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  #21  
Old 25.01.2019, 14:41
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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To register a birth abroad if you are a UK citizen you have to provide the birth certificate from the country where the birth took place, you can not just register it with any old name you choose.
I didn't say there was an obligation. It is an option. Nor did I say you register any old name you want.
The hospital certificate though is enough for the UK authorities. We know a couple who went through this.
So if the Swiss do force you to register the name as they want it registered, it can be corrected later by providing the British (or any other nationality) document. Ultimately the Swiss do not have the final say on a foreigner's name, neither the forename (s) nor the surname(s).
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  #22  
Old 25.01.2019, 14:56
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I didn't say there was an obligation. It is an option. Nor did I say you register any old name you want.
The hospital certificate though is enough for the UK authorities. We know a couple who went through this.
So if the Swiss do force you to register the name as they want it registered, it can be corrected later by providing the British (or any other nationality) document. Ultimately the Swiss do not have the final say on a foreigner's name, neither the forename (s) nor the surname(s).
Yeah, we went through this and they won't do that unless we move to that country (requiring sponsorship and immigration for half the family) and doing a formal name change.

So yeah, the Gemeinde has a bit too much power here based on the whims of the person behind the counter. If both parents are non-swiss, I suggest looking up the law on https://www.ch.ch/ and bringing a printout along with acceptable name conventions from your countries of citizenship. If they won't follow the law, feel free to escalate the situation. After all, you may not live in Switzerland long-term and your child deserves a right to their heritage.
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  #23  
Old 25.01.2019, 14:58
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I didn't say there was an obligation. It is an option. Nor did I say you register any old name you want.
The hospital certificate though is enough for the UK authorities. We know a couple who went through this.
So if the Swiss do force you to register the name as they want it registered, it can be corrected later by providing the British (or any other nationality) document. Ultimately the Swiss do not have the final say on a foreigner's name, neither the forename (s) nor the surname(s).
The hospital certificate is issued by the birth registration office and the name has to be on the approved list of names.
If the chosen name is not deemed acceptable there are steps to go through in order to try to get the name accepted but the certificate won’t be issued until the process is complete.
It isn’t a common occurrence but I have known it to happen, one family was successful and the other wasn’t.
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Old 25.01.2019, 14:59
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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based on the whims of the person behind the counter. If both parents are non-swiss, I suggest looking up the law on https://www.ch.ch/ and bringing a printout along with acceptable name conventions from your countries of citizenship. If they won't follow the law, feel free to escalate the situation. After all, you may not live in Switzerland long-term and your child deserves a right to their heritage.
The fact is the name can be determined and/or changed in the home country anyway, so any attempts by the Swiss to determine the name are entirely pointless.
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Old 25.01.2019, 15:02
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Which however can then be altered by registering the birth with the home country and updating the town hall on the name.
Yes, but the name on the birth certificate cannot be altered.

Tom
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  #26  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:03
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Yes, but the name on the birth certificate cannot be altered.
I didn't say it could. The name on a passport and thereafter on the residence permit can though.

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The hospital certificate is issued by the birth registration office and the name has to be on the approved list of names.
Which again makes no sense whatsoever. How can the Swiss know if a name is suitable? Unless they speak every single language in the world, this is entirely impossible. We are talking about children who are born to foreign parents and so do not hold Swiss citizenship. So the parents may wish to call their child Xeffix Souszan Bleth-Freetown.
Are you saying that this name will be refused as it is not on the list?
Can we see this list? How long is it?
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  #27  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:05
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Which again makes no sense whatsoever. How can a hospital know if a name is suitable? Unless they speak every single language in the world, this is entirely impossible. We are talking about children who are born to foreign parents and so do not hold Swiss citizenship. So the parents may wish to call their child Xeffix Souszan Bleth-Freetown.
Are you saying that this name will be refused as it is not on the list?
Can we see this list? How long is it?
Have you registered a birth in Switzerland? I’m guessing not since you don’t seem to have a clue about the procedure.

It is not the hospital who issues the certificate or decides whether the name is acceptable or not.
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  #28  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:09
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Have you registered a birth in Switzerland? I8217;m guessing not since you don8217;t seem to have a clue about the procedure.
No. But I have worked in a town hall
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It is not the hospital who issues the certificate or decides whether the name is acceptable or not.
Fair enough post altered, bad wording.

How can the Swiss know if a name is suitable? Unless they speak every single language in the world, this is entirely impossible. We are talking about children who are born to foreign parents and so do not hold Swiss citizenship. So the parents may wish to call their child Xeffix Souszan Bleth-Freetown.
Are you saying that this name will be refused as it is not on the list?
Can we see this list? How long is it?
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  #29  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:16
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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No. But I have worked in a town hall
Fair enough post altered, bad wording.

How can the Swiss know if a name is suitable? Unless they speak every single language in the world, this is entirely impossible. We are talking about children who are born to foreign parents and so do not hold Swiss citizenship. So the parents may wish to call their child Xeffix Souszan Bleth-Freetown.
Are you saying that this name will be refused as it is not on the list?
Can we see this list? How long is it?
Switzerland has a list of acceptable names for Switzerland. If the name chosen by the parents is not on this list then they can refuse to issue a birth certificate using that name. The onus is then on the parents to prove that this is a valid and acceptable name in their country of origin or they have a valid reason for using this name. It can be a lengthy process and the child will not have a birth certificate until the process in complete.
They are not doing it to be difficult, they want to ensure that the child does not get lumbered with a name that could cause them difficulties later in life.
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  #30  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:17
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

Even though hyphenated names for children are uncommon here I have met a few so I believe it should definitely be possible, moreover Swiss law actually requires siblings to have the same surname so I don't think there is not much debate.
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  #31  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:19
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Even though hyphenated names for children are uncommon here I have met a few so I believe it should definitely be possible, moreover Swiss law actually requires siblings to have the same surname so I don't think there is not much debate.
Swiss law doesn't come into it, as we are talking about naming a child who does not have Swiss citizenship, so it will be the home country which gets the final say.
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Switzerland has a list of acceptable names for Switzerland. If the name chosen by the parents is not on this list then they can refuse to issue a birth certificate using that name. The onus is then on the parents to prove that this is a valid and acceptable name in their country of origin or they have a valid reason for using this name. It can be a lengthy process and the child will not have a birth certificate until the process in complete.
But the point is after all of that, the name can then be changed in the home country and a passport issued with the desired name. So the Swiss telling the foreign parents that the name(s) chosen for the foreign child is unacceptable is still, in essence, totally pointless.

The town hall where I worked had no such list and foreigners were not asked to provide proof from another country that the name was acceptable. Logic was applied in that foreigners can change their names and there is nothing the Swiss can do about it except update residence permits when this occurs.
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  #32  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:21
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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The hospital certificate is issued by the birth registration office and the name has to be on the approved list of names.
If the chosen name is not deemed acceptable there are steps to go through in order to try to get the name accepted but the certificate won8217;t be issued until the process is complete.
It isn8217;t a common occurrence but I have known it to happen, one family was successful and the other wasn8217;t.
In Vaud the name does not need to be on any list of approved names and it is not up to the commune to accept the name. The birth should be registered at the 'Etat civil'. Usually the commune will do that for you but if you are having a problem with the name you should go directly to the direction de l'état civil yourself.


Prénoms de l8217;enfant
Les règles régissant le nom s8217;appliquent par analogie au choix du prénom de l8217;enfant. Le prénom est annoncé à l'office de l'état civil en même temps que la naissance. L'enfant peut avoir plusieurs prénoms. En principe, les parents peuvent prénommer leur enfant librement. Cependant, le prénom ne doit pas être manifestement préjudiciable aux intérêts de l'enfant.

Maybe Neuchâtel still has a name list. But Vaud doesn't.


https://www.vd.ch/themes/population/...ance/#c2029119

And on top of that, foreign nationals can use the naming conventions of their country of citizenship.
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  #33  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:31
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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But the point is after all of that, the name can then be changed in the home country and a passport issued with the desired name. So the Swiss telling the foreign parents that the name(s) chosen for the foreign child is unacceptable is still, in essence, totally pointless.
Depending on the country involved changing the name from the one on the birth certificate is not always a straightforward thing to do.
You can’t just send a copy of the birth certificate and say ‘oh it says Fred on the birth certificate but we actually want to call him George’. It doesn’t work like that.
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  #34  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:33
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Depending on the country involved changing the name from the one on the birth certificate is not always a straightforward thing to do.
You can8217;t just send a copy of the birth certificate and say 8216;oh it says Fred on the birth certificate but we actually want to call him George8217;. It doesn8217;t work like that.
I didn't say you need to change the name on the birth certificate. And I never suggested it worked like that!
I said you can just change the name.

Last edited by Clocker; 25.01.2019 at 15:52.
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  #35  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:35
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I didn't say you need to change the name on the birth certificate.
I said you can just change the name.
I didn’t say you had to change the name on the birth certificate either.

When you register a birth abroad, a least in the UK, it is registered using the information on the original birth certificate. You can’t just tell them you want it registered under another name.
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Old 25.01.2019, 15:42
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

Interestingly, the 16th most common family name in Neuchâtel canton is hyphenated (there are apparently 332 Robert-Nicouds)... and the 51st has not only 2 hyphens, but also an apostrophe (232 Matthey-de-l'Endoits).

https://www.ne.ch/autorites/DEAS/STA...e-famille.aspx

It appears any war against the hyphenated last name will be a long one, I'm afraid.
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  #37  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:44
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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In Vaud the name does not need to be on any list of approved names and it is not up to the commune to accept the name. The birth should be registered at the 'Etat civil'. Usually the commune will do that for you but if you are having a problem with the name you should go directly to the direction de l'état civil yourself.


Prénoms de l8217;enfant
Les règles régissant le nom s8217;appliquent par analogie au choix du prénom de l8217;enfant. Le prénom est annoncé à l'office de l'état civil en même temps que la naissance. L'enfant peut avoir plusieurs prénoms. En principe, les parents peuvent prénommer leur enfant librement. Cependant, le prénom ne doit pas être manifestement préjudiciable aux intérêts de l'enfant.

Maybe Neuchâtel still has a name list. But Vaud doesn't.


https://www.vd.ch/themes/population/...ance/#c2029119

And on top of that, foreign nationals can use the naming conventions of their country of citizenship.
I am not sure if Neuchâtel actually has an approved list or not.
When I went to translate for a birth registration at the etat civil they would not issue the birth certicate there and then as it was not a name they recognised. The parents had to provide them with more information regarding the name and the office also had to check with another authority. (I can not remember exactly where that was)

Another couple had a middle name refused. They wanted it to be Jura for some bizarre reason.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 25.01.2019 at 16:49.
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  #38  
Old 25.01.2019, 15:47
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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When you register a birth abroad, a least in the UK, it is registered using the information on the original birth certificate. You can8217;t just tell them you want it registered under another name.
I did not say you can tell them you want it registered under another name.
You simply change the name afterwards. You can even change the name after a year or two!

My point is (and has been from the outset) that whatever name the Swiss impose on the foreign child born in Switzerland will not necessarily be the one the child then uses for the rest of their life. The name can always be changed. Since the child doesn't hold Swiss nationality, the passport from the home country can be issued in the name of the child at the time of requesting a passport. This could also be done later. The child could even be 5 or 10 years old. The parents then present the passport (with the correct, chosen, desired name(s)) and then the Swiss update the residence permit accordingly.
The parents therefore get to decide the name, as once you present that foreign passport with the right name(s), the Swiss will alter the name(s) on the permit and in all of their systems. They have to, as otherwise they have someone registered there who doesn't exist for the other country.

A foreign adult residing in Switzerland can go through the exact same process. Their permit will be updated with their new/chosen name(s).
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Old 25.01.2019, 15:58
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

I agree with Belgianmum. The fact that there is a possibility to change the name in another country after the child is born is rather irrelevant. No one wants to have to go through that procedure...

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I am not sure if Neuchâtel actually has an approved list or not.
When I went to translate for a birth registration at the etat civil they wouldn8217;t issue the birth certicate there and then as it was not a name they recognised. The parents had to provide them with more information regarding the name and the office also had to check with another authority. (I can not remember exactly where that was)

Another couple had a middle name refused. They wanted it to be 8216;Jura8217; for some bizarre reason.
So just to confirm, the parents were foreigners and État Civil de Neuch said they needed to do some research on the proposed name as it wasn't something they recognised? Did it eventually get approved?
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Old 25.01.2019, 16:05
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Switzerland has a list of acceptable names for Switzerland. If the name chosen by the parents is not on this list then they can refuse to issue a birth certificate using that name.

This is not entirely accurate. Rather, the local registry office can decline to register a child's name if it meets one of three criteria:


- Does not indicate gender, or indicates the wrong gender (in practise more the second half of this)


- Is not a name but commonly used as something else eg. a brand, animal etc.


- Would expose the child to ridicule (e.g. Mr. Carrera probably cannot call his kid "Porsche")


There's no fixed list that the child's name has to be on.
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