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  #41  
Old 08.07.2019, 14:11
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Re: Happy - are you?

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So you're 'well-read' and 'trust' medical science then. And you like to pin the 'bi-polar' aspect on people who think you're really an opinionated type of poster?
Well it seems I have to repeat myself, but I labelled your posts bi-polar as often you preach calm and tell people to stop being 'bullying' or 'intimidating', yet then when you are challenged you seem unable to articulate yourself properly and quickly fly off the handle in a petty rage and start to get aggressive and insulting towards people. You have been this way on the forum for years and if I remember correctly have even been banned once or twice as a result.

Just think about it... you have stated multiple times in this thread that depression is not a mental condition and yet provided zero rationale or evidence to back up your claim. Your behaviour is extremely erratic.
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  #42  
Old 08.07.2019, 14:29
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Oh for example the dozens of cases in my company who weren't happy with a performance rating or whatever and then called in sick with "burnout" the next day, and didn't show up again for months on end, if ever (of course at full pay as our company is very generous). That kind of case.
Oh, how annoying. I wonder about the doctors who would support that kind of behaviour, if it were only laziness, or a sulk, or wilful extortion. Dozens of them? That's awful. It's been decades since I met a dishonest doctor of that ilk, and his patients soon left him because of his poor ethics, and he was subsequently struck off the medical roll.

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Yes depression can hit out of nowhere, I've seen it, I've even seen it lead to one case of a shockingly sudden suicide, but all those cases? Nope, not real. And a slap in the face for everyone who actually suffers from mental illness.
Yes, out of nowhere, sometimes, or building up and building up but gone unnoticed or suppressed.

I know a very honest person, diligent, determined, loyal, successful at work, who rose into lower then middle management, and turned her department around to positive figures. She was well-liked, well-groomed and good-looking.

In the course of a reorganisation, she was "loaned" a junior team member from another department. This person criticised not only her decisions but her person, made slightly snide remarks about her, left ambivalent notes, and played small practical jokes on her and when she didn't find them funny, mocked her as having no sense of humour. Despite her having confronted him and asked him to desist, nothing seemed to stop him, and he was subtle enough that nothing he did ever amounted to enough for any kind of disciplinary action. So she suffered inwardly, but continued to perform well at work.

Then the annual performance rating meetings were held, and he was rated by his manager, her colleague from the neighbouring department. Top marks, excellent review, motivation for a salary increase. The next day, try as she might, she was physically unable to get out of bed. Everything that had been brewing - to do with that junior, but also with other aspects of her long, long hours of hard work in the company - imploded inside her soul, and her burnout was instant. It took a long, long time, and many hours of therapy, and some hospitalisation, before she was able to return to work, at all.
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  #43  
Old 08.07.2019, 16:36
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Not really, faking depression can see you signed off sick on full pay for months at a time, faking schizophrenia will likely see you sectioned.
Hardly true at all.

Having actual schizophrenia won't get you sectioned either (unless you actually harm yourself or others).

Another case of misdiagnosis (for fifteen years) by a doctor here when it was pretty clear even for someone clueless like me.
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  #44  
Old 08.07.2019, 17:40
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Re: Happy - are you?

Since part of my opening post was about how happy you feel in Switzerland, as opposed to in other countries, and since there’s been some debate on this thread about what does and doesn’t constitute depression or burnout, I thought I’d add the following link about Lynn Payer’s “Medicine and Culture”.

https://www.body-and-brain.com/medic...d-culture.html
The book Medicine & Culture was published first 1988, again 1995, and is still in print. This book compares and contrasts the attitude of physicians and patients in England, France, the USA and in Germany. This is not a book concerning different health systems, but rather a book concerning the fact how differently physicians and patients in these countries use diagnoses and therapies, and how, frequently unexpressed ideologies, thereby participates.

About 20 years ago someone I knew in the UK had an au pair from Germany. When the young woman arrived, she brought her medical information and her medication. She gave her new employer a doctor's certificate that she had low blood-pressure, and how she was to take her medication, and instructions on how an on-looker would need to intervene if she collapsed.

The employer in England noted the blood-pressure values and, thinking that they didn't, in fact, seem low, took the au pair along the next time someone in the family needed to see a doctor.

The English doctor examined the au pair, and declared her to be in good general health, and her blood-pressure to be fine, and normal for an active, fit young woman like herself. The au pair was delighted! She asked whether she still needed to take the medication. No, said the doctor, you don't need that at all. You're fine.

Because of the language gap, the au pair had asked her employer to remain in the doctor's room throughout. In this way, the employer was able to see the blood-pressure measured by the English doctor, and it was exactly the same as that in the German doctor's report. The only difference was one of perception, and of the range considered "low" or not. The employer never told the au pair, who never again took her medication, nor did she ever again feel the need to, nor did she ever feel faint, and six months later she went home to Germany very happy that England had cured her.

Last edited by doropfiz; 08.07.2019 at 17:58. Reason: grammar
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  #45  
Old 08.07.2019, 18:00
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Re: Happy - are you?

Some differences about "happy" are linguistic, too. Like an Englishman saying the day's perfect picnic had been "not bad", which could be misunderstood by other English speakers.
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  #46  
Old 08.07.2019, 19:21
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Well it seems I have to repeat myself, but I labelled your posts bi-polar as often you preach calm and tell people to stop being 'bullying' or 'intimidating', yet then when you are challenged you seem unable to articulate yourself properly and quickly fly off the handle in a petty rage and start to get aggressive and insulting towards people. You have been this way on the forum for years and if I remember correctly have even been banned once or twice as a result.

Just think about it... you have stated multiple times in this thread that depression is not a mental condition and yet provided zero rationale or evidence to back up your claim. Your behaviour is extremely erratic.
I have actually been banned once, and for calling people out for what they are as always when they bully others, mostly newbies.

Actually 'Chuff' .. if you knew me (and not think you know me) I don't drink, don't smoke, don't take drugs, don't eat processed food, don't overdo time on the internet and I'm completely well-balanced. As for my state of mind, I've never been happier, I sleep between 9pm and 6am minimum 8hrs a night. It's an amazing way to cure 'depression' ...

You don't sound at all balanced, looking on here to somehow gain some kind of value to yourself. Sad. Good luck.
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  #47  
Old 08.07.2019, 20:32
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Re: Happy - are you?

Let's please try to stay on topic and avoid the personal comments. Thanks.
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  #48  
Old 08.07.2019, 20:41
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Actually 'Chuff' .. if you knew me (and not think you know me) I don't drink, don't smoke, don't take drugs, don't eat processed food, don't overdo time on the internet and I'm completely well-balanced. As for my state of mind, I've never been happier, I sleep between 9pm and 6am minimum 8hrs a night. It's an amazing way to cure 'depression'
Oh just cut the crap, you are spreading the most blatant ignorant rubbish I've seen in a long time on this forum.

Depressions don't get cured by eating veggie's and sleeping. And tbh I find your postings disturbingly insulting to those who suffered from depression.
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  #49  
Old 08.07.2019, 21:07
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Re: Happy - are you?

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I have actually been banned once, and for calling people out for what they are as always when they bully others, mostly newbies.

Actually 'Chuff' .. if you knew me (and not think you know me) I don't drink, don't smoke, don't take drugs, don't eat processed food, don't overdo time on the internet and I'm completely well-balanced. As for my state of mind, I've never been happier, I sleep between 9pm and 6am minimum 8hrs a night. It's an amazing way to cure 'depression' ...

You don't sound at all balanced, looking on here to somehow gain some kind of value to yourself. Sad. Good luck.
"I don't drink, don't smoke, don't take drugs, don't eat processed food, don't overdo time on the internet" You should check your pulse from time to time to ensure you are still alive
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  #50  
Old 08.07.2019, 21:17
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Re: Happy - are you?

As I observe it, Depression (and I'm talking real Depression, not any acted, pretend version of fake Depression) can on one hand be a cause of, and on the other exacerbated by, drinking too much, smoking, doing drugs, gambling, risk-taking promiscuity, eating junk food, spending too much time on destructive kinds of sites on the internet, being a couch-potato in front of the TV, and sleeping irregularly, too much or too little.

Even though some of those activities are just plain enjoyable, or fun now and again, or even a helpful distraction, for a while, from other pain, those kinds of behaviours - if done persistently and to the exclusion of having resources left for doing what must be done, and what would be healthier to do - are not going to lead to happiness.

However, I don't think Depression is caused by such behaviours, nor it is healed by cleaning up one's act from such behaviours. Even though cleaning up one's act from them might well be an excellent idea. If one has the energy to do so, which a deeply depressed person might not be able to muster.
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Old 08.07.2019, 21:25
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Re: Happy - are you?

@doropfiz
About your au pair/blood pressure story.

It is really quite sad; some people get very concerned when their doctor tells them they fail the magic number test on blood pressure or sugar or cholesterol or whatever. The reality is that there is very little science behind these magic numbers which anyway often vary from country to country.

Mostly they are created by committees so the actual values are driven by the usual compromises and arse covering. Remember the story the zebra is a horse created by a committee that compromised on the colour.

Reality is people are all very different with different genes and histories and physical characteristics so one magic number does not fit all!
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Old 08.07.2019, 21:37
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Actually 'Chuff' .. if you knew me (and not think you know me) I don't drink, don't smoke, don't take drugs, don't eat processed food, don't overdo time on the internet and I'm completely well-balanced. As for my state of mind, I've never been happier, I sleep between 9pm and 6am minimum 8hrs a night. It's an amazing way to cure 'depression' ...
Oh Jesus Christ, enough already. That's on the same level as saying homeopathy cures cancer on veganism cures heart disease. Don't you see how utterly disrespectful, not to mention completely unqualified, your comments are?
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  #53  
Old 08.07.2019, 21:40
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Re: Happy - are you?

Yes, Marton, and if there's money to be made, too, such as shifting a range so that a whole new segment of people "needs" medication.

Though I think it is sometimes hard for doctors to know whether it is a sly move by a pharma company (to sell more blood-pressure increasing drops), or real new medical knowledge showing them how to pick up on a problem earlier, before it becomes very serious (perhaps like early detection of diabetes, which wasn't possible several generations ago, and now many diabetics can manage their illness well).


Over time, the medical fashions seem to come and go, and the pendulum swings first one way and then another, and sometimes back again. Hence discussions on the pros and cons of smoking, drinking milk, mammograms, chemotherapy, vaccinations, etc.


It seems to be similar about Depression. The advocates of healthy living to fix that low mood come into fashion, and then the compassionate people do, and then someone comes back to say Just Get Your Act Together (by whatever prescribed, shake-about method), and then a doctor gives someone sick leave for "too long" (whatever that is deemed to be) and that's also deemed not to be okay. It's partly a matter of current social trends, and partly a matter of personal experience or close observations in either direction.
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  #54  
Old 08.07.2019, 21:41
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Re: Happy - are you?

This thread has spent quite a lot of time on UNhappiness. I'd be interested to know from more people who consider themselves to be happy, what the contributing factors are. And from those who are happy, or unhappy, and have reason to attribute that state, either way, to being in Switzerland, or having been in another country.

Without being too trite, it seems to be that if one's passion is going for a ramble in the forest, and that really makes one happy, well then, Switzerland has a lot to offer. If one has the time and the energy to go out and enjoy it. On the other hand, if someone is here but yearning to study the flora in the desert, well, that's not going to happen, and may leave them unhappy. Similarly with the need to be multilingual. For some that is a thrill, per se, and for others a daily drag.

Some people will become UNHAPPY when they can't do what they love to do, or when they are forced to live in the certain geographical or social circumstances which clip their wings, yet others may have tricks to stay HAPPY (or content, or satisfied, or well enough) despite all that Switzerland seems to "lack", in their eyes, or "force upon them". Yet others make themselves happy by embracing what is here. And some force themselves to embrace and embrace, but it doesn't really seem to fill their tank.

Last edited by doropfiz; 08.07.2019 at 21:54. Reason: adding bits about having time and energy
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  #55  
Old 08.07.2019, 22:26
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Re: Happy - are you?

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This thread has spent quite a lot of time on UNhappiness...
I'm not surprised, to be honest. For those of us whose problems largely fall into the category of FWP, we can always find things to be unhappy about. Also maybe it's more about varying degrees of contentment/satisfaction than happiness?
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Old 08.07.2019, 22:32
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Oh Jesus Christ, enough already. That's on the same level as saying homeopathy cures cancer on veganism cures heart disease. Don't you see how utterly disrespectful, not to mention completely unqualified, your comments are?
No it’s not. There’s been numerous clinical studies that have shown that exercise or even placebos have been as effective, and in some cases more so, than drugs in reducing the symptoms of depression.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592645/

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0041778

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/25/h...t-depends.html
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Old 08.07.2019, 22:41
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Re: Happy - are you?

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No it’s not. There’s been numerous clinical studies that have shown that exercise or even placebos have been as effective, and in some cases more so, than drugs in reducing the symptoms of depression.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592645/

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0041778
Reduce symptoms - maybe. Not cure the disease. Nowhere near the same thing and no, eating broccoli doesn’t cure depression or bipolar disorder.

Last edited by Samaire13; 08.07.2019 at 22:55. Reason: Typo
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Old 08.07.2019, 22:48
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Re: Happy - are you?

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No it’s not. There’s been numerous clinical studies that have shown that exercise or even placebos have been as effective, and in some cases more so, than drugs in reducing the symptoms of depression.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592645/

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0041778

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/25/h...t-depends.html
Eh? Both of those articles advocate a combination of drug therapy as well as non-drug therapy. Neither is stated as ‘more than’ or ‘less than’.
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Old 08.07.2019, 23:31
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Re: Happy - are you?

Errm... not sure whether or not I should wade back in, darker turn that this thread has taken.


In my younger days, I used to suffer what was, in my view, severe depression. Attempted (half heartedly) to end it all a few times. Once, almost succeeded (saved by a technical error).



In my middle aged and older days, was renowned for being grumpy and miserable and negative.


Now, I try to be positive and see the good in everyone and everything.


For me, it really is a state of mind. You can do a lot to make almost anything better or worse, by your own attitude.



(None of this is intended to do down anyone suffering from chemical imbalance or a properly diagnoseable depressive illness. You have my utmost sympathy).



In a former life the Lovely Wife worked as a physio with patients who suffered life-changing traumatic injuries. She once treated two young people at around the same time, who had separate major incidents. One severed their spinal cord falling downstairs, the other in a road traffic accident. Both became suddenly paraplegic.



One took the attitude "my life was over, I'm a cripple". The other? "Fantastic! Now I can become a paralympic athlete".


Guess which one went on to lead the most fulfilling life, recovered better, met someone, married and had kids?

Someone to love
Something to do
Something to look forward to


Regards




Ian
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Old 09.07.2019, 00:00
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Re: Happy - are you?

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if you knew me (and not think you know me) I don't drink, don't smoke, don't take drugs, don't eat processed food, don't overdo time on the internet and I'm completely well-balanced. As for my state of mind, I've never been happier, I sleep between 9pm and 6am minimum 8hrs a night. It's an amazing way to cure 'depression'
Nothing what so every to do with depression. As I said you have a lot to learn.
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