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Old 25.01.2019, 16:18
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

We just went through a similar situation. We're both dual Swiss citizens, but I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

We had to pick a single name, write a letter with reasons for requesting a name change (same as you, we have kids with hyphenated names already), and once accepted, pay 600CHF for the privilege.

Haven't gotten a new birth certificate to see if it has a double name, or a single name.
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  #42  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:22
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

Damn. That sounds like exactly what we do not want to have to do...

So the older kids already had hyphenated names like MOM'S-DAD'S or DAD'S-MOM'S (I'm assuming they were born abroad) and they made you pick either your or your wife's name for the newborn?

Was this the commune, canton, or federation that decided all of this?



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We just went through a similar situation. We're both dual Swiss citizens, but I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

We had to pick a single name, write a letter with reasons for requesting a name change (same as you, we have kids with hyphenated names already), and once accepted, pay 600CHF for the privilege.

Haven't gotten a new birth certificate to see if it has a double name, or a single name.
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  #43  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:27
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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You simply change the name afterwards. You can even change the name after a year or two!
Sometimes, but not always, in all countries, and often not easily.

Tom
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  #44  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:28
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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We just went through a similar situation. We're both dual Swiss citizens, but I'm not sure if that makes a difference.
It makes a difference, the rules are far more rigid if the child is Swiss.

Tom
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  #45  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:30
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

I believe it was Federal - all the name stuff is done through them. We spent a lot of time on the phone sorting it out. If you didn't already have a kid with a dual hyphenated name, there's no chance of changing it to that.

We just wanted the kids to have the same last names, so figured paying the 600 was ... painfully acceptable.



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Damn. That sounds like exactly what we do not want to have to do...

So the older kids already had hyphenated names like MOM'S-DAD'S or DAD'S-MOM'S (I'm assuming they were born abroad) and they made you pick either your or your wife's name for the newborn?

Was this the commune, canton, or federation that decided all of this?
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  #46  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:33
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Swiss law doesn't come into it, as we are talking about naming a child who does not have Swiss citizenship, so it will be the home country which gets the final say.

But if the child is born in Switzerland the birth certificate will be issued here!

(When our kids were born we just filled a form at the hospital, and actually if I remember right, at least in ZH you are not even allowed to leave the hospital with the baby until you have chosen a name)

Then, if you want you can take the birth certificate and register it in Australia or wherever, but I am guessing you cannot just change the name which is on your birth certificate without going through some sort of procedure.

That aside, what is the name the older child has in his Swiss documents?

If he has an hyphenated name on an official swiss document, than I don't think there should be any problem, as it implies it is possible here, and since it seems to be legal in Australia anyway,there should be no problem either way.
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  #47  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:36
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Interestingly, the 16th most common family name in Neuchâtel canton is hyphenated (there are apparently 332 Robert-Nicouds)... and the 51st has not only 2 hyphens, but also an apostrophe (232 Matthey-de-l'Endoits).

https://www.ne.ch/autorites/DEAS/STA...e-famille.aspx

It appears any war against the hyphenated last name will be a long one, I'm afraid.
Interesting that- and I'd say the difference is that those names have a very long history spanning over 100s of years. There are many Matthey families- and they have been historically differentiated by the geographical name of where their branch originates from. Thanks for that link- just found out there are 233 in NE with my maiden name - despite the fact it originates from the Jura (ex Bern, and ex Basel historically and of French Huguenot descent).

As said, go to the Etat Civil and ask. If you need a translator to help, just ask and buy me coffee and a cake

Last edited by Odile; 25.01.2019 at 16:48.
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  #48  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:45
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I did not say you can tell them you want it registered under another name.
You simply change the name afterwards. You can even change the name after a year or two!

My point is (and has been from the outset) that whatever name the Swiss impose on the foreign child born in Switzerland will not necessarily be the one the child then uses for the rest of their life. The name can always be changed. Since the child doesn't hold Swiss nationality, the passport from the home country can be issued in the name of the child at the time of requesting a passport. This could also be done later. The child could even be 5 or 10 years old. The parents then present the passport (with the correct, chosen, desired name(s)) and then the Swiss update the residence permit accordingly.
The parents therefore get to decide the name, as once you present that foreign passport with the right name(s), the Swiss will alter the name(s) on the permit and in all of their systems. They have to, as otherwise they have someone registered there who doesn't exist for the other country.

A foreign adult residing in Switzerland can go through the exact same process. Their permit will be updated with their new/chosen name(s).
You may not think that you said that but that is exactly how your posts came across to me.

Your posts implied that it was a simple process to register the child in the country of origin using a different name from the one on the birth certificate.
Changing a name can be a long and costly process so I have no idea why you think this is a simple option.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 25.01.2019 at 16:56.
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  #49  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:53
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Interesting that- and I'd say the difference is that those names have a very long history spanning over 100s of years.
No I think the problem is not with the hyphenated name, but how it comes together. In this case one of the parents is already called this and the kids just get the name of the parent. Here the problem is that the hyphen binds two names, but neither of the parents has that actual name. So if say for example the mother would have taken the double name by marrying there would be no issue but here you have a conflict cause on one hand the law requires you to have either the name of the mother or the name of the father, but also requires all siblings to have the same name, so I don't know how they would resolve this.
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  #50  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:53
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

It can also have circumstances you can't possibly imagine.

A friend who died in a tragic accident in France a few years ago, after living there for a few years- had changed her name by deedpoll in the UK after a nasty divorce. She didn't want to keep her married name, and didn't want her maiden name either- and picked a name she liked the sound of.

Her family had a dreadful experience with French police, Coroner and all the authorities and banks- as her birth, marriage and divorce papers and passport names didnt match. They could not find the certificate of name change, and moreover the deepoll change/choice is totally alien to the French system. The Deepoll paper was found just in time to release the body for cremation, and the Embassy had to confirm UK law. It was so stressful, you just can't believe.
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  #51  
Old 25.01.2019, 16:55
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I agree with Belgianmum. The fact that there is a possibility to change the name in another country after the child is born is rather irrelevant. No one wants to have to go through that procedure...


So just to confirm, the parents were foreigners and État Civil de Neuch said they needed to do some research on the proposed name as it wasn't something they recognised? Did it eventually get approved?
Exactly. Who would choose to go through the hassle and expense of changing a name later on.

It did get approved eventually.
The name was Ashton and the child was female. If I remember rightly the reason given for the refusal to issue the birth certificate initially were to do with it not being gender specific or more commonly used for boys. It was a while ago now so I have forgotten all the specifics.

If you need help with the French give me a shout, I have helped a few people with birth registrations in Neuchâtel.
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  #52  
Old 25.01.2019, 17:02
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

Thanks @Belgianmom and @Odile for the useful comments. And thanks for interpreting offers, but I am fine there - If I ever cross the Röstigraben, that may change though
I ask these types of questions on this forum as expats have often experienced similar issues and some useful info often comes out of it...sometimes
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  #53  
Old 25.01.2019, 17:07
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I am not sure if Neuchâtel actually has an approved list or not.
When I went to translate for a birth registration at the etat civil they would not issue the birth certicate there and then as it was not a name they recognised. The parents had to provide them with more information regarding the name and the office also had to check with another authority. (I can not remember exactly where that was)

Another couple had a middle name refused. They wanted it to be Jura for some bizarre reason.
It doesn't say every name is acceptable. It's just not up to the commune as was Bowlie's friend encountered. If it's not recognized as a name I don't doubt the état civil will ask for more information before accepting it. And I'm not surprised that Jura was denied as a middle name. Use of canton names is regulated.

Bowlie's friend should have gone over the heads of the commune employees

In any case, having gone through a foreign to Swiss name change, I would avoid doing that if at all possible. It's a mess, especially if you are dealing with three countries with different rules! :/

Get it sorted at the état civil!
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  #54  
Old 25.01.2019, 17:14
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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It doesn't say every name is acceptable. It's just not up to the commune as was Bowlie's friend encountered. If it's not recognized as a name I don't doubt the état civil will ask for more information before accepting it. And I'm not surprised that Jura was denied as a middle name. Use of canton names is regulated.

Bowlie's friend should have gone over the heads of the commune employees

In any case, having gone through a foreign to Swiss name change, I would avoid doing that if at all possible. It's a mess, especially if you are dealing with three countries with different rules! :/

Get it sorted at the état civil!
I have to admit I have not known of anyone who registered a birth at the commune.
All the ones I know if here either got the certificate from the hospital if they had all the paperwork in order or at the état civil office.

They tried to argue that it was an old Scottish family name and not related to the Swiss canton at all but that did not fly with the Swiss.
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  #55  
Old 25.01.2019, 17:17
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I'm not surprised that Jura was denied as a middle name. Use of canton names is regulated.
Maybe it was to be named after the appliance manufacturer, and not the canton?

And Geneva is also a girl's name.

Have you also never heard of Wallis Simpson?

Tom
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  #56  
Old 25.01.2019, 17:24
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Have you also never heard of Wallis Simpson? :
Is he Gromit's brother or Bart's? I never can remember.
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You may not think that you said that but that is exactly how your posts came across to me.
I'm sorry they came across to you that way. This was not intentional. I was merely pointing out the Swiss rule doesn't have any effect on the name the child will finally get as it can be changed in the home country. So their objections are pointless in the end.
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Changing a name can be a long and costly process so I have no idea why you think this is a simple option.
In some countries may be it is complex. In others it is a very simple procedure. Certainly was in our case. Name changed abroad. Passport issued. Permit updated.
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Exactly. Who would choose to go through the hassle and expense of changing a name later on.
Loving parents who want to exercise their right to give their child the name(s) they desire and bypass the interference from the Swiss system.
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Old 25.01.2019, 17:43
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Is he Gromit's brother or Bart's? I never can remember.
Queen Elizabeth II's aunt, actually.

Tom
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Old 28.01.2019, 14:55
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

And we have a final answer...

translated reply from NE canton:
"In response to your question, it is possible to apply your home country's laws (only if you do not also hold Swiss citizenship). If the family name "MYWIFE'S-MINE" is allowed in your home country, it will also be so in Switzerland."

This confirms what some were saying here and it sounds like it should apply to all cantons (but of course you mileage may vary).
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Old 28.01.2019, 15:15
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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And we have a final answer...

translated reply from NE canton:
"In response to your question, it is possible to apply your home country's laws (only if you do not also hold Swiss citizenship). If the family name "MYWIFE'S-MINE" is allowed in your home country, it will also be so in Switzerland."

This confirms what some were saying here and it sounds like it should apply to all cantons (but of course you mileage may vary).
But shouldn't it be "MYNAME-MyWIFE'NAME"?

Tom
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Old 28.01.2019, 15:20
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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But shouldn't it be "MYNAME-MyWIFE'NAME"
It can be anything they want if acceptable to home country. They're not Swiss.
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