Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11.08.2019, 16:29
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,599
Groaned at 126 Times in 117 Posts
Thanked 24,853 Times in 9,587 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
Could be, sure. I wouldn't call humility "a flaw".

My point was this however:
I don‘t think it concerns humility. It‘s about self respect. If you can‘t respect yourself you can‘t respect anyone. This seems to have got confused and mangled in these weird times we are living in.

I‘m not sure there are more people acting self entitled, and you definitely hear offers of help more than utterances of self-entitlement, at least that’s how I find it in my sphere. Most people are decent and helpful. Obviously you get a painful few who think the universe revolves around them but they don‘t seem to make up the majority by any means.

I’d rather deal with someone who knows their worth and has a modicum of self respect than an embittered yes-man.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 11.08.2019, 17:12
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,410
Groaned at 35 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 10,698 Times in 3,218 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
"What do I get out of it?" or "I am entitled to.." is something one hears far more often than "How can I help".
I hear the latter a lot more* than the former. Maybe I just look particularly helpless

*from people over the age of 5
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 11.08.2019, 17:16
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 10,529
Groaned at 129 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 15,248 Times in 6,669 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
"What do I get out of it?" or "I am entitled to.." is something one hears far more often than "How can I help".
Quote:
View Post
I hear the latter a lot more* than the former. Maybe I just look particularly helpless

*from people over the age of 5
I agree with MathNut on this one. I can’t remember a time when I’ve heard either of the first two to be honest ( other than the troll type posts on here).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 11.08.2019, 17:42
omtatsat's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Timbuktoo/Zürich
Posts: 8,191
Groaned at 1,551 Times in 845 Posts
Thanked 3,600 Times in 2,296 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
According to which yardsticks do you measure the worthwhileness, the value and use, to yourself, and/or to others, of your existence and your actions? What constitutes "a life usefully lived"?

Do you consider your own contribution to the world (or to yourself, or to others around you) as minimal, average or exemplary? Do others notice and esteem what you do? Whether yes or no, does this matter to you, discourage you, motivate you? Or are you perhaps indifferent to the opinions of some others, while the evaluation of your life by some specific other people might be important to you (your [potential] employer, your grandmother, a religious leader, a lover or spouse, your child's schoolteacher, a mentor, someone evaluating your application for Swiss citizenship)?

What is important to you in steering your choices (or trying to influence others in their choices) to be more valuable and useful to yourself and/or to others (if, indeed, you do even want to be more valuable and useful)? Any of these, or any others?
Money, making people happy, self-determination, getting personal satisfaction, falling into bed exhausted but content at the end of the day, feeling motivated to get on with the next round in the morning, empowerment, knowing that you saved yourself or someone else, minimising everyday suffering or damage, seeing that a project of yours brings joy or advancement to yourself or to others, freedom of choice, having more possibilities, teaching well, affording others opportunities, personal gratification, appreciating small joys along the way.
What impedes you from choosing as freely as you might wish to, so as to become more a more useful, valuable or worthwhile person, or to carry out more useful, valuable or worthwhile actions? What has helped you to take the route you feel you should, despite impediments or limitations? What has helped you accept limitations, where they could not be overcome?

Do you notice and praise what others do? If yes, why and how? If not, why not? What do you admire, from near or far, about someone else's way of conducting themselves, such that you find them/their actions especially valuable and useful and worthy? Big things, little things? Can you draw motivation from such admirable people's actions or being?

Just as in my separate thread “Happy – are you?” https://www.englishforum.ch/family-m...happy-you.html I’d be interested in a general discussion, but also specifically about whether or not your perspective on what makes your life valuable and useful, to you yourself and/or to others, is different for living in Switzerland, compared to how you saw such matters while living in any other country.
Wow. Pretty heavy shit there man!
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank omtatsat for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 11.08.2019, 20:14
RufusB's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: In my head. And UK. Ex-Basel.
Posts: 3,612
Groaned at 62 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 5,766 Times in 2,326 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
I think this would be true if one immediately jumped to comparison. But why do that. I think it is important to ask oneself how useful or helpful one is to others. "What do I get out of it?" or "I am entitled to.." is something one hears far more often than "How can I help".
Nope. Is bollox. Now I think you're doing this deliberately.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 12.08.2019, 08:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: St Gallen
Posts: 534
Groaned at 44 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 283 Times in 167 Posts
Gramatyka356 has earned some respectGramatyka356 has earned some respect
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
I'm just genuinely thinking about my own life, and of those of some people around me, and about whether living in Switzerland influences one's thinking and sense of self, in this regard. I'm recalling what it was like to live in other countries, and whether or not I saw things in the same way, then.
I also sometimes stop spontaneously reflecting about my life, but I'm sure it's not only about where I am in my life now but what's my age ;-) The perception of things changes so much when you reach another level. By level I mean kind of spiritual/intellectual/wisdom combined state. Looking back I clearly see every 5 to 10 years changes my life significantly, changes how I perceive my past and what I would like to achieve next.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Gramatyka356 for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 12.08.2019, 08:52
omtatsat's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Timbuktoo/Zürich
Posts: 8,191
Groaned at 1,551 Times in 845 Posts
Thanked 3,600 Times in 2,296 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
I also sometimes stop spontaneously reflecting about my life, but I'm sure it's not only about where I am in my life now but what's my age ;-) The perception of things changes so much when you reach another level. By level I mean kind of spiritual/intellectual/wisdom combined state. Looking back I clearly see every 5 to 10 years changes my life significantly, changes how I perceive my past and what I would like to achieve next.
Yes. Could be early dementia
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12.08.2019, 08:56
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: St Gallen
Posts: 534
Groaned at 44 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 283 Times in 167 Posts
Gramatyka356 has earned some respectGramatyka356 has earned some respect
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
Yes. Could be early dementia
I bet my brain is not going to absorb the world forever but perhaps reach it's peak and then.... so what,
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Gramatyka356 for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 12.08.2019, 09:38
StirB's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,361
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 5,777 Times in 2,494 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

There can be no value judgments on somebody's life, nobody knows what the ultimate goal of life is. Follow one basic tenet and your life is worthwhile though...

"Be excellent to each other".
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank StirB for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 12.08.2019, 09:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,659
Groaned at 663 Times in 483 Posts
Thanked 15,584 Times in 6,110 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
According to which yardsticks do you measure the worthwhileness, the value and use, to yourself, and/or to others, of your existence and your actions? What constitutes "a life usefully lived"?

Do you consider your own contribution to the world (or to yourself, or to others around you) as minimal, average or exemplary? Do others notice and esteem what you do? Whether yes or no, does this matter to you, discourage you, motivate you? Or are you perhaps indifferent to the opinions of some others, while the evaluation of your life by some specific other people might be important to you (your [potential] employer, your grandmother, a religious leader, a lover or spouse, your child's schoolteacher, a mentor, someone evaluating your application for Swiss citizenship)?

What is important to you in steering your choices (or trying to influence others in their choices) to be more valuable and useful to yourself and/or to others (if, indeed, you do even want to be more valuable and useful)? Any of these, or any others?
Money, making people happy, self-determination, getting personal satisfaction, falling into bed exhausted but content at the end of the day, feeling motivated to get on with the next round in the morning, empowerment, knowing that you saved yourself or someone else, minimising everyday suffering or damage, seeing that a project of yours brings joy or advancement to yourself or to others, freedom of choice, having more possibilities, teaching well, affording others opportunities, personal gratification, appreciating small joys along the way.
What impedes you from choosing as freely as you might wish to, so as to become more a more useful, valuable or worthwhile person, or to carry out more useful, valuable or worthwhile actions? What has helped you to take the route you feel you should, despite impediments or limitations? What has helped you accept limitations, where they could not be overcome?

Do you notice and praise what others do? If yes, why and how? If not, why not? What do you admire, from near or far, about someone else's way of conducting themselves, such that you find them/their actions especially valuable and useful and worthy? Big things, little things? Can you draw motivation from such admirable people's actions or being?

Just as in my separate thread “Happy – are you?” https://www.englishforum.ch/family-m...happy-you.html I’d be interested in a general discussion, but also specifically about whether or not your perspective on what makes your life valuable and useful, to you yourself and/or to others, is different for living in Switzerland, compared to how you saw such matters while living in any other country.
Did you copy and paste this BS from some psychology text or website?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12.08.2019, 10:50
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,383
Groaned at 269 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 15,822 Times in 6,716 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 12.08.2019, 10:57
omtatsat's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Timbuktoo/Zürich
Posts: 8,191
Groaned at 1,551 Times in 845 Posts
Thanked 3,600 Times in 2,296 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
I bet my brain is not going to absorb the world forever but perhaps reach it's peak and then.... so what,
It reaches it's peak at 25 years. So you must be younger than 25?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 13.08.2019, 21:33
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: St Gallen
Posts: 534
Groaned at 44 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 283 Times in 167 Posts
Gramatyka356 has earned some respectGramatyka356 has earned some respect
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
It reaches it's peak at 25 years. So you must be younger than 25?
Guess my brain was lagging behind the statistics. I was basically useless junk partying all days till I was 28
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Gramatyka356 for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 13.08.2019, 21:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,166
Groaned at 42 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 6,943 Times in 2,905 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
There can be no value judgments on somebody's life, nobody knows what the ultimate goal of life is. Follow one basic tenet and your life is worthwhile though...

"Be excellent to each other".
Yes, nobody knows. Yet some people do, indeed, have the temerity to pass value judgments on other people's lives, sometimes terribly harshly so, even though nobody knows the sufferings or burdens of another.

Years ago at a tram stop, I watched as a junkie, very hyped, desperately thin, shaking, and not really even seeing the people he addressed, begged. A very stylish Sprüngli woman who could have been his grandmother told him that he ought to be ashamed of himself, that he and his type were a scourge in our society, that people like him turned our beautiful city into filthy rags. He physically recoiled from her. As he turned away, I happed to be next in line to be begged from. I had a coin in my jacked pocket, so I gave it to him (I don't usually, but the guy had taken a really ugly verbal beating.) Suddenly his eyes cleared, and he said to me: "Thank you. If I can scrape enough together, this time I'm going to buy double. Maybe it'll be the Golden Shot, and I'll be outta here. Whatever is afterwards, surely I won't have to be reduced to dirt by tirades from such hateful people."
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 13.08.2019, 21:55
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,055
Groaned at 98 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 6,552 Times in 2,502 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
Can't say I've ever thought about any of that. Nor do I intend to.
This.

I don't have children nor do I want to have any. My job is meaningful to me but mundane in the big scheme of things. I don't do any particularly selfless acts and my contribution to the world will be minimal at best. So one could say I might as well stop here But I don't and won't.

I don't have a particular need to define my worth or value and agree with others that it can be a dangerous question to ponder in many ways. I even feel it's counterproductive - too many people focus on how special they presumably are, when in reality most are by definition average. Of course that doesn't make them useless or worthless, but very, very, very few will do anything in their life that leaves a significant mark way beyond their immediate environment.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 13.08.2019, 21:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,166
Groaned at 42 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 6,943 Times in 2,905 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
...my contribution to the world will be minimal at best.
Your contribution to this forum is very useful, over and over again!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 13.08.2019, 22:00
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,055
Groaned at 98 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 6,552 Times in 2,502 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
Your contribution to this forum is very useful, over and over again!
ok I'll take that

Quote:
View Post
I agree with MathNut on this one. I can’t remember a time when I’ve heard either of the first two to be honest ( other than the troll type posts on here).
People don't say it, but it's often implied.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 13.08.2019, 22:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,166
Groaned at 42 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 6,943 Times in 2,905 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
... agree with others that it can be a dangerous question to ponder in many ways. I even feel it's counterproductive - too many people focus on how special they presumably are, when in reality most are by definition average. Of course that doesn't make them useless or worthless, but very, very, very few will do anything in their life that leaves a significant mark way beyond their immediate environment.
Why dangerous? That's an aspect of my questions that I hadn't seen.

I agree with you that most people are average (as you rightly say, by definition). But perhaps the significant mark, if at all, need be only in one's immediate environment.

I think of questions along these lines more as motivating (at least to myself) to consider ways in which I might change/improve/develop something about how I approach my relationships, work, my way of being, to get closer to something such as, for example, what StirB wrote: "Be excellent to each other".
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 13.08.2019, 22:11
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,055
Groaned at 98 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 6,552 Times in 2,502 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Quote:
View Post
Why dangerous? That's an aspect of my questions that I hadn't seen.
Humans tend to be subjectice and not objective and they will inadvertently compare their presumed worth, value, contribution with that of others and, in doing so, inflate, overestimate and embellish their own. Superiority and narcissim - not good things.

Of course this is a radical view, things are not black and white and there's many steps between the extremes. And to be fair, what others perceive as confidence, I perceive as arrogance, what others see as "knowing their worth", I see as entitlement. So I'm not the best person to have this discussion - though at least I'm aware of it
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 13.08.2019, 22:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,166
Groaned at 42 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 6,943 Times in 2,905 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Worthwhile/valuable/useful - are you?

Oh, I see now. Thanks.

At present, I know two people who are struggling at the opposite extreme of what you mention, feeling their lives to be useless and their worth as less than zero, and that they're a waste of space and have no right to the air they breathe, etc., so I suppose that's why the other end of the scale, as you describe it, just hadn't occurred to me.

Yes, I do agree with you completely that people who strut around boasting about their fantastic achievements can be nauseating.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
happy, usefulness, valuable, worthwhile




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are you experienced Freelance Pilates trainer? - We are looking for you! gzdgvn Jobs offered 0 07.01.2018 20:20
English attestation papers, and how useful are they? vribium Daily life 0 23.01.2013 21:46
You know it's bad when you are given price quote with the question...Are you sitting? V__ Transportation/driving 25 22.12.2011 14:54
Where are you from? When are you going back? Peg A General off-topic 42 04.11.2011 10:38
Share some useful websites you know P92043 Other/general 10 30.04.2010 08:50


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0