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Old 23.07.2019, 16:27
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Re: vaccination dispute

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Just that I get this right: there are anti-vax doctors in CH?!
We had a doctor in Switzerland try and prescribe my daughter homeopathic remedies.

Let's not forget it was a medical doctor that started the whole vaccines cause autism mess.
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Old 23.07.2019, 17:10
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Re: vaccination dispute

Some vaccines are given in pharmacies as walk-ins - the tick one (three doses), for example, but maybe others, too.

What I would do, in addition to informing myself on the Swiss legal side of the situation (order not important):

1. Does your child know about vaccines? Talk with her and teach her.

2. Does she have any knowledge of how vaccines work and what happens when we don't use them (individual vs herd protection)? Of course, age appropriate understanding, not PhD level immunology. Again, talk with her and teach her.

3. Does she have any allergies, specifically to albumin, or other vaccine ingredients? You, as her parent, should know if she has any.

4. If you share custody equally, including making major decisions, I would challenge the ex's decision.

5. Plan to do it on the sly with your child's agreement and cooperation and a doctor or your choice. Keep the record booklet at your house. Give it to your child when they reach 16 or 18.
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Old 23.07.2019, 17:15
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Re: vaccination dispute

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Some vaccines are given in pharmacies as walk-ins - the tick one (three doses), for example, but maybe others, too.
As with so many things it depends on the canton what vaccinations are available at the pharmacy. For example in canton Aargau you can not get any, in canton Luzern on the other hand you can get all standard vaccinations.

See this website https://impfapotheke.ch/ for more information what is available in your canton in which pharmacy.
(I once considered to hop over to Luzern to get a simple DiTe shot)
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Old 23.07.2019, 17:41
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Re: vaccination dispute

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Hmmm, that Mum should be made to visit a hospital and whilst at it, also a a residental home for handicapped children to see what might happen if she lets her daughter remain unprotected against many illnesses. Or better, the mum should endure one of those illneses you can vaccinate against nowadays, it is no laughing matter!!!!!

I am a daughter of a man who had Polio as a kid (and saw subsequently first-hand all the hurdles he had to over come)....and then I went and trained in a nursing profession.

During my working years in nursing (1984-1996) I came across; handicapped kids that caught measles and became blind and/or deaf, 2 elderly farmer's wives not having had tetanus shots, hurt themselves gardening and both developped catalepsy, one of them died.
Several elderly people that suffered from tuberculosis and pertussis.......without question my offspring all got inoculated!

One thing I also think super important in young girls and boys ,is the HPV (human papilloma virus) vaccination, which will help prevent cancer of the reproduction organs

Unfortunately, there seems not much that you can do, but hope that your girl might one day decide herself to get vaccinated....or maybe shock the mother into action by showing her what might happen.......

It would be great having my ex meet with someone like you who has unfortunately experienced those horrible diseases from very close. My ex has the very narrow minded attitude "it won't happen to us because we live in Switzerland, it is very safe and none of those diseases exist here ..."
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Old 23.07.2019, 17:47
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Re: vaccination dispute

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It would be great having my ex meet with someone like you who has unfortunately experienced those horrible diseases from very close. My ex has the very narrow minded attitude "it won't happen to us because we live in Switzerland, it is very safe and none of those diseases exist here ..."
Does she not read the news?
Measles is very definitely present in Switzerland and children have even died from it this year.
Not to mention whooping cough which is also very much in existence here.
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Old 23.07.2019, 17:59
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Re: vaccination dispute

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"it won't happen to us because we live in Switzerland, it is very safe and none of those diseases exist here ..."[/I]
https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/de/home...allzahlen.html

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/de/home...meldungen.html

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/de/home...k/tetanus.html
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Old 23.07.2019, 18:02
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Re: vaccination dispute

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Does she not read the news?
Measles is very definitely present in Switzerland and children have even died from it this year.
Not to mention whooping cough which is also very much in existence here.

My daughter did have the whooping cough last winter, the coughing went on for several months. It only helped reinforce my ex's beliefs that our daughter's immune system is so good without vaccinations that she will overcome any of those diseases.
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Old 23.07.2019, 18:31
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Re: vaccination dispute

I know it stresses you but don't let your kid know how much you disapprove with her mom's decision. I'd get a legal advice on this, draft an official letter to her mom to agree to vax your kid, post a copy to maybe her school and day care. There were school events/daycare organized where I had to sign that my child was vaxed. Maybe exposure might make your ex reconsider. Hiding a child at home not providing what is considered basic civivilized health care feels different when having the news travel across the authorities.
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Old 23.07.2019, 18:42
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Re: vaccination dispute

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Just that I get this right: there are anti-vax doctors in CH?!
Well, at the moment there is even someone in the Bundesrat, who ensured in their previous position that anti-vax views are being propagated.
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Old 23.07.2019, 18:52
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Re: vaccination dispute

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"it won't happen to us because we live in Switzerland, it is very safe and none of those diseases exist here ..."

That's a terrible argument she has there.

What about her 'gap year' in SE Asia? Or getting on any plane?Or language exchange for 3 months in London?


I'd go with FunnyBone's idea.
Educate her, form a pact, innoculate.
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Old 23.07.2019, 22:55
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Re: vaccination dispute

I know someone like this and it is almost impossible to change their mind. The problem with this kind of belief is that we tend to be drawn to evidences that reinforce our belief. You can show her tons of proves that anti vaccine is stupid but just one single case of vaccine gone wrong somewhere in the world and that's all she will see and focus on.
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Old 24.07.2019, 07:22
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Re: vaccination dispute

Iím not sure the school policy, but could this be a route to Ďforce the handí of your ex. Iím firstly amazed that it is not enforced here, but also if itís not enforced at school. Tricky situation though. Iíve debated with anti vaxxers and itís almost pointless.
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Old 24.07.2019, 08:11
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Re: vaccination dispute

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It would be great having my ex meet with someone like you who has unfortunately experienced those horrible diseases from very close. My ex has the very narrow minded attitude "it won't happen to us because we live in Switzerland, it is very safe and none of those diseases exist here ..."
Is this the sole reason? Switzerland is not a mountain valley cut off from the rest of the world by avalanches 8 months of the year. Literally millions of Swiss travel every year to the rest of the world, susceptible to diseases they have not been vaccinated against. Then they return to Switzerland.

Many millions more travel to Switzerland from the four corners of the planet, some already ill, or perhaps carriers, that canít be screened or kept out.

When these diseases are eradicated, then we can consider stopping vaccinations. But not for our generations, nor the next.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society...rland/42993356
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  #34  
Old 24.07.2019, 08:52
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Re: vaccination dispute

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Just that I get this right: there are anti-vax doctors in CH?!
Then they are not doctors in the sense we recognise, no matter what the piece of paper says
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Old 24.07.2019, 12:20
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Re: vaccination dispute

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Just that I get this right: there are anti-vax doctors in CH?!
I actually called and had a chat with the anti-vax Swiss pediatrician primary doctor of my daughter. I called because I get specially uneasy while traveling to some place where there have been reports of recent outbreaks of at least one of those diseases.

I was going for holidays with my daughter to Genoa Italy where there have been Measles outbreaks recently due to lack of vaccination https://www.thelocal.it/20181115/man...sles-outbreaks. We were going to visit the Genoa Aquarium which has not only locals but also people from all over the world visiting.

The answer from the Swiss pediatrician was "which exact Measles strain vaccination are you thinking about? because there are multiple Measles strains and doesn't make sense vaccinating against all of them. The only thing that you should worry about is not having a car accident rather than being exposed to Measles. If you convince the mother then I will be happy to vaccinate your daughter".

Needless to say, I broke out in a sweat every time a kid coughed at the Aquarium.
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Old 24.07.2019, 12:34
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Re: vaccination dispute

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I actually called and had a chat with the anti-vax Swiss pediatrician primary doctor of my daughter. I called because I get specially uneasy while traveling to some place where there have been reports of recent outbreaks of at least one of those diseases.

I was going for holidays with my daughter to Genoa Italy where there have been Measles outbreaks recently due to lack of vaccination https://www.thelocal.it/20181115/man...sles-outbreaks. We were going to visit the Genoa Aquarium which has not only locals but also people from all over the world visiting.

The answer from the Swiss pediatrician was "which exact Measles strain vaccination are you thinking about? because there are multiple Measles strains and doesn't make sense vaccinating against all of them. The only thing that you should worry about is not having a car accident rather than being exposed to Measles. If you convince the mother then I will be happy to vaccinate your daughter".

Needless to say, I broke out in a sweat every time a kid coughed at the Aquarium.
I am fully with you and still cannot believe that we are discussing this in 2019. Ok, some US bible belters might be sillyÖ but a medical professional in Europe is something on a totally different level. Measels vaccination is mandatory in Germany, parents get fined if they dont do it.

Simple question: I am sure that 99% of doctors are on your side. Could you not take her to another one and get it done without informing the first one?
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Old 24.07.2019, 13:13
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Re: vaccination dispute

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The answer from the Swiss pediatrician was "which exact Measles strain vaccination are you thinking about? because there are multiple Measles strains and doesn't make sense vaccinating against all of them. The only thing that you should worry about is not having a car accident rather than being exposed to Measles. If you convince the mother then I will be happy to vaccinate your daughter".
What an idiot I cannot believe these people are allowed to practice with statements like this.
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  #38  
Old 24.07.2019, 13:19
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Re: vaccination dispute

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The answer from the Swiss pediatrician was "which exact Measles strain vaccination are you thinking about? because there are multiple Measles strains and doesn't make sense vaccinating against all of them.
This is a horrendous half-truth. Yes there are several strains (in fact 24 are known at the moment) but a single vaccine protects against all of them. This is because the measles virus is 'antigenically monotypic' which means the proteins on the surface of the virus that induce immunity are non-variable in all these strains. This is opposed to viruses like flu and HIV that 'drift' in the surface proteins or sugars over time due to mutations.

I'm really puzzled if such peds are really undertrained to know these facts or consciously push them away to be able to fulfill the demands of anti-vax parents
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Old 24.07.2019, 13:25
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Re: vaccination dispute

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The answer from the Swiss pediatrician was "which exact Measles strain vaccination are you thinking about? because there are multiple Measles strains and doesn't make sense vaccinating against all of them. The only thing that you should worry about is not having a car accident rather than being exposed to Measles. If you convince the mother then I will be happy to vaccinate your daughter".
Fck me this is a stupidly idiotic and irresponsible response from a doctor. The measles vaccine works against all the strains...

Really, talk to the cantonal doctor, you could potentially build a case of malpractice against this pediatrician. He/she might have gotten similar complaints, a letter from the cantonal doctor is not something he can ignore

But at the end of the day the crux of the problem here is actually the last sentence - the mother doesn't want to vaccinate, the rest is just babble. You need to find a legal way to get around the opposition of the mother.
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Old 24.07.2019, 13:28
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Re: vaccination dispute

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This is a horrendous half-truth. Yes there are several strains (in fact 24 are known at the moment) but a single vaccine protects against all of them. This is because the measles virus is 'antigenically monotypic' which means the proteins on the surface of the virus that induce immunity are non-variable in all these strains. This is opposed to viruses like flu and HIV that 'drift' in the surface proteins or sugars over time due to mutations.

I'm really puzzled if such peds are really undertrained to know these facts or consciously push them away to be able to fulfill the demands of anti-vax parents
It shows a distinct lack of knowledge and a basic understanding of how this vaccine works. Hence my previous comment.
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