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Old 03.09.2019, 13:26
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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After a few weeks, when we was being bullied again, rather than run away, he punched the bully to the ground and then kicked him a few times in the head.

You should heard the other kid's mum moan to us on the phone that night about her son with his bloodied, black, bruised face.
Is that commensurate with the bullying received by your son? If it was, why didn't you call the police at the time and get a doctor's report?

Playing devil's advocate, that's basically grounds for assault, not to mention the risk of head trauma. Regardless of it being in Switzerland, the UK or anywhere else.

This thread is very dark.
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  #62  
Old 03.09.2019, 13:47
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Is that commensurate with the bullying received by your son?
Not unless the kid now runs away from school a few times...
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  #63  
Old 03.09.2019, 13:59
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Is that commensurate with the bullying received by your son? If it was, why didn't you call the police at the time and get a doctor's report?
Give over. Are you for real?

Did you not read any of my post.

Kids commit suicide over being bullied - especially with social media bullying where not a finger is laid on another child.

The bullying has stopped now. (At last with my child. There were others before him).



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Playing devil's advocate, that's basically grounds for assault, not to mention the risk of head trauma. Regardless of it being in Switzerland, the UK or anywhere else.
No, they'd see it as a playground fight - at that age.

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This thread is very dark.
Bullying is very dark...

At least I think it is. I suppose some people on this forum could have been on the giving end of it when they were younger and may think it's okay?

Who knows... I do wonder that about certain forum members...
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  #64  
Old 03.09.2019, 14:06
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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I think standing for oneself is a total different thing than hitting one's bully harder, till they crack. Some kids tend to respond disproportionately, I don't think taking justice in one's hands should be encouraged. But well, that is just me and I am not in the mood to have an argument on this one.
If that's a reference to what I wrote, then even though you don't want to argue, as you say in your post, perhaps you really ought to discuss "responding disproportionately?"

I wrote an earlier post about this over a year ago. I'll recap.

For the first year, my child wasn't bullied. He was left alone. Not friends, no play dates, no party invites. Nothing. He didn't complain.

We found out later that one of the school bullies (there are two or three of them), had threatened to beat up any child who dared speak to my son.

This was sorted out but the next phase was the physical one I mentioned earlier.


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I personally can't think of other solution than moving the child to a different school, if no teacher cares to set things right. It really starts from there, and it's up to the school ultimately.
Schooling doesn't work like that here.
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:09
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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I think standing for oneself is a total different thing than hitting one's bully harder, till they crack. Some kids tend to respond disproportionately, I don't think taking justice in one's hands should be encouraged. But well, that is just me and I am not in the mood to have an argument on this one.
I think to some degree it is natural, kids are just establishing the pecking order. And if it isn't stopped by other means, then maybe it requires some 'over-reaction' to put an end to it (such as a few kicks to the head).
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:19
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Give over. Are you for real?

Did you not read any of my post?
To be fair, you didn't say what kind of bullying your son was on the receiving end of and whether it was the same as how your son eventually retaliated.

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Kids commit suicide over being bullied - especially with social media bullying where not a finger is laid on another child.
Yes, I know. It's terrible but that wasn't my point.

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The bullying has stopped now. (At last with my child. There were others before him).
Well, good.

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No, they'd see it as a playground fight - at that age.
I was only going by what you wrote and I just pointed out that in any other situation where someone was knocked to the ground and their head was kicked to the point of, and I quote, "bloody, black and bruised" might possibly be seen as slightly more serious as "a playground fight". If it were my son, I'd have taken him to get checked out, as I am sure you, as a good parent, would have done the same with your own child.

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Bullying is very dark...
Yes, and shouldn't be condoned in any shape or form.

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At least I think it is. I suppose some people on this forum could have been on the giving end of it when they were younger and may think it's okay?

Who knows... I do wonder that about certain forum members...
Quite possibly. I should go carefully - wouldn't want to get my head kicked in...
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:19
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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I think to some degree it is natural, kids are just establishing the pecking order. And if it isn't stopped by other means, then maybe it requires some 'over-reaction' to put an end to it (such as a few kicks to the head).
Agreed.

I think others on this forum need to get a reality check.

The school authorities have let us down badly here in more than one canton.

And before someone suggests that it must be my kids that are the problem (which is what the school authorities concluded), the child that got most bullied prior to mine (before we moved to our current location), had a parent who ran a child suicide help line (similar to Childline in the U.K.).
With all her knowledge and links, she too felt she was powerless to do anything.
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:36
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Schooling doesn't work like that here.
Tom, I'm so sorry your son had to go through this, your whole family too. It's appalling.

Why aren't there school/cantonal/ national anti-bullying frameworks? Do schools not have zero tolerance regarding bullying? Do you know? This should not be happening - schools should be safe places for all children. School staff should be stepping up.


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I think to some degree it is natural, kids are just establishing the pecking order. And if it isn't stopped by other means, then maybe it requires some 'over-reaction' to put an end to it (such as a few kicks to the head).
Sadly this is true but it doesn't also follow that bullying can't be prevented, or halted in its tracks. It just has to be done on a frighteningly regular basis. It's sisyphean but doable.

I agree that social media involvement in schools is causes awful problems. It would be a lot better if sites like Instagram etc needed users to pay to join, or register a payment card or something... so that kids can't access them so freely. I know a different kind of madness that way lies but.... the lack of understanding by the "tech generation" that digital stuff is never really ever erased... is scary.
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:37
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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If it makes you feel better.

I was also a prefect, librarian, 100m champion, the Easter Bunny and a pillar box just outside Oxford.


PS, no I wasn't a bully, nor was I hinting at it. I was a boring bookworm at school.
One of the gold ones?
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:43
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Tom, I'm so sorry your son had to go through this, your whole family too. It's appalling.

Why aren't there school/cantonal/ national anti-bullying frameworks? Do schools not have zero tolerance regarding bullying? Do you know? This should not be happening - schools should be safe places for all children. School staff should be stepping up.
Seems it depends on the school. The schools we've experienced have effective systems in place. Yes, they tend to operate a little more "hands off" at first than perhaps in the UK, but if it continues it usually is reported to the teacher then the pastoral care person then up from there.

They normally involve the parents.

My son was bullied by some little shit for a while but it turns out he was just looking for some attention from my son but was quite nasty in how he went about it. My son tried to deal with it but then it escalated to the teacher and the pastoral care bloke got involved. It was resolved quite quickly.

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Gold bunny?
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  #71  
Old 03.09.2019, 14:44
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Sadly this is true but it doesn't also follow that bullying can't be prevented, or halted in its tracks. It just has to be done on a frighteningly regular basis. It's sisyphean but doable.
I moved 3 times during childhood and had a bully in each school. They all stopped after the first retaliation. I think if you're meek and do nothing, you just invite further bullying. Personally, I think you need to hit back with sufficient force to deter any future bullying.

In the end, I don't think it is a bad thing that kids solve their own problems. They need to learn to do it sooner or later.
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:48
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Tom, I'm so sorry your son had to go through this, your whole family too. It's appalling.
It's been a horrible couple of years from that point of view. School and childhood should be happy times.


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School staff should be stepping up.

.
They're not. They have this idea that children should sort it out themselves
-which is what my other son did earlier in this thread so I'm not sure why some forum members are up in arms about it - it's the the Swiss way.

As for dealing with the 'symptoms' of bullying, such as running away, rather than the bullying - I'm really not sure some people should be in the teaching profession.

At another school, with another child, school staff only stepped up when I casually mentioned that as the school were being totally impotent with dealing with the problem, I was going to go to the Police.

That worked with some parents too who weren't taking fake social media accounts in my son's name seriously.

Thanks for the support rather than criticism.
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  #73  
Old 03.09.2019, 14:54
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Agreed.

I think others on this forum need to get a reality check.

The school authorities have let us down badly here in more than one canton.

And before someone suggests that it must be my kids that are the problem (which is what the school authorities concluded), the child that got most bullied prior to mine (before we moved to our current location), had a parent who ran a child suicide help line (similar to Childline in the U.K.).
With all her knowledge and links, she too felt she was powerless to do anything.
No one said that it's your kids that must be the problem. I, for one, don't encourage responding even more aggressively because it can get to the point where the other child can be really hurt. Now, I know that bullies don't deserve much sympathy but I wouldn't want my child to feel or be guilty of doing something worse in the rash of the moment.

And it's too bad that some schools here (or rather teachers) don't take this problem seriously. I do hope that not every school is like this.
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:55
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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I moved 3 times during childhood and had a bully in each school. They all stopped after the first retaliation. I think if you're meek and do nothing, you just invite further bullying. Personally, I think you need to hit back with sufficient force to deter any future bullying.

In the end, I don't think it is a bad thing that kids solve their own problems. They need to learn to do it sooner or later.
Not always. Plenty of "meek" kids aren't bullied. Words often work just as well, if not better than, fists and feet. Thumping someone isn't solving a problem, it's creating a long term new one.
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:58
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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No one said that it's your kids that must be the problem. I, for one, don't encourage responding even more aggressively because it can get to the point where the other child can be really hurt. Now, I know that bullies don't deserve much sympathy but I wouldn't want my child to feel guilty of doing something in the rash of the moment.
I ought to add that while we don't condone my son's actions (and we told him so too), we are pleased that the bullying has stopped (for the moment).
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Old 03.09.2019, 14:59
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It's been a horrible couple of years from that point of view. School and childhood should be happy times.




They're not. They have this idea that children should sort it out themselves
-which is what my other son did earlier in this thread so I'm not sure why some forum members are up in arms about it - it's the the Swiss way.

As for dealing with the 'symptoms' of bullying, such as running away, rather than the bullying - I'm really not sure some people should be in the teaching profession.

At another school, with another child, school staff only stepped up when I casually mentioned that as the school were being totally impotent with dealing with the problem, I was going to go to the Police.

That worked with some parents too who weren't taking fake social media accounts in my son's name seriously.

Thanks for the support rather than criticism.

Christ, and folk wonder why I have concerns about the CH school system. It should literally be more than a teacher's job is worth not to do something about bullying, perceived or otherwise. All should be taken seriously and investigated and sorted. Makes me feel sick with anger that it's not. Kids are kids. They're all so different and not many have the ability to truly stand up for themselves that's why adults must. The school has a duty of care, surely to the gods...?
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Old 03.09.2019, 15:11
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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Christ, and folk wonder why I have concerns about the CH school system. It should literally be more than a teacher's job is worth not to do something about bullying, perceived or otherwise. All should be taken seriously and investigated and sorted. Makes me feel sick with anger that it's not. Kids are kids. They're all so different and not many have the ability to truly stand up for themselves that's why adults must. The school has a duty of care, surely to the gods...?
There are systems in place. This link to a brochure from the KAPO, although it's in German, might be helpful for anyone stumbling on this thread and needing assistance. There's guidelines, info and a bunch of contact numbers at the end.

Obviously there are cases which go unresolved and go really sour but they are the ones that you are more likely to hear about. My son was bullied but it was dealt with effectively and quickly so I'm not likely to start a thread about it. The story of it will only come up in a thread like this as a sort of "it's not all bad" kind of thing.

It's the same as everything else - nobody reports the success stories so the bad stories are then taken as the norm.
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  #78  
Old 03.09.2019, 15:12
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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I moved 3 times during childhood and had a bully in each school. They all stopped after the first retaliation. I think if you're meek and do nothing, you just invite further bullying. Personally, I think you need to hit back with sufficient force to deter any future bullying.

In the end, I don't think it is a bad thing that kids solve their own problems. They need to learn to do it sooner or later.
Usually the bullies have a "support" group around them, so it's not just one child it's a group. I think it is not realistic to expect a child to stand up to this group dynamic, bullying should be dealt with by the school.
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Old 03.09.2019, 15:15
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Re: School Bullying > Advice Needed

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There are systems in place. This link to a brochure from the KAPO, although it's in German, might be helpful for anyone stumbling on this thread and needing assistance. There's guidelines, info and a bunch of contact numbers at the end.

Obviously there are cases which go unresolved and go really sour but they are the ones that you are more likely to hear about. My son was bullied but it was dealt with effectively so I'm not likely to start a thread about it. The story of it will only come up in a thread like this as a sort of "it's not all bad" kind of thing.

It's the same as everything else - nobody reports the success stories so the bad stories are then taken as the norm.
Good to hear. Very very good. But the cases that don't follow these guidelines should be made public and some school board somewhere should choke on them. IMO.
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Old 03.09.2019, 15:21
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Good to hear. Very very good. But the cases that don't follow these guidelines should be made public and some school board somewhere should choke on them. IMO.
If it were me, I don't think I'd want it to go so far as going public. Even if they protect your name and/or the school or whatever, the right circle of people would know who you are.

Haul the responsible people over the coals, for sure, but I think I'd rather it be used as a springboard for discussion over how they can up their game.

I would be mortified if it turned into one of those "sad-face" family shots pointing at the school building in the local rag...
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