footsteps and defying her. (not having clean clothes and not getting enough food has reared it’s ugly head again ..)

I have finally been awarded the custody of my eldest son after almost two years of him living exclusively with me.

The other side wanted me to have the children for four days over Easter despite not replying to my emails for the last 6 months, except to say the judge will decide. The judge asked the other side if they were still happy for me to have my other two children for four weeks over summer, which they agreed.

The judge commented that she is looking to hearing the “experts” because she does not understand how I am restricted to 10 hours every fortnight but it is okay for four weeks in the summer?

My lawyer told me afterwards over a coffee that the judge has really changed her attitude towards me; having submitted our “writings” against the expertise, it is obvious to the judge it is flawed and in addition with my -ex- trying to manipulate the judge and the use of the children in court.

The defense for the expertise cost 10K in lawyers fees plus about another 5K in experts plus admin … So far this is over 30K to distill what is complete hog wash ☹

I am going to demand that the previous experts pay for the new one if the judge demands that!

My two other children are now doing badly at school with my youngest son going off the cliff ☹

More troubling is where my -ex- took them on holiday and visiting a border with a country that is in a war-zone … jeez …

BLP 15.04.2019 16:54

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
how long did it take in total? We were at almost 18 months just to get the RDV to start it, 2 years since it ordered in a few weeks and no where near done

magic 17.04.2019 13:01

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BLP (Post 3061427)
how long did it take in total? We were at almost 18 months just to get the RDV to start it, 2 years since it ordered in a few weeks and no where near done

Since this all started about 7 years .... good luck

doropfiz 17.04.2019 21:33

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magic (Post 3061369)
I have finally been awarded the custody of my eldest son after almost two years of him living exclusively with me.

Wow, the whole journey sounds exhausting! But this part must be a relief, for both you and your son. At least to me, reading from the outside, this arrangement seems to have the potential of rest and order, after so much turmoil.

magic 16.12.2019 11:15

Re: Divorce - Expertise for my three children
 
Thought I would update this thread in the never ending saga.

Recently had another Court Hearing (supposed to be the last to finalize the divorce) and here are the brief points:

Judge has put aside the expertise reports (labelled a complete waste of time) she will hear the children in January, no lawyers, no parents, good result! :D

Agreed the sale of the apartment would be at the end of 10 years (May 2022) in order to sell at market value but I would additionally contribute half the interest each month until then; which is then deducted from my -ex-‘s share. Agreed to deduct a small loan that my -ex- owes money on. :D

Frustrating as my -ex-‘s lawyer just fights unreasonably; the judge gave us 5 minutes to come to an agreement, it took me 60 seconds to get that, it’s not that hard. (after all both sides should benefit by getting an additional 200K each)

There is an outstanding amount claimed that I owe and the judge ordered the two lawyers to meet and come to an agreement or present each side and then she would rule.

Plus the other assets, furniture, artwork etc. but honestly she can have it all as she deems it is hers.

Now on a menu of “beans and rice” and “rice and beans” with light at the end of the tunnel.

Thought I pretty much could handle the above as we are now somewhere near close to the end of this complete farce.

However just received a demand from my lawyer for almost 9K to be paid on account in advance. :msnsad: This seems expensive for what is left plus I don’t have that money and fed up of going around begging for money…. So:

Anyone taken over to represent themselves in court; after all the judge will rule on the children (major point) the major asset is decided (major point) even if I agree the full amount the other side claim the maximum I think I would save if I pay the lawyer costs is about 10K. I am adverse to a new lawyer as they will ask for a 3 month delay to read the file; that is if I get accepted to legal aid.

In the Grand Scheme of things it just does not seem to be that difficult to settle this. (pretty much I will concede on everything except the children which the judge will rule on anyway)

Thoughts, advice anyone?


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