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Old 10.02.2019, 15:32
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Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

Hi,
I am in the middle of a separation/divorce. We are both non Swiss (but of different EU nationalities) and have two small children (under 7 years old). I want to move back to my home country as I think life for me and the children will be better there. My husband does not agree.
Does anyone know a lawyer with experience in international relocation. Someone who can give me advice and possibly take me through court. Ideally in aargau or Basel/Zurich but I am open to any swiss lawyer with this kind of experience.
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  #2  
Old 10.02.2019, 16:35
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

No lawyer needed (unless you want to waste a lot of money). Unless you can proof that it is so much better for the kids that it is alright for you to take them away from their father (which you can't since live in Switzerland is to be deemed very good and they have both parents here) the only other option is to come up with a plan that has the fathers approval. Like you paying the kids 6 times a year a holiday towards Switzerland for example and set videochat moments.

You not being happy here or not being able to land a job or you wanting to see your family more are all of no consideration when it comes to this.
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Old 10.02.2019, 16:58
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

Yes, listen to the guy above, he definitely knows what he is talking about.
Or wait for today_only, who will come in and tell you multiple times that you must hire someone (guy probably hires someone to tie his shoe laces)
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Old 10.02.2019, 17:11
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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Yes, listen to the guy above, he definitely knows what he is talking about.
Or wait for today_only, who will come in and tell you multiple times that you must hire someone (guy probably hires someone to tie his shoe laces)
Don't give her false hope, but tell her the truth which is very simple.

Kids live here and grew up here and go to Swiss schools (oldest at least), both parents live here, kids have rights to see both parents, dad has the right to see his kids.

Truth is that besides extreme conditions mum will just have to stay in Switzerland or give up the kids unless she can work out something with the father.

Sure she can spend money on a lawyer, and sure there will be lawyers willing to take her money, but c'mon what chance does she have...
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Old 10.02.2019, 18:43
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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Yes, listen to the guy above, he definitely knows what he is talking about.
Or wait for today_only, who will come in and tell you multiple times that you must hire someone (guy probably hires someone to tie his shoe laces)

And what does this add exactly to the thread and her dilemma ?


PS: Gave up with shoes with laces, far too difficult and to find a good man for this.....well, you know, times are getting tough for all of us
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Old 10.02.2019, 20:27
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

Is it really this harsh?

Not landing a job makes us financially dependent on my ex2be or swiss state. Surely this is not so good for the kids?

No social network, friends nor family for the kids as we are both non Swiss are not ideal either I think.

I would of course offer extended visits to the children (6-7 days per month) and skype contacts.
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Old 10.02.2019, 20:35
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

I could buy a house in home country and possibly land a proven income from here. Is neither.of this improving the quality of life for the kids?
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Old 10.02.2019, 20:41
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

if the father will not agree I can't see how you can possibly win

Sorry, you're not the only one stuck here
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Old 10.02.2019, 21:19
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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No social network, friends nor family for the kids...
.
I understand about no family here, but why would your children have no social network or friends?

How long have you and they lived here?

EDIT: From your other threads on the same topic, it seems that you've been here at least 4 years, maybe longer. That would, I'd hope, mean the children would have social contacts by now. Very sad for you all, if they don't.

As far as your legal battle goes, in addition to https://www.englishforum.ch/2984586-post4.html
I've since understood that not only does the child have the right to ongoing contact with both parents, but that each parent automatically has the duty to assert the child's rights on his/her behalf. It follows that each parent must do what is necessary to ensure that the child sees both parents.

Last edited by doropfiz; 10.02.2019 at 21:44.
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Old 10.02.2019, 22:06
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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Is it really this harsh?
I'd find it harsh if one Parent could just take the kids away to another country leaving the other parent and the kids with disturbed contact.
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Not landing a job makes us financially dependent on my ex2be or swiss state. Surely this is not so good for the kids?
It is only a problem to the kids if you make this a problem for them, also if they go to school there is nothing stopping you from finding your own job and becoming independent if it disturbs you having to accept your ex his money.
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No social network, friends nor family for the kids as we are both non Swiss are not ideal either I think.
Sorry to say, but this is your choice, nothing stops you from building a social life here, also I see no reason why your kids can't make friends (they would have to do the same in Sweden anyway...), and as for being non-Swiss, well so are millions of other people in this country.
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I would of course offer extended visits to the children (6-7 days per month) and skype contacts.
Now just give it a thought how this would work out with your husband his work, his maximum free days and his income. There are reasons why he does not like this idea of yours, try to see it from his side also. Something you have to do anyway if you ever want to work this out.
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Old 10.02.2019, 22:56
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

It is not my intention to disturb the contact with the children and their father. In fact I am offering more days for them to be together if I move, most of their school holidays would be available etc. As for free days his job has offered that he works 2 weeks per month from home.

In the end arguments pro and con doesnt matter. I am grateful for your thoughts and feelings but ultimately I am looking for legal advice.
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Old 10.02.2019, 23:08
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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It is not my intention to disturb the contact with the children and their father. In fact I am offering more days for them to be together if I move, most of their school holidays would be available etc. As for free days his job has offered that he works 2 weeks per month from home.

In the end arguments pro and con doesnt matter. I am grateful for your thoughts and feelings but ultimately I am looking for legal advice.
Legally either the dad agrees or you try to get a judge to say yes which is VERY unlikely.

The kids live here, doesn't matter if they are swiss, they will not go against their father's wishes and allow the kids to move without a good reason.

It's not always fair, but I'm telling you the way it works. You can ask, of course it's your legal right, but I wouldn't go packing or anything just yet.

Sweet talking the dad is the best bet if you want to move.
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Old 10.02.2019, 23:09
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

Maybe the kids could life with their father here in Switzerland, and you could come visit them every second weekend? Like 6 days a month (twice Fri-Sun), just as you suggested (but the other way round..)

Since apparently he (your husband) has no issues holding a job here, and the kids pretty clearly are better off - as you say - with someone holding a job and not being dependable from the state, it looks to me like the ideal solution.
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Old 10.02.2019, 23:14
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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Maybe the kids could life with their father here in Switzerland, and you could come visit them every second weekend? Like 6 days a month (twice Fri-Sun), just as you suggested (but the other way round..)

Since apparently he (your husband) has no issues holding a job here, and the kids pretty clearly are better off - as you say - with someone holding a job and not being dependable from the state, it looks to me like the ideal solution.
although this seems unheapful and snarky and not what you want to hear it's going to be arguments like this if you go to court that you won't be able to fight against.
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Old 10.02.2019, 23:23
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

Yeah. I agree to many parts of your statement but I cannot imagine not living in the same house as them. I have considered it inside out but I always conclude the same thing.

I realised my ex2be might feel the same and I offered him that we would co parent under the same roof.
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Old 10.02.2019, 23:27
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

Yeah. I guess if nothing else I have got a feeling for what kind of feelings and thoughts I may encounter if I take the matter to court.

Though some are hurtful to read I find it useful to hear them.
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Old 10.02.2019, 23:28
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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although this seems unheapful and snarky and not what you want to hear it's going to be arguments like this if you go to court that you won't be able to fight against.
Which was my intention to display..

I'm not trying to be unhelpful at all, I just like to show that she will have an extremely hard time of moving their (!) children to Sweden if he doesn't agree to that move.

Getting a lawyer into play here will make the situation MUCH harder then if you're trying to settle the situation on good terms.

The law is clear, luckily nowadays it's not women having all rights anymore in case of a divorce over the kids (even if they're still holding a slight advantage, I'd say) so you better agree to a mutually agreeable solution.

And by all means, unless the kids ABSOLUTELY want to move to Sweden (and their father is doing a really bad job on the weekends he got them), you're holding quite bad cards in your hand.

IF you want to be with your kids as the "main" parent (which apparently the default will be, if you stay here), why not get a part time job? Together with some alimonies, that will easily be enough to make a living in my books. For you and your children.

Under the current economic situation, I can't see how landing a job - albeit maybe not a "perfect match" - would be too hard.

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I realised my ex2be might feel the same and I offered him that we would co parent under the same roof.
I agree this would probably be the best situation. And also probably the cheapest (cheap as in a good meaning)
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Old 11.02.2019, 08:00
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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I realised my ex2be might feel the same and I offered him that we would co parent under the same roof.

That would only work if you live in somewhere the size of Buckingham Palace !


If you divorce/separate living in the same house will just not work, be realistic at least.
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Old 11.02.2019, 11:28
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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That would only work if you live in somewhere the size of Buckingham Palace !


If you divorce/separate living in the same house will just not work, be realistic at least.
under the same roof could also be in different flats in the same building
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Old 11.02.2019, 11:35
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Re: Lawyer for Relocation abroad with children

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under the same roof could also be in different flats in the same building

It could be, but "under same roof" tends to imply just that
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