Meds are definitely not a quick fix. But many people look for quick fixes. I know of people who are meds and therapy for years. I tell my clients that my objective is that they do not need to see me for the rest of their lives. My objective is to help them to take their lives into their own hands.

It is not about laziness where as with some it is. It is about motivation. It is about belief systems. It is about la lack of information. It is about dependence.

A lot of it is about learniung to let go and trust in ourselves

You've twice (I believe) said CBT is invasive and adversely affects motivation. Please explain why you are saying this as I don't think either is true.

Many years ago, and following several years of sessions due to PTSD and a reactive clinical depression, my psychologist combined CBT into my therapy.

What can I say - it was life changing (positively), and helped to free me from my prison of past memories and the resulting emotions I still carried with me at that time.

OP, I would pass on her details, but she's retired in the meantime.

Yes, I already admitted that I made a mistake mixing up up CBT with CBD

If some people on this are experiencing trauma the following is a great book

https://www.amazon.de/Neurofeedback-...s&sr=1-1-spell

She writes about attachment disorder and developmental trauma.

While I completely agree with this for on-going well-being in a person that feels healthy (and I live it), it's senseless for someone who can't find energy for cooking, let alone walking, when truly depressive (have lived it)

I have also been there. Music chick is so correct withthe oxygenation. This is what the TACS can help with. It increasing blood into the frontal lobe and has a wake up affect. Without having to run. Once they get motivated they then can get around to running. In my time I did a lot of walking.

In my work with people I work on developing a motivational vision.

Lol, some of us barely have enough time to sleep, let alone go for walks!

Some problems simply have no solutions. I've learnt to live with my depression. It just takes its place in line behind all my other chronic illnesses. Sometimes it elbows its way to the front, but most of the time it just squats there, scowling with envy at the other demands upon my time and motivation.

The bastard. I hates it!

They always thought that. And are between 50-85 years old. But I do tend to think that Western medicine seems to medicate faster and more than what I am used to in EE, from my medical family (which probably isn't the norm, either).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/aeon.co...effects-of-cbt

Doesn't surprise me at all that Jarrett is a cogn neuroscientist. I don't think he points out the side effects of CBT, just that they exist and patients (and therapists) should know. Hence the cognition guy campaigning a little bit for information being available. Again - for those who will look for something else in his paper, he isn't trying to discourage folks from meds nor CBT nor "make them" feel lazy or bad (if anyone is prone to that, tread with caution, maybe take a few minutes offline to re-affirm your position), he is simply sharing his and other findings.

There must be better papers on a habit - long term effectiveness and cognitively processing it/sabotaging it it subconsciously. In my experience one can only trick (create a path, mechanical habit) our brain to certain extent, what it does in the large majority we have no conscious control over, is another thing.

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Are you responding now to CBT or CBD
PS. I just thanked DB, so this is serious

Jesus, reading this thread then thinking of the mother of an ex boyfriend of mine, who had (probably still has) clinical depression and the suggestion that "going for a walk or run" to get some blood into her brain is almost laughable.

Depression is not just "feeling a bit blue" it's an illness which needs as much qualified medical attention as a broken arm or heart disease.

To the OP, my recommendation is to go and see your GP and get a proper referral to someone who is qualified in mental health issues.

CBT!

What was the world thinking that Focus was dissing? (He wasn't, even). CBD? I read him as not being entirely happy with only meds/CBT and pointing out that there are other ways.

I think for some people CBT is weak, since deep down they know that reframing and talking about it and adjusting behaviorally won't do the trick for ever.

The difference between CBD and CBT is considerable .
Genuine mistake me-thinks...

Post 44

This.

Of course there is a considerable difference between CBT and CBD. I don't know anyone who'd want to be more motivated by CBD.

I am not dissing either. Nor saying people should avoid drs or meds. I think Focus is right for wanting to offer an alternative. Heck...where are the electrodes.

Are they available on wi-fi?

Ah, so he was anti CBD? Oks. Or maybe he can come back and say.

I have my reservations against CBT as a method that has a potential to help everyone. I don't think it does. Good for those who got helped by CBT, of course.

I think it does help, it's an ongoing behaviour, much like a daily run that releases endorphins etc. A different way of thinking/seeing/ understanding. That in itself is also an acquired technique.

Then we agree although you might not like it. It does help. But not to everyone. Which is entirely the reason why I like to see alternatives listed instead of shooing them away or censoring. That would be daft.

Somebody seeking help will come the dr's office more informed about the alternatives and maybe having particular questions to ask.

And if that somebody isn't suffering from heavy stuff, can ask about sports. Since despite the people here mocking running, moderate physical activity will be suggested by any good doctor, exactly for the oxygen and endicrino stuff. Plus metabolizing meds isn't a light load for the lymphatic system (more so for the long term use or rest of one's life), sports help with that, too.

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Mais oui.

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