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  #81  
Old 29.01.2019, 11:51
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

With the change in law (which entered into effect in 2014, see my post above) that should not be an issue anymore. Even if you are unmarried, as long as you have joint parental authority, you can select which of the surnames your child will bear.
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Old 29.01.2019, 11:51
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Exactly, because most of the officials will know that (as was said from the beginning) they don't have the final say in what a foreigner's names are.
But they obviously have the final say in what's entered into the Swiss registry.

It doesn't matter, for instance, if someone has a nobility title in their name, such will never be entered. A German name like "Peter Graf von und zu Wittgenstein" would never be entered like that in the Swiss registry.
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  #83  
Old 29.01.2019, 12:58
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Which doesn't make any sense as the birth can be registered with the home country(-ies) with a name of their choice and a passport issued with that name.
Do you have legal references relating to Switzerland for your assertions?

In Ireland you can not register a birth as you claim for instance. You can register a foreign birth - the fact that it occurred, but you can’t change the details.
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  #84  
Old 29.01.2019, 14:41
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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But they obviously have the final say in what's entered into the Swiss registry.

It doesn't matter, for instance, if someone has a nobility title in their name, such will never be entered. A German name like "Peter Graf von und zu Wittgenstein" would never be entered like that in the Swiss registry.
I wonder if that is really true.

This guy, born in Geneva, says his legal name is Emanuele Filiberto Umberto Reza Ciro René Maria di Savoia

If he's on EF maybe he can chime in.
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  #85  
Old 29.01.2019, 15:29
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I wonder if that is really true.
Have a read.

Where's the nobility title in your example? Di, de, and von are fairly common.
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Old 29.01.2019, 16:50
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Have a read.

Where's the nobility title in your example? Di, de, and von are fairly common.
Thanks for that. I'll have a read.
The 'di Savoia' I believe is the same as 'von und du Wittgenstein' in your example.
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Old 29.01.2019, 17:16
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Thanks for that. I'll have a read.
The 'di Savoia' I believe is the same as 'von und du Wittgenstein' in your example.
I'd agree to "von Wittgenstein". The "zu" indicates the title holder's residence, without the title itself it loses its meaning so that probably wouldn't fly either.
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  #88  
Old 29.01.2019, 18:28
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Thanks for that. I'll have a read.
The 'di Savoia' I believe is the same as 'von und du Wittgenstein' in your example.
There are many Von Rotz, Von Aarberg, Von Däniken, Von Grafenried. etc. Swiss way of pronunciation is like one word with stress on the later part, whereas the German way to is like two distinct words with the stress on the "Von".

In Germany the situation is any hair weird crazy. On one hand noble ranks no longer exists. A former noble rank such as "Graf" or "Baron" are now part of the family name. Means, Graf Hans von Glück became. Hans Graf von Glück. Interestingly, his wife or a female offspring would get the family name Gräfin von Glück. The ranbk part follows the gender of the person. At least in Germany.

Now I wonder, how that would be handled if Mr. Graf von Glück becomes a Swiss citizen and marries a Swiss Girl which will take his name. I assume he will remain Mr. Graf von Glück, but also his wife and also his female offspring will become Mrs. Graf von Glück's as Swiss naming law has no provisions for former noble ranks or gender specific family names.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelstitel
https://adelstitel-kauf.eu/content/7-adelstitel-ausweis
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellsc...-14265627.html
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  #89  
Old 29.01.2019, 18:30
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I wonder if that is really true.

This guy, born in Geneva, says his legal name is Emanuele Filiberto Umberto Reza Ciro René Maria di Savoia
Should've been rejected by the Swiss on the grounds that his seventh given name implies the wrong gender!
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Old 29.01.2019, 18:40
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Should've been rejected by the Swiss on the grounds that his seventh given name implies the wrong gender!
Isn't any BlaBlaBla Maria Somename a Male person? Let's check:

Erich Maria Remarque. Check.
Rainer Maria Salzgeber. Check.
Rainer Maria Rilke. Check.
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Old 29.01.2019, 18:54
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I'd agree to "von Wittgenstein". The "zu" indicates the title holder's residence, without the title itself it loses its meaning so that probably wouldn't fly either.
Well, the court case happened in 2010 and he was born in 1972. So if he were born today, he's name might have have been cut to Savoia and not "di Savoia" considering the "di Savoia' is of the family of Savoia, not the residence.

But I see that Graf is an actually title! and not just a name. Yes. Titles are not allowed. They couldn't have named him "Prince Whatever whateverelse di Savoia. it's not the von und zu bit. it's the Graf (baron?) bit that's the problem.

ENGLISH forum people!!
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  #92  
Old 30.01.2019, 00:48
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Now I wonder, how that would be handled if Mr. Graf von Glück becomes a Swiss citizen and marries a Swiss Girl which will take his name. I assume he will remain Mr. Graf von Glück, but also his wife and also his female offspring will become Mrs. Graf von Glück's as Swiss naming law has no provisions for former noble ranks or gender specific family names.
Read the linked parliamentary motion. The registry would know him as Hans von Glück, his wife Maria von Glück.
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  #93  
Old 30.01.2019, 07:03
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Isn't any BlaBlaBla Maria Somename a Male person? Let's check:

Erich Maria Remarque. Check.
Rainer Maria Salzgeber. Check.
Rainer Maria Rilke. Check.
I've got a neighbor xxx Maria yyy, and he's male.

Tom
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Old 30.01.2019, 07:12
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Not 100% accurate but whatever.
Which part of my post isn't accurate?
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Old 30.01.2019, 08:07
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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I've got a neighbor xxx Maria yyy, and he's male.

Tom
AFAIK Maria can only be used as 2nd first name for males, unlike Andrea.
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Old 30.01.2019, 10:17
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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AFAIK Maria can only be used as 2nd first name for males, unlike Andrea.
Yes, Maria is -- or was -- used as a middle (only) name for boys in devout Catholic families. I very much doubt that English-speaking parents would burden a son with that name now, though; the boy would be teased mercilessly.

Speaking of hyphenated names, it's odd that the Swiss are trying to stamp them out as surnames but are fine with the profusion of double-barrelled given names: Jean-Louis, Jean-Pierre, Hans-Heinz (or Hansheinz), etc. And even worse, the combination of a male name with a female name; one of my (Swiss) wife's given names is Marie-Claude, and I'm sure there's some poor boy out there burdened with Voltaire's real name, François-Marie.

If they're going to suppress individuals' rights to choose names, why not ban compound names entirely?
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Old 30.01.2019, 10:38
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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But they obviously have the final say in what's entered into the Swiss registry.
May be in that registry it will not be altered. However we are talking about foreigners and the name that the child will have and use long-term, also they may even leave Switzerland soon after the birth or a couple of years later.
In any case it is what is in the passport that counts, so via a name change in another country or more likely with the authorities of the home country and the issuance of a passport (in the name that the parents wanted and have named their child from the beginning), will result in the name in the Swiss permit also being altered regardless of what is apparently needed to be written in the 'Swiss registry'. The result being that the child uses the chosen name for all purposes here. The meddling is thus rendered fruitless.
Because there is a way around this meddling, I see the objections of these officials not only as pointless but a bureaucratic burden on new parents at a time in their lives when they simply don't need it.
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Old 30.01.2019, 10:40
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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If they're going to suppress individuals' rights to choose names, why not ban compound names entirely?
Because family names, unlike given names, are not "made up" but in most countries created by rules and tradition. Exceptions apply.

If this make sense and how the issue that some names will go "extinct" is handled, specially if they can only be inherited in paternal or maternal line, is open for discussion.
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Old 30.01.2019, 11:01
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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Because family names, unlike given names, are not "made up" but in most countries created by rules and tradition. Exceptions apply.

If this make sense and how the issue that some names will go "extinct" is handled, specially if they can only be inherited in paternal or maternal line, is open for discussion.
Exactly. Surnames are created by rules and tradition. So why do the Swiss want to break that tradition? Why is there a need to regulate surnames but not given names? There's no logic behind this.
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Old 30.01.2019, 11:11
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Re: Hyphenated last name for CH-born baby

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There's no logic behind this.
Unhappily this is very true of a lot of things involving bureaucratic procedures and not just here.
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