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Old 17.12.2018, 22:56
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Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

We are really wondering how you solved the problem of childcare if you are a working mother.

Somebody has to be at home when the children comes home for lunch and after the school. If a full time nany is hired, it looks the whole salary of the mother will be gone. We don't want to believe that the system is designed to discourage the mother from working. There must be good solutions in such a civilized country. Will be very happy to hear your solutions...
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Old 17.12.2018, 22:59
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

Which age are we talking about? My 2 year old goes to the Krippe while I am at work, and I just pick him up on my way back home. Works pretty well, but he's still small.

If you are talking Kindergarten age, there are systems like an Hort where the children can spend the time until the parents pick them up. It depends on the school/area.

Best is to inform yourself of the possibilities in your city, as the facilities vary greatly.
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Old 17.12.2018, 23:49
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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Which age are we talking about? My 2 year old goes to the Krippe while I am at work, and I just pick him up on my way back home. Works pretty well, but he's still small.

If you are talking Kindergarten age, there are systems like an Hort where the children can spend the time until the parents pick them up. It depends on the school/area.

Best is to inform yourself of the possibilities in your city, as the facilities vary greatly.

Sorry forgot to mention that ours are 2 and 5 years old. We will look into the Hort system that you have mentioned. Hopefully we will be able to find something good in the Basel area.
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Old 18.12.2018, 09:24
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

Under 5, full time Krippe where I worked, after 5, full time hort pre, mid and after kg/school. Now have a combination of taggeschule (where they stay for lunch if they have afternoon school) and Hort.
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Old 18.12.2018, 10:07
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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We are really wondering how you solved the problem of childcare if you are a working mother.

Somebody has to be at home when the children comes home for lunch and after the school. If a full time nany is hired, it looks the whole salary of the mother will be gone. We don't want to believe that the system is designed to discourage the mother from working. There must be good solutions in such a civilized country. Will be very happy to hear your solutions...
The system is designed to stop mothers (or fathers) from working, the preference is one stays at home and one works. Of course that is hard financially. However my wife has just stopped working after having restarted after a long break because in the end we were working for less than nothing and there is only so much effort you can put in.
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Old 18.12.2018, 10:41
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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The system is designed to stop mothers (or fathers) from working, the preference is one stays at home and one works. Of course that is hard financially. However my wife has just stopped working after having restarted after a long break because in the end we were working for less than nothing and there is only so much effort you can put in.
On balance, though, it depends where you are. In Zurich, childcare is pretty widespread and there are a LOT of working mothers.

Care for pre-schoolers is pretty pricey but if you are on low income you qualify for subsidised places.

Care for school kids here is pretty comprehensive and, again, if you are low income you don't pay full price.

Taxes are comparatively low so obviously you can't have your cake and eat it.
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Old 18.12.2018, 11:08
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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On balance, though, it depends where you are. In Zurich, childcare is pretty widespread and there are a LOT of working mothers.

Care for pre-schoolers is pretty pricey but if you are on low income you qualify for subsidised places.

Care for school kids here is pretty comprehensive and, again, if you are low income you don't pay full price.

Taxes are comparatively low so obviously you can't have your cake and eat it.
Yes I agree with the points. Its not the "can't afford" angle I mean, its the "not worth it" piece. For us - and this stuff is all very personal because its children so not everyone will be the same - you either put them in school club (lunch, after school, morning etc) or you look after them as a parent. Given the choice, we'd go for the second, its a closer parenting.

So then it comes down to money. If you both work, then your income is combined then taxed. so I earn salary A, my wife earns salary B. Our tax is A plus B, then taxed at that marginal rate. So if my wife earns say 3.5k a month before tax but after deductions, then with full time childcare coming in around 2.5k then with tax on top, your looking at "making" a few hundred francs a month, if your lucky, for your kids to be away from their parents for almost all the day. The penalty is too high.

If your a proper career mother or father and you both earn 6k each, then of course its different. but there is a gap in the system: if your both poor, you get subsidies. if your both average to high earners, you still come out with more money each month. But if one of you earns most of the salary and the other gets a low paying job, then they dont qualify for subsidies (combined income is still good), but are working for nothing or less than nothing as deductions are still there and tax is the combined value. In this last case, its not worth it for the hit your kids take by not having parents around.

This topic is quite emotive so please note i dont mean any criticism of anyone who does full time tiem nursery or school club for their kids. each family makes there own choice, where possible.
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Old 18.12.2018, 11:17
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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This topic is quite emotive so please note i dont mean any criticism of anyone who does full time tiem nursery or school club for their kids. each family makes there own choice, where possible.
Parenting - bottom line whatever you do, you're perpetually guilt-riddled.
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Old 18.12.2018, 14:40
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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Yes I agree with the points. Its not the "can't afford" angle I mean, its the "not worth it" piece. For us - and this stuff is all very personal because its children so not everyone will be the same - you either put them in school club (lunch, after school, morning etc) or you look after them as a parent. Given the choice, we'd go for the second, its a closer parenting.

So then it comes down to money. If you both work, then your income is combined then taxed. so I earn salary A, my wife earns salary B. Our tax is A plus B, then taxed at that marginal rate. So if my wife earns say 3.5k a month before tax but after deductions, then with full time childcare coming in around 2.5k then with tax on top, your looking at "making" a few hundred francs a month, if your lucky, for your kids to be away from their parents for almost all the day. The penalty is too high.

If your a proper career mother or father and you both earn 6k each, then of course its different. but there is a gap in the system: if your both poor, you get subsidies. if your both average to high earners, you still come out with more money each month. But if one of you earns most of the salary and the other gets a low paying job, then they dont qualify for subsidies (combined income is still good), but are working for nothing or less than nothing as deductions are still there and tax is the combined value. In this last case, its not worth it for the hit your kids take by not having parents around.

This topic is quite emotive so please note i dont mean any criticism of anyone who does full time tiem nursery or school club for their kids. each family makes there own choice, where possible.
As you say, it is preferable to be able to spend time with the kids, but there is a financial factor at play.

The other thing is more long term, sure, maybe one parent stays home to look after kids for, say, x years old until they are fully in the school system and need less time. But those x years you are out of work may mean in the worst case you are locked out of the job market long term if you are unable to secure a job afterwards.
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Old 18.12.2018, 14:50
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

Whilst i fully agree witrh Mikers post and there is certainly some advantages i have seden from a child who has her mother (or father) around for about 75-80% of the time over kids who's mother (or father) were absent for at least 75-80% of the time.


Their is also the other aspect to consider however which is the mother's (or fathers') mental well being of having a job and another comittment apart from child minding.



Basiclly the safety valve of finding a bit of sanity as opposed to wall to wall child minding and mind numbing games you have to play.


So, money isn't everything and whilst it may seem defeating to earn very litle after the child minding costs have been taken care of, there are other "hidden" aspects to consider which may even be highly beneficial both to the child and the partner in the long term.
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Old 18.12.2018, 16:10
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

Just do like in the good old days: take it to work and hide it under your dress!

Tom
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Old 18.12.2018, 16:13
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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Just do like in the good old days: take it to work and hide it under your dress!

Tom



That's before the birth, not after....
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Old 18.12.2018, 16:19
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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As you say, it is preferable to be able to spend time with the kids, but there is a financial factor at play.

The other thing is more long term, sure, maybe one parent stays home to look after kids for, say, x years old until they are fully in the school system and need less time. But those x years you are out of work may mean in the worst case you are locked out of the job market long term if you are unable to secure a job afterwards.
As well as keeping her foot in the career door, the mother is also missing out on a lot of lost years' pension contributions. She might be just about breaking even for a few years while she's forking out for childcare but at least the pension pot is being attended to in the long-term.
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Old 18.12.2018, 16:22
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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That's before the birth, not after....
After as well.

Tom
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Old 18.12.2018, 19:05
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

As others have mentioned, having the low earning party (woman) staying at home because “it’s not worth it for her to work” is often a very shortsighted view.

By continuing working you ensure that you maintain your career and your salary path as well ass your pension contributions. Thus I strongly urge any woman to think hard and long before you give up your career because “it is not worth it for you to work”. It a trap for many women and I’ve seen enough real life examples of this.

What many parents do in Switzerland, both men and women, is to reduce working hours to accommodate family life with kids. This is, in my view an excellent way to manage the situation. This in combination with Krippe or Hort is what many families do.
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Old 18.12.2018, 19:33
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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As well as keeping her foot in the career door, the mother is also missing out on a lot of lost years' pension contributions.
Only for Pillar 2.

Tom
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Old 18.12.2018, 20:01
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

Don't let anyone stick their noses into your parenting..It suits some families to have a parent home, for the parent's sanity, or the kid's or the budget, while others mix it up differently. There is no golden rule, really, and we don't know OP's kids, either. There were some good points here, and having gone personally through a tough experience myself, I'd root for thinking longer in the future exactly as Tilia put it, and not only because we are in a foreign country with no extended family and zero help. Some kids really need a lot of other kids around, so why not actually ask your kid whether he or she wants to stay at home and cozy up with parents and a little sibling or go wild out of the parent's reach Integration is far easier for everyone if kids are institutionalized, both for the SAHP and the kids. Learning languages much faster, orienting themselves in new set of cultural values, getting friends to forget the pretty big rupture that moving countries represents. There is another factor, it is quite rare to have both parents quickly transition the career simmultaneously, one takes usually longer to get employed.
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Old 18.12.2018, 22:10
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

Best way is to raise your kids close to family and share childcare that way.



If your living costs rely on two salaries to get by, you need to find a way to reduce your living costs or increase your income.


The most financially resilient family structure, from what I know from a social/economic point of view, is one where the first/primary income and career is protected, and the second one is progressed so that in a difficult situation (eg. primary income earner is unemployed) then the secondary income can supplement until things get sorted out.


It's not forever, the kids do grow up and manage to come home and fix their own lunch... I promise
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Old 18.12.2018, 23:01
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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As others have mentioned, having the low earning party (woman) staying at home because “it’s not worth it for her to work” is often a very shortsighted view.

By continuing working you ensure that you maintain your career and your salary path as well ass your pension contributions. Thus I strongly urge any woman to think hard and long before you give up your career because “it is not worth it for you to work”. It a trap for many women and I’ve seen enough real life examples of this.

What many parents do in Switzerland, both men and women, is to reduce working hours to accommodate family life with kids. This is, in my view an excellent way to manage the situation. This in combination with Krippe or Hort is what many families do.
I agree on this tikis. Problem nowadays is getting a perm job. Many employers only offer contract positions which of course mean you would work six months for nothing with no actual guarantee that anything would come if it. If there were light st the end of the tunnel, it would be different.
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Old 18.12.2018, 23:33
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Re: Working mothers... How to arrange childcare?

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It's not forever, the kids do grow up and manage to come home and fix their own lunch... I promise
No, mine only comes home for dinner, after 4 1/2 years of living in the US.

But, she is a great sous-chef!

Tom
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