Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18.04.2019, 00:22
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Nonalnm has become a little unpopularNonalnm has become a little unpopular
Babysitter accident with baby

I would like to share my experience with the babysitter of my 9-month daughter. One year ago, this babysitter, that I will name Fabienne, had a serious accident with my daughter that I will name Alexandra. At that time I managed to forgive her, but one year later I can't help blaming myself for hiring her. And not because of the accident. I will explain why.

Fabienne started working for us last year, she was reasonably well paid CHF 32 net per hour at her request, she took days off whenever she wanted, I was at home so it was ok, relationship was cordial.

Fabienne had a first serious accident with my daughter while having a walk with her. Basically she did not put the brake of the stroller while she was doing something else, so the stroller had gone down the sidewalk, without her noticing, fell down in the street and literally flipped over. My daughter was seriously injured, one teeth was moving, the nose full of bruises and bleeding like hell. Fabienne came with us to the doctor, she nearly fainted while listening to him explaining potential long term consequences on the child. We decided to keep her, thinking she would have learnt the lesson. We thought the probability of her having a second accident with Alexandra was lower than with a newly hired babysitter that we would not know. WRONG. I wish I had listened to my parents and fire her at that time. Sometimes, trying to be smart by taking decisions rationally does not work out.

We did not know by then, but Fabienne was actually two months pregnant when the accident happened. Now we know from a trusted legal opinion that we could have fired her immediately without serious financial repercussions, but we did not.

Four months later, Alexandra had another accident at home, while under the supervision of Fabienne. I could not handle it anymore so we decided we would talk to her and ask her resignation (because she was pregnant), expecting she would agree with a fair settlement. She refused to resign. Fabienne was aware of all her rights as a pregnant woman and even threatened of suing us. I could not tolerate her coming back at home after the discussion we had, so anyway we did not have an alternative. We fired her. During the conversation, she even complained that ‘we were overprotecting our child’. That was a killer in my ears, specially coming from someone who did not have children. I can assure you we are not that kind, but yes we define security rules for babysitters to follow, whether they agree or not. Bad strategy for her, choosing not to follow them. Anyway, the trust was lost, so no alternative for us.

In the end, Fabienne had indeed the guts to sue us. She hired a lawyer (not a good one though, but cheap I suppose). She and her lawyer had the guts to lie twice in front of a judge. One of the lies, we could prove it wrong, the other it was out of despair, and the judge obviously could not believe it. Indeed, the second accident was my daughter climbing on the sofa and falling on the floor, head first. The noise was really loud, I could hear it from another bedroom, my daughter had a bruise, ’the size of a prune’ as per the doctor report, that lasted more than a week. She cried very badly, like I had heard only once, after the first accident. Fabienne said to the judge, that what I heard was the milk bottle falling on the floor, not my daughter.

Since then, I really regret from the bottom of my heart 1) forgiving her after the first accident, 2) keeping her after the first accident, and 3) even hiring her in the first place. This was a total lack of respect for Alexandra, the real victim, and although I can accept that accidents happen, I cannot accept such a lack of respect for a child. I really hate myself for having put my daughter in her hands.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users groan at Nonalnm for this post:
  #2  
Old 18.04.2019, 08:20
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,929
Groaned at 166 Times in 144 Posts
Thanked 15,506 Times in 6,274 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

So the lesson to be learned here is: if someone is grossly negligent when caring for your offspring, do not give a second chance.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18.04.2019, 08:24
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,357
Groaned at 314 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 9,783 Times in 3,437 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Don‘t hate yourself for being kind to your babysitter!

You can‘t change history. Just be thankful your child is well and move on to future with her growing up...
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 18.04.2019, 08:25
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 7,461
Groaned at 816 Times in 554 Posts
Thanked 9,167 Times in 4,346 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

This just sounds so much like rubbish
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 18.04.2019, 09:12
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,473
Groaned at 124 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 24,393 Times in 9,431 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post
So the lesson to be learned here is: if someone is grossly negligent when caring for your offspring, do not give a second chance.
It raises an interesting question, though. If someone is put in charge of young kids and babies, found to be grossly negligent, and subsequently found to be pregnant, does that mean there's no way out for the employer? Basically you have to keep a crap (dangerous?) employee on till after her maternity leave is over?

I'm all for protecting women's rights but that seems to go a bit far.

I guess the same goes for all similar situations; a pregnant woman loses a bank thousands because she was reckless or negligent but can't be fired. I guess then there's an alternative to put her in charge of paperclips and loo rolls instead of currency and ETFs but as a nanny, the options are limited.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18.04.2019, 10:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,458
Groaned at 248 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 8,969 Times in 4,700 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
Four months later, Alexandra had another accident at home, while under the supervision of Fabienne. I could not handle it anymore so we decided we would talk to her and ask her resignation (because she was pregnant), expecting she would agree with a fair settlement. She refused to resign. Fabienne was aware of all her rights as a pregnant woman and even threatened of suing us.
I don't think the protection from termination during pregnancy also protects from justified termination with immediate effect. If the 2nd accident provides sufficient reason for that, you probably could have let her go with immediate effect then. But such a termination must occur quickly, like within a few days (subject to circumstances).
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18.04.2019, 10:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

So the lesson here is if you're home then look after your own kids and don't pay someone on minimum wage and expect them to do a good job.

Why would you even need a babysitter if you're home full time?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 18.04.2019, 11:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 7,969
Groaned at 258 Times in 209 Posts
Thanked 10,112 Times in 5,416 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post
So the lesson here is if you're home then look after your own kids and don't pay someone on minimum wage and expect them to do a good job.

Why would you even need a babysitter if you're home full time?
Because everybody and their dog needs a nanny, a babysitter, a cleaner and a gardener these days!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 18.04.2019, 11:03
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,473
Groaned at 124 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 24,393 Times in 9,431 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post

Why would you even need a babysitter if you're home full time?
If you work from home maybe?

She said she was "home" not "unemployed".
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 18.04.2019, 11:15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 458
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 382 Times in 208 Posts
mgosia has an excellent reputationmgosia has an excellent reputationmgosia has an excellent reputationmgosia has an excellent reputation
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post
So the lesson here is if you're home then look after your own kids and don't pay someone on minimum wage and expect them to do a good job.

Why would you even need a babysitter if you're home full time?
That is none of your business and in fact, 32 CHF/hr is not minimum wage but in the top 20% of babysitter/nanny wages
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank mgosia for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 18.04.2019, 11:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post
That is none of your business and in fact, 32 CHF/hr is not minimum wage but in the top 20% of babysitter/nanny wages
I pay my cleaner more than that. If you pay a babysitter 32 bucks an hour, don't be surprised if they drop the baby on its head.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #12  
Old 18.04.2019, 11:22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 458
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 382 Times in 208 Posts
mgosia has an excellent reputationmgosia has an excellent reputationmgosia has an excellent reputationmgosia has an excellent reputation
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

OMG IMPRESSIVE that means you are more generous than 95% of the Swiss population.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18.04.2019, 11:24
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post
OMG IMPRESSIVE that means you are more generous than 95% of the Swiss population.
I know, and I still wouldn't leave her to look after my kids.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 18.04.2019, 11:41
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,473
Groaned at 124 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 24,393 Times in 9,431 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post
I pay my cleaner more than that. If you pay a babysitter 32 bucks an hour, don't be surprised if they drop the baby on its head.
If you are home (working or whatever) and need some help, it makes more sense to hire a babysitter. Why would you want to go for a full-blown nanny if you are mainly there, too?

I could understand it if you are out of the house for 8 hours a day working but basically for someone to give you a hand and take on the brunt of childcare so you don't have to juggle nappy changes and conference calls it doesn't need Nanny McPhee, does it?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 18.04.2019, 12:50
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 5,797
Groaned at 33 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 5,441 Times in 2,595 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Accidents can happen (and often do) when parents are in charge, not just babysitters...



At worst, you would have to pay her for the rest of her sick leave during pregnancy, then the insurance covers her maternity leave, plus 3 months notice after the birth.


The difference is that you decided to try to fire her due to negligence, and if this is not supported by the court, the court will decide the cost payable to her for both loss of income, any slur on her reputation, and her legal costs as well as yours...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18.04.2019, 13:27
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 245
Groaned at 27 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 280 Times in 170 Posts
terrifisch is considered knowledgeableterrifisch is considered knowledgeableterrifisch is considered knowledgeable
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

We lived in Singapore for over 10 years, and most of the expat community (and many locals) had a live- in "helper" as the cost for a live-in was relatively inexpensive. Our kids were older and we never went that route.

Cannot tell you how many times I saw some disturbing situations where the "helper" was texting on her phone while supposedly "watching" the children under her care. And don't get me started about the supervision of dogs. Too often I would see a group of helpers chatting and laughing on a random corner with dogs sitting next to them getting no exercise (and the unsuspecting employers assuming that Fido gets plenty of exercise given the number of walks the helper gladly takes him on!)

What I found really amusing was how many expats/friends who had helpers told me how "amazing, intelligent and special" their helper was and how fortunate they were. Whatever works for you I would think, but why the sales pitch to me?

It has been a rude awakening for many once they leave expat life and return to their home country. Some have really struggled as they never had to shop, cook - let alone clean during there many years as an expat. And, I wonder if it has helped their kids who always had a helper picking up after them. But to each their own.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18.04.2019, 16:22
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 7,461
Groaned at 816 Times in 554 Posts
Thanked 9,167 Times in 4,346 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post
I pay my cleaner more than that. If you pay a babysitter 32 bucks an hour, don't be surprised if they drop the baby on its head.

At least you don't get banned for doing that
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 18.04.2019, 17:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,458
Groaned at 248 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 8,969 Times in 4,700 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

Quote:
View Post
At least you don't get banned for doing that
That claim may turn out to be premature.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 25.07.2019, 01:39
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Nonalnm has become a little unpopularNonalnm has become a little unpopular
Quote:
View Post
So the lesson to be learned here is: if someone is grossly negligent when caring for your offspring, do not give a second chance.
Correct, because you give the impression it was not serious in your eyes.

Quote:
View Post
I don't think the protection from termination during pregnancy also protects from justified termination with immediate effect. If the 2nd accident provides sufficient reason for that, you probably could have let her go with immediate effect then. But such a termination must occur quickly, like within a few days (subject to circumstances).
You are right, it does not protect from justified termination, and in our case the first accident was reason enough to fire her, as advised by the court mediator during the mediation. We did not have to go to court as she accepted the settlement (which btw must have gone to pay her lawyer).

Last edited by 3Wishes; 25.07.2019 at 13:05. Reason: merging consecutive replies
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25.07.2019, 09:31
Crazy cat's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 19
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Crazy cat has made some interesting contributions
Re: Babysitter accident with baby

My blood boils in my veins when I read your post.
So sorry for your little daughter and yourself to go through this!

You are a kind person, I would probably not fire a nanny right away too. But my experience with kids shows that we need to rely on our gut feel more. If there is anything wrong you feel-just follow your wisdom.

For now, good to get rid of babysitter- is there a sort of black list of babysitters/nannies in Switzerland or is this forbidden?

I hope she learned the lesson.

Sending you hugs!
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Crazy cat for this post:
Reply

Tags
accident, baby, babysitter, pregnant




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baby items for sale (Zurich): Changing table with baby bath Larazh Items for sale 1 27.09.2017 17:25
[ZH] Baby bed with mattress and baby bath Mariia Items for sale 0 25.07.2017 21:15
Baby Massage Classes & Yoga with Baby isascott Commercial events 0 06.09.2011 16:09
Travelling with baby to Germany, without baby's passport BHBT Permits/visas/government 6 07.07.2010 19:39
How did you react to your baby's First accident? SemAms General off-topic 34 15.02.2010 20:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0