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Old 27.11.2018, 17:38
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Going on the IV pension

A friend, let's say, of mine has a terminal illness and in the new year will go on the IV/disability pension. We expect the amount to be very small but he has some savings. It's likely that as time goes by he'll be more and more unable to do paperwork or even look after himself.


Does anyone have any experience of this and know sort of "do's and don'ts"?


We know he'll have to start paying for accident insurance once the sickness salary insurance has run out.
Retirement pensions will now be of no use. Can he reclaim money paid into Pillar 3a? or any other pension contributions?
As I understand it a British will (testament) would be valid in Switzerland if that wish is declared.
Does an invalidity status bring any entitlements?



Are there any leaflets here like "So you have a terminal illness"?


Thanks



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Old 27.11.2018, 17:41
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Re: Going on the IV pension

Iīm sorry to hear that!

One thing he should make sure is that he appoints a "guardian"/someone who can act in his place (and whom he trusts) now already.
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Old 27.11.2018, 17:47
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Re: Going on the IV pension

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Are there any leaflets here like "So you have a terminal illness"?
Try contacting ProInfirmis. The SVA/IV is rubbish about helping people cope.
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Old 27.11.2018, 19:27
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Re: Going on the IV pension

ProInfirmis is a good advice.

Spitex also has lots of different offers. Not sure about paper-work though, best ask.

If the person is single and needs help "functioning" in daily life (mail, paying bills, book-keeping, taxes or simply not losing track of all these things mentioned), there used to be the possibility to chose a "freiwilliger Beistand". This would be agreed on at the community, what was needed to be done would be set and once a year the community would check on the situation.
I used to be one of those for a neighbour for a few years. I don't know if it still exists.
It would be something like "Begleitbeistandschaft" in this short note.

The GP could also give advice and ideas, where to get help for what.

And the congregation - in most cases the person doesn't have to be a member to get support (I know of catholic and protestant churches who gave support to people of other/no religion). In fact some of them do real professional work.

All places the person could get information from. What help to actually accept would be step two.
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Old 27.11.2018, 20:12
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Re: Going on the IV pension

Here's a church-funded (most probably free, or at least free for the first appointment) Social Advice Centre in Basel Stadt.
https://www.erk-bs.ch/dienste
https://www.erk-bs.ch/kg/baselwest/seelsorgeundberatung

The one in Zurich helps people irrespective of their membership of a church, their religion, spiritual practices or absence thereof.

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Are there any leaflets here like "So you have a terminal illness"?
You might also try the self-help groups of the specific terminal illness.

Try googling the name of the diagnosis, coupled with one of these: "Selbsthilfe", "Verein", "Beratung", "Beratungsstelle", "Hilfe" and the name of the city.

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Try contacting ProInfirmis. The SVA/IV is rubbish about helping people cope.
I absolutely agree with you about the SVA/IV... and have found, in a number of different cases, ProInfirmis only marginally better (though they do profess).

If there is a mental health issue, then pro mente sana might help.

There is also https://www.insieme-basel.ch/.
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Old 27.11.2018, 20:16
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Re: Going on the IV pension

As with all such advice centres, whether ProInfirmis, pro mente sana, the church social services, insieme, or anything else, it is always rather hit and miss, both because of regional differences, and depending on who happens to answer the phone on the day you call. Therefore, if you don't find what you need, I recommend calling again on another day, since you might then be helped by someone else.
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Old 27.11.2018, 20:55
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Re: Going on the IV pension

I am so sorry to hear.

Someone who I also know was on long term sick leave and saw a mental health professional who not only helped them cope with the gravity of such a situation, but was also able to help them by recommending all of the things you are requesting due to local in depth knowledge of such a situation. A psychologist or psychiatrist will listen more and most likely be able to better help than the other medical doctors treating them.

Best wishes
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Old 27.11.2018, 21:09
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Re: Going on the IV pension

@Swisstobe,
That's amazing! A rare gem. Was this mental health professional in Basel? I ask because I'd love to be able to pass on the details of such a professional to someone in need, in Zurich.

In my experience, I have very rarely ever met or heard a first-hand report of a mental health professional who had any in-depth knowledge the socio-legal procedures.

If anyone knows of a psychologist or psychiatrist in Zurich, who can find his/her way around the Social Security system and the legal processes around an "IV-Rente" (Disability Pension) and other supplemental benefits, I'd very much appreciate receiving the details by PM. Thank you.
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Old 27.11.2018, 21:42
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Re: Going on the IV pension

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A friend, let's say, of mine has a terminal illness and in the new year will go on the IV/disability pension.
Best wishes to the friend for a comfortable journey.

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We expect the amount to be very small but he has some savings. It's likely that as time goes by he'll be more and more unable to do paperwork or even look after himself.
MONEY AND ADMIN
If the friend is married, his wife is legally allowed to represent him in most circumstances. However it would be a good back up to have a letter formally stating that it is his wish that she act on his behalf in all matters, including the management of his assets, and formally giving her access to his bank accounts etc (if she would need that / they are not in shared names)

If not married, then a formal representative should be selected and documented.

HEALTH
The friend should complete a Patientenverfugung (living will type thing) that states his wishes for treatment and who should make decisions if he is not able to do so (e.g. unconscious, no longer able to express himself)
PM me if you need a link to an English one

ACCESS TO MEDICAL INFORMATION
If the friend wants his wife / some other person to have access to his medical information then he should give formal written permission. Doctors will often release information to the spouse, but sometimes a bit of paper moves things along nicely.
I have wording in German - PM me if you need that

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Retirement pensions will now be of no use. Can he reclaim money paid into Pillar 3a? or any other pension contributions?
I don't know about the Swiss ones. But if he has pension from a company or a private pension in the UK, he may be able to get that money released. He would need to provide confirmation from his doctor of the limited life expectancy. However it's rather a long time since I worked in UK pensions, so best to call the company or pension fund to confirm.

Sometimes life insurance policies in the UK have a clause to pay out ahead of death in certain circumstances, such as confirmed terminal illness with life expectancy of X (x varying by situation). If he has some insurance in either Switzerland or elsewhere, might be worth a look.


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As I understand it a British will (testament) would be valid in Switzerland if that wish is declared.
Correct according to a seminar I attended a couple of years ago. He should HANDWRITE on the existing document that he wishes this will to be valid in Switzerland and his estate to be distributed according to it. Then sign, no witness required.

Note....handwrite. If he types it, then it has to be notarised.

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Does an invalidity status bring any entitlements?
exempt from Billag if the IV pension has to be topped up with "supplementary IV" due to low overall income. Discounted entry to some places. Or in other words...not a lot.


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Are there any leaflets here like "So you have a terminal illness"?
haven't seen one, but I'll have a wander of the internet to look. French or German any use? or is English essential?


Other random thoughts based on Mr HH's experiences so far....
  • get a blue parking badge when walking becomes tiring. Being able to save a a minute or two walking here and there makes the difference between being somewhat independent and completely reliant on others to do things like pick up a prescription.
  • don't be afraid to use the palliative services at the hospital. Palliative care is not a one-way door....Mr HH was on the palliative ward for 6 weeks in 2016, still causing chaos now. Palliative have a wider range of medications they are allowed to prescribe to manage pain and symptoms, and they are more experienced in managing complex situations.
  • be in close contact with the GP. Having someone more easily accessible than the hospital doctor / specialist can help a lot. As an example, Mr HH's GP will do blood tests without a formal request from another doctor and without an appointment. He just has to call ahead and let them know what his oncologist / cardiologist / endocrinologist / gastroenterologist wants monitoring
  • use Spitex. They are like traditional UK district nurses. Saves a load of time and effort as they will come to you for things like dressing changes, wound checks. They also provide "personal care" - things like support with washing, dressing etc if those things get difficult. The cost is very minimal for medical and nursing support. Depending on situation, they can do things like IV antibiotics, IV fluids too.

Finally if the friend is married....here's a message for Mrs Friend>
- don't try to do everything yourself. Accept help that's offered. This is going to be a tricky road, and it has some massive mountains on it. Your job is to be "wife" not "nurse". Of course you will help, of course you will try to keep Mr Friend comfortable. But let the medical team help as much as they can. You need to stay sane(ish)....try and find other spouses in the same boat, there is a lot of consolation in knowing you are not alone in finding XYZ weird / annoying / funny / impossible


gosh, I've wittered on. PM me if something you want to ask, otherwise all the best.

Last edited by heckenhocker; 27.11.2018 at 22:01.
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Old 27.11.2018, 21:48
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Re: Going on the IV pension

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[*]use Spitex. They are like traditional UK district nurses. Saves a load of time and effort as they will come to you for things like dressing changes, wound checks. They also provide "personal care" - things like support with washing, dressing etc if those things get difficult. The cost is very minimal for medical and nursing support. Depending on situation, they can do things like IV antibiotics, IV fluids too.[/LIST]
Be aware, though, that Spitex nurses are not allowed to perform non-nursing services, such as cleaning and help around the house. Although many Spitex organisations do offer these services in addition to nursing, these are rarely ever covered by the medical insurance, and moreover, they are charged at a much higher hourly rate than if you employed a cleaner yourself.

There are so-called "private" Spitex providers, too, but thankfully, in this case "private" does not mean that the insured person must have private insurance. It only means that the private spitex is run as its own business and is not attached to the municipality. The rates are regulated, so they are the same, and you can choose your provider freely. You have to have a doctor's order ("Verordnung") for this, then the Spitex senior nurse comes by and conducts and assessment, so the doctor can sign for the agreed number of hours per week or month.

In addition to physical nurses, there are also psychiatric nurses who do home visits. This is known as "psychospitex" or, more formally "ambulante psychiatrische Pflege". This, too, is covered by the basic medical insurance. These nurses also need as doctor's order and make an assessment… and the quantity can be varied as you go along. They are the professionals who can phone around to find the services Mr Friend needs, and work out the week's plan of appointments with doctors, nurses and helpers, figure out the transport, assist (ideally, if they know how) in the gruelling administration of the IV (Disability Office), or try to find someone who does understand how the wheels turn, deal with the medical insurance, if need be liaise with relatives, help to find coping strategies, work out together with the patient what helps and does not help, etc.
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Old 28.11.2018, 08:02
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Re: Going on the IV pension

@doropfiz

Yes, based in Basel - this person saw two people that were able to help. I hope you can find the same in ZH!
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Old 28.11.2018, 08:42
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Re: Going on the IV pension

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend.

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Are there any leaflets here like "So you have a terminal illness"?
Here is one:
https://www.palliative.ch/de/angebote/dokumente/

I will second Helenhocker's excellent advice of making full use of palliative care services; palliative care is not only about end of life medical care, but also about helping navigate one's options post-diagnosis, about making plans for the time before medical incapacitation and facilitating them, about supporting the patient's decisions. The range of of services available can be a godsend not only to the patient but also to the family.

Here is a list of some of the organisations providing palliative services in Baselstadt:
https://www.palliative.ch/de/angebot...asel-stadt-bs/

And in Baselland:
https://www.palliative.ch/de/angebot...landschaft-bl/

The above can be found on the Schweizerische Gesellschaft fŁr Palliative Care website, https://www.palliative.ch/de/palliative-ch/

Wishing your friend all the best - and you, too.
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Old 28.11.2018, 12:50
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Re: Going on the IV pension

If your friend gets over 80% IV then they are entitled to take out a large chunk of their pillar 2 contributions. (Minus about 8 percent tax)
You have to make the calculations based on life expectancy and benefits you can claim during this time vs the money you can extract from your freizugigkeitkonto or pension fund.
You will lose most of this when you die.

The hard bit is getting an exact number of months or even years of "quality" life left from a doctor. Going through this at the moment and unless it is terminal cancer, they will not legally commit.
My thinking nowadays is that it is better to have the money in your control, so you can move to a land of your choice to wander into the blue yonder.
Having experienced many many months in the hospitals and clinics here, I could think of much nicer places to peg it.
Just back from my last 2 week trip and 4 operations where they nearly killed me again and chopped out my pancreas- so I am probably a bit biased.
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Old 28.11.2018, 22:53
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Re: Going on the IV pension

Thanks for the replies everyone.
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Old 30.11.2018, 15:36
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Re: Going on the IV pension

Good day all,

I have a related question and wonder if anyone can advise me as I know you are pretty knowledgeable in these matters......

I have had a couple of bouts of illness one in 2017 and one this year, total around 7 months for both. After assessment it was advised that I needed a lifestyle change so came to an arrangement with my employer to terminate by mutual consent.

Just at the point of agreement an AI submission was sent in, which was duly registered. Iíve tried to cancel it as I will be going to another corner of the world, chances of me coming back to CH nil, however Iím told I canít.

Im told that my pension is now blocked until the outcome of the AI assessment and investigation, plus decision, is complete. All I would like to do is leave and take my money with me, but Iím told no, now itís blocked, and if I do move abroad then the AI still deal with the assessment even if Iím in another part of the world and the decision but that it could take up to 2 years........

All I would like to do is move on and put CH behind me. I am not interested in whatever I might be owed/due/entitled to. Itís a waste of time for everyone concerned.

Has anyone and advice as to how I might get out of this mess, stop this AI and take my pension with me?

Many, many thanks for any nuggets of advice you can give me - good or bad.

Sim
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Old 30.11.2018, 15:51
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Re: Going on the IV pension

A new thread would have been better.
I don't really understand how not caring about what you're owed and wanting to take the pension pot fit together but I guess you mean you don't care about getting the IV pension.

They will want to assess whether you're likely to be fit enough to go to work, so if if you can demonstrate that you are, then I would guess that would be enough but I don't really know. Are you on sick leave now?
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Old 15.01.2019, 23:12
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Re: Going on the IV pension

Thanks for all the replies everyone. We're now in a situation which maybe someone has some experience of.


The sickness insurance is reaching the end of its two year period but the IV haven't yet made any decision so we don't know what will happen with that. My friend is technically still employed by a company but still signed of sick. He hasn't received any notice of termination but rather the company wants to end the contract to coincide with the end of the sickness insurance (in two weeks).


Any thoughts?
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Old 16.01.2019, 07:47
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Re: Going on the IV pension

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Thanks for all the replies everyone. We're now in a situation which maybe someone has some experience of.

The sickness insurance is reaching the end of its two year period but the IV haven't yet made any decision so we don't know what will happen with that. My friend is technically still employed by a company but still signed of sick. He hasn't received any notice of termination but rather the company wants to end the contract to coincide with the end of the sickness insurance (in two weeks).

Any thoughts?
What do you mean exactly by 'the company wants to end the contract'?

Your friend needs to stay off sick for a start and keep getting doctor's notes. If the insurance cover ends, so will payment from that insurance. The onus shifts back onto the employer as your friend still has a valid contract.
If the employer ends the contract then there will be no more money from them either apart from the last salary where they pay out everything pending/owing.
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Old 16.01.2019, 07:51
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Re: Going on the IV pension

Sorry to post again. Forgot to mention something. Even though your friend is off sick, if they receive notice of termination then they will have to inform the unemployment benefit office as well despite the fact that they will not pay anything out, if the IV decision is nowhere in sight, it is still a process that you have to go through - as you might need the decision from the unemployment benefit office to claim social aid until the IV decision comes through.
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Old 16.01.2019, 13:16
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Re: Going on the IV pension

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Thanks for all the replies everyone. We're now in a situation which maybe someone has some experience of.


The sickness insurance is reaching the end of its two year period but the IV haven't yet made any decision so we don't know what will happen with that. My friend is technically still employed by a company but still signed of sick. He hasn't received any notice of termination but rather the company wants to end the contract to coincide with the end of the sickness insurance (in two weeks).


Any thoughts?
My situation was similar but not identical: my thoughts
The company is not able to terminate until the end of sickness insurance.

I think unemployment benefit is still available for a maximum of two years after termination (not sure about this).
There is little way of speeding up the IV decision (I made numerous polite phone calls and have no idea as to their effect), but if they award a pension it will be backdated to the date of application.

At this point, anyone with a financial interest in the decision; that is the friend, the employer, the sickness fund, possibly the pension fund, will be informed and the friend has a right of appeal. If all is accepted, money will be transferred between different accounts.
Hope this is useful. PM me if you would to chat further.
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