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  #101  
Old 10.07.2019, 17:43
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Re: Happy - are you?

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@Pachyderm

with films and TV I was not thinking about perfect families..
Watching Modern Family makes me happy. Try it!
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  #102  
Old 10.07.2019, 18:46
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Re: Happy - are you?

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@Pachyderm

with films and TV I was not thinking about perfect families...

More about the fact that many people live with very limited means but in films and TV no matter how dire the situation the people always seem to have enough money to get drunk in a bar, eat in a nice restaurant, stay in a hotel, go on holiday, take a taxi home, etc.
You'd be surprised.

I know people who are up to their neck in debt, work heaps of overtime in some poor-paying unskilled job just to make ends meet, and complain non stop about how they struggle and how expensive everything is. But they won't think twice about taking another expensive drink only to gulp it down because the bar is about to close, and then catching a taxi home when with just a little bit of planning they could have caught a bus.

They also spend good money on expensive clothes and somehow always have the latest TV. maybe its a way of compensating and / or keeping up appearances.
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  #103  
Old 10.07.2019, 18:58
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Re: Happy - are you?

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I am not sure the expectation to be happy is the problem; more the false expectation to be able to live the sort of comfortable life often portrayed in films or television.
or on the FB/insta/whatever feeds of your friends.
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  #104  
Old 10.07.2019, 19:00
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Re: Happy - are you?

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4) Guidance for diagnosis of actual depression is lacking and has led to a sharp rise in the people being mis-diagnosed with depression and being prescribed anti-depressant, for which the withdrawal from can be a nightmare https://www.bbc.com/news/health-47740396
Yes. I do know one man who, thinking he had some issues but not depression, asked his G.P. for advice. The G.P. and the patient agreed that he needed psychotherapy. However, the G.P. explained that he first had to prescribe anti-depressants and only if they didn't help after 2 or 3 months would he be permitted to put the patient's name on the waiting list for psychotherapy. Why? Rulz is rulz. Once the patient had jumped those hoops (and the anti-depressant didn't help a jot) and made it to see the psychologist, he found it really helpful.

When the maximum permitted number of sessions was over, he asked the G.P. to prescribe an extension. This, too, would be possible only after he had tried out a different anti-depressant. It made him feel suicidal, which he had not previously known. The G.P. apologised, told him how reduce the dose gradually, down to zero, and said that at least that experience would enable him to put the patient on the fast-track waiting list for psychotherapy.
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  #105  
Old 10.07.2019, 19:06
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Re: Happy - are you?

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You'd be surprised.

I know people who are up to their neck in debt, work heaps of overtime in some poor-paying unskilled job just to make ends meet, and complain non stop about how they struggle and how expensive everything is. But they won't think twice about taking another expensive drink only to gulp it down because the bar is about to close, and then catching a taxi home when with just a little bit of planning they could have caught a bus.

They also spend good money on expensive clothes and somehow always have the latest TV. maybe its a way of compensating and / or keeping up appearances.
That's interesting.
Why do you think that they are doing that?
How would they explain why they are doing that?
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  #106  
Old 10.07.2019, 21:01
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Depression is now the most common illness treated by doctors in the UK...People need to remember that anxiety and stress can be good things that can be used well.
I think the most common are anxiety disorders, of which depression is one.

A little anxiety, a little stress in order that we care just enough about the task in hand, that the adrenaline is flowing to help us focus on that exam, that race etc is indeed a Good Thing. However, existing in a near-constant fight/flight state is debilitating in the extreme.
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  #107  
Old 11.07.2019, 12:47
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Re: Happy - are you?

Anyone interested in reading somewhat counterintuitive or even controversial discussions on life's big questions, read some stuff from this guy, including the article linked here: https://markmanson.net/stop-trying-to-be-happy

And nope, this won't be everyone's cup of tea; as always, tastes differ.
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  #108  
Old 11.07.2019, 13:19
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Re: Happy - are you?

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I doubt it is TV or movies...but FB (or whatever online thing). Makes people compare themselves to the extreme with normal earthlings (as opposed to fiction, I think flicks don't do it anymore....like books don't), asking themselves "How come this perfect happy FB friend has what I don't." The fact that people purposely craft and create their online personas and online lives...doesn't hit home, always. The simple rules of branding. It is like with online dating - "millions of happy couples" it ain't. Conartists. People get happier when they trust themselves enough to control less. Sounds zen, doesn't it. I don't know much about budhism.
Whatever the medium, it is the act of comparison. Comparing yourself to people you perceive to be higher in Status in some dimension - richer, smarter, more attractive, healthier, more traveled can increase negative perceptions. But I think this is pervasive among all sorts of media - social, entertainment, celebrity.

Lots of people consume other types of media beyond fb. Not saying fb isn’t a contributor, but I believe you need to look beyond this one vehicle. To be honest, most of the regular people I know aren’t putting on a con....but, there are celebrities, wannabe celebs who do craft their own world. And people follow them....lots of voyeurism.

Social comparison has been around for a long time, and it really serves to make people feel worse about themselves.
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  #109  
Old 11.07.2019, 13:37
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Re: Happy - are you?

^ 100% agree with this. As the saying goes, "comparison is the thief of joy".

Not that comparisons are the root of all happiness or unhappiness, but comparing ourselves to those we perceive have more/better than we do can contribute to the extremes if one already has a chemical imbalance.
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  #110  
Old 11.07.2019, 14:30
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Re: Happy - are you?

I agree that bitter comparisons can make one unhappy. But occasionally they can inspire... like when one admires a teacher or a top-class sportsperson or musician, and the comparison ("My tennis serve is a trillion times worse than Federer's.") can motivate an amateur tennis-player to watch and replay videos of Federer, and try out his moves, to become more like him.

The same thing can happen at Toastmasters or in good working environments, where one can be stunned by the ease with which someone mastered a topic or a situation, admire that in them, seek to learn and emulate, and then feel happy when it suddenly becomes clear that - thanks to the honest comparison and some hard work - one has been able to progress, and do things better.
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  #111  
Old 11.07.2019, 14:37
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Re: Happy - are you?

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That's interesting.
Why do you think that they are doing that?
How would they explain why they are doing that?
I'm guessing it's more of a "perception" of a situation.

Most people wouldn't confess to being "up to their neck in debt" whilst bemoaning their pittance of a wage whilst at the same time showing you their brand new 80" screen telly and tickets to the Caribbean.

Probably exists somewhere on a lesser scale.
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  #112  
Old 11.07.2019, 19:02
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Probably exists somewhere on a lesser scale.
Oh it does, and I've just put up with her for the best part of a week. Her classic line is "You've no idea how tiresome and expensive it gets looking after 3 houses." Then...and this slays me...she invites us out to dinner, the group is 7 adults and two toddlers, orders adult portions for the toddlers and gets the restaurant to wrap them to go, feeds the kids from our plates, and leaves the restaurant before the bill arrives so that my OH is stuck with the bill yet again.
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  #113  
Old 11.07.2019, 19:12
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Re: Happy - are you?

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I agree that bitter comparisons can make one unhappy. But occasionally they can inspire... like when one admires a teacher or a top-class sportsperson or musician, and the comparison ("My tennis serve is a trillion times worse than Federer's.") can motivate an amateur tennis-player to watch and replay videos of Federer, and try out his moves, to become more like him.

The same thing can happen at Toastmasters or in good working environments, where one can be stunned by the ease with which someone mastered a topic or a situation, admire that in them, seek to learn and emulate, and then feel happy when it suddenly becomes clear that - thanks to the honest comparison and some hard work - one has been able to progress, and do things better.
I agree, there are comparisons which are prescriptive and provide an example to follow. It’s sort of how we learn.

You can compare something, use it as a good idea, an example to follow, or you can make the same comparison and use it in a self deprecating manner. I think it has to do with the attitude of the perceiver, the frame.
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  #114  
Old 11.07.2019, 23:49
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Re: Happy - are you?

Yes, I think that about knowledge/skills/learning, about experiences, and also about physical objects.

Sometimes seeing that other person who can ice-skate or play the violin so well can be depressing… if one flagelates oneself for not being able to do as well. Or it can be inspiring, to practice harder and become more like them. Or just... enjoyable, which would explain part of the huge popularity of talent shows, and how millions of people just get at happy thrill when someone provides a super performance and it's wonderful (with neither self-deprication nor envy, nor inspiration to do likewise) that they get Four Yesses, or the Golden Buzzer.

Sometimes I can feel really happy listening to someone else tell me about how they felt during an exprience that I, myself, would never want to have. I like being allowed to peek into their heart and mind, because it stretches my set of experiences to those outside of my reach even if I were to want them, or which I don't desire in the first place, yet it is educational and fun to hear others telling me how they did it. I don't even want to be a rock star.

In the same way, I can feel happy looking at weird art works I would never want to own, nor to reproduce. Or appreciate the small, exquisite details of careful home-decor in a style I wouldn't want to have myself, nor does admiring someone else's perfection make me beat myself up with reproaches that my home is less "perfect".

I remember being booked for a babysitting job, years ago, and laughing when the children's father arrived to fetch me in a Maserati. It seemed so absurdly contrary to the social context! And was a momentary thrill to be swept along in that elegance, yet I don't feel bad that I don't own one myself. Nor did I then. One of my fellow students, however, went into a near swoon every time that Maserati arrived, and he seemed to suffer, in some vulnerable part of his soul (and I am not mocking, not at all, his feelings were real and the car was a symbol of something deeper) that he came from a background, and could anticipate a future, in which, realistically, Maseratis would not feature.

You are so right, edot, that it has to do with the attitude of the perceiver.
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  #115  
Old 11.07.2019, 23:52
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Oh it does, and I've just put up with her for the best part of a week. Her classic line is "You've no idea how tiresome and expensive it gets looking after 3 houses." Then...and this slays me...she invites us out to dinner, the group is 7 adults and two toddlers, orders adult portions for the toddlers and gets the restaurant to wrap them to go, feeds the kids from our plates, and leaves the restaurant before the bill arrives so that my OH is stuck with the bill yet again.
Yuck! Horrible! Is there any way you could just eliminate her out of your life? Wouldn't you be happier then?

EDIT: Just to clarify (in the light of greenmount's post 117 below, about envy) that I was not saying "yuck" to YOU, Blueangel, but to the behaviour of this "She" who sets you and OH up, apparently repeatedly.

Last edited by doropfiz; 12.07.2019 at 12:17.
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  #116  
Old 12.07.2019, 07:45
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Oh jeez. You’re probably one of those who would tell someone who’s suffering from depression to just “go for a nice long walk to clear their head”
Well it worked for Forest Gump!

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  #117  
Old 12.07.2019, 09:47
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Re: Happy - are you?

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I agree that bitter comparisons can make one unhappy. But occasionally they can inspire... like when one admires a teacher or a top-class sportsperson or musician, and the comparison ("My tennis serve is a trillion times worse than Federer's.") can motivate an amateur tennis-player to watch and replay videos of Federer, and try out his moves, to become more like him.

The same thing can happen at Toastmasters or in good working environments, where one can be stunned by the ease with which someone mastered a topic or a situation, admire that in them, seek to learn and emulate, and then feel happy when it suddenly becomes clear that - thanks to the honest comparison and some hard work - one has been able to progress, and do things better.
I was thinking the same. Looking at others and comparing myself with them did help me get my head on straight in a couple of occasions and reevaluate my patterns and saw what I did wrong or what I didn't do enough. I am (mildly) competitive but don't envy anyone, I try to understand where I stand in certain circumstances in order to improve what can be improved and inspire myself from other patterns that proved to be more successful.
Envy is a very bitter sentiment, yuk, I don't like it. I am usually pleased for those folks who succeeded by hard work and determination. Also, I think comparing oneself with movies stars or other public personalities is more of a teenage/very young people thing.
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  #118  
Old 12.07.2019, 12:15
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Re: Happy - are you?

Am I happy?
When I read Omtatsat's post 116?
Yes, yes and yes. Burst out laughing, sitting here chuckling. Oh, Brother of My Sense of Humour, I missed you while you were away.

Okay, now, https://youtu.be/Iu7vySQbgXI, and back to the serious business of decorously discussing happiness.
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  #119  
Old 12.07.2019, 12:19
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Re: Happy - are you?

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Envy is a very bitter sentiment, yuk, I don't like it.
Yes. And if ever I notice it creeping up (usually not, occasionally it stings a little), I try to eliminate it.

In the light of this post of greenmount's, I've editedmy post 115, above, because I realised that it was ambigous, and could have been misunderstood to mean I was throwing the "yuck" at Blueangel, which is not what I had meant.
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  #120  
Old 12.07.2019, 12:52
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Re: Happy - are you?

No worries luv 😀
As for that woman, she's family unfortunately, and living proof that having a jealous soul males you ugly regardless of how pretty the exterior may be. She allows it to eat the last grains of good grace that she ever possessed. It's a shame...
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