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Old 30.10.2019, 20:22
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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Drs take anxiety meds too.
The point is they make terrible patients and often self-diagnose.
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St John's Wort can be very effective, for some people.
But don't take it if you're already on blood thinners.
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  #22  
Old 30.10.2019, 20:37
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.313.7052.253
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Thanks for the drive by groan, Landers. Care to explain why I'm wrong re St John's Wort?
Serious double blind medical research,published in the BMJ and other medical journals, has shown that Hypericum can be effective, as compared to 'traditional' anti-depressants, in a significant proportion of cases.

And of course Melon- it should be taken under supervision or at least by doing the necessary research re increased photo sensitivity and possible interactions. And plants can be very dangerous- I have a plant in my garden I love, 3 different types actually, that can kill very quickly, and whihc grow naturally in the Jura (aconitum/monkshood).

https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.313.7052.253
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Old 30.10.2019, 20:54
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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Be careful with "herbal" remedies: some plants can be extremely dangerous.

A doctor friend of mine has a plant in her garden: if you lay underneath it, within three minutes you'd be dead.

So do, please, be careful.
Is that a manchineel tree?
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Old 30.10.2019, 21:16
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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Is that a manchineel tree?
Water lily.
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Old 31.10.2019, 09:26
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.313.7052.253

Serious double blind medical research,published in the BMJ and other medical journals, has shown that Hypericum can be effective, as compared to 'traditional' anti-depressants, in a significant proportion of cases.
Potato, tomato, I suppose. Though that link is to a trial that is over 20 years old. I doubt it's anywhere near as effective as SSRIs.
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Old 31.10.2019, 11:09
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.313.7052.253

Serious double blind medical research,published in the BMJ and other medical journals, has shown that Hypericum can be effective, as compared to 'traditional' anti-depressants, in a significant proportion of cases.

And of course Melon- it should be taken under supervision or at least by doing the necessary research re increased photo sensitivity and possible interactions. And plants can be very dangerous- I have a plant in my garden I love, 3 different types actually, that can kill very quickly, and whihc grow naturally in the Jura (aconitum/monkshood).

https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.313.7052.253

This is, of course a controlled clinical trial. The problem with many herbal formulations is that the quality is not well controlled, and people taking such formulations are often doing so on their own or via internet advice and dosages are likely inconsistent. Plus, as Meloncollie wrote before, there are lots of warnings and contraindications which people might be unaware of.

I believe that OTC formulations for psycho-reactive substances are often weaker and herbal formulations might be inconsistent in terms of dosage.

You can always drink coffee as a stimulant and sniff lavender to calm. And in many people, the passage of time and distraction provides some relief from anxiety and depression. Just not enough for lots of people who are seriously and chronically affected.
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Old 31.10.2019, 11:56
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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Potato, tomato, I suppose. Though that link is to a trial that is over 20 years old. I doubt it's anywhere near as effective as SSRIs.
Did I say it is? Of course not, It can be effective with some people, with certain forms of depression. I copied this from the BMJ as I remember being quite surprised with the results at the time.

There are of course very good (bad) reasons why so little proper research for plant based medicines with little or no other pharmaceutical input. There is just no money in it for big pharmas. Turmeric has been shown to have a strong effect on some form of cancer (prostate in particular), and in preventing and slowing down Alzheimers. Artemisia absinthinium has been shown to really help with Chrons. Etc. But research costs billions and no-one will invest in finding plant based solutions which can be sourced freely in nature (and have far fewer side-effects generally).
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  #28  
Old 31.10.2019, 12:52
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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There are of course very good (bad) reasons why so little proper research for plant based medicines with little or no other pharmaceutical input. There is just no money in it for big pharmas. Turmeric has been shown to have a strong effect on some form of cancer (prostate in particular), and in preventing and slowing down Alzheimers. Artemisia absinthinium has been shown to really help with Chrons. Etc. But research costs billions and no-one will invest in finding plant based solutions which can be sourced freely in nature
Plant-based solutions are difficult to control in natural form. Dosage, toxicity and stability need to be spot on. Instead, scientists will try to synthesize a drug so it can be reproduced in controlled mass-production.

Aspirin is such a drug who's origins are in willow bark (as I'm sure you know).

As for turmeric, do you really think pharma and scientists in general haven't spent millions examining the properties of this plant?

The problem with turmeric, as far as I understand, is that that there is no real evidence (from clinical trials), that it does anything more than a placebo would do.

And that's the problem, regulation means pharma can't put any health claims on an turmeric-based product without being fraudulent. (In reality, these days, the product just wouldn't get to market).
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Old 31.10.2019, 15:26
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

Got it, totally.

Which does not mean natural plants cannot be effective (and totally different to homeopathy). Dosage and interactions are also huge issues with 'pharma' drugs too, btw. And so is the placebo effect.

Professor Kurt Hostettmann working with Swiss, Chinese and Indian universities and hospitals - says that there are very strong indications that the use of turmeric to slow down Alzheimers is very real. And so is the use of Artemisia absinthinium with Chron's- as I attended one of his lectures recently. He explained well how funding for research with natural ingredients, available to all at liitle or no cost- is hugely difficult as no or little profits.
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  #30  
Old 31.10.2019, 15:30
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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Got it, totally.

Which does not mean natural plants cannot be effective (and totally different to homeopathy). Dosage and interactions are also huge issues with 'pharma' drugs too, btw. And so is the placebo effect.
So when you've got a headache, do you pop a couple of (expensive) aspirin or switch on the stove so you can start boiling down some willow bark?
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Old 31.10.2019, 15:33
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

Come on Tom
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  #32  
Old 31.10.2019, 15:51
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

Surprised that nobody has mentioned Mary Jane.
Suppost to be great agains depression.
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  #33  
Old 31.10.2019, 16:06
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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Water lily.
(c) Adam Kay, "This is going to hurt". An excellent account of a UK junior doctor's experiences. Very funny, very moving.

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Old 31.10.2019, 16:07
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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So when you've got a headache, do you pop a couple of (expensive) aspirin or switch on the stove so you can start boiling down some willow bark?
weeeeelllll, willow bark is expensive too, and electricity for the stove. Guess it'll have to be aspirin then
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Old 31.10.2019, 16:25
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

Go to the gym and throw those meds out. Trust me, I know.
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  #36  
Old 31.10.2019, 17:19
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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(c) Adam Kay, "This is going to hurt". An excellent account of a UK junior doctor's experiences. Very funny, very moving.

Excellent read.
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Old 19.01.2020, 22:37
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

I had a regular Psychiatrist in my home country, who handled my medication the first time I needed it. When I found myself in a bad situation again here, I went to my GP (Hausartz) and explained the situation. They communicated briefly via e-mail and now I carry on my therapy via Skype with my good old shrink, and my Hausarzt is happy to write the prescriptions, as long as they make sense to him, of course :-D
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Old 07.05.2020, 13:10
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

For anyone still curious, St John's Wort actually is quite efficacious for treating mild to moderate depression, with comparable results to SSRI's. 2017 meta-analysis - https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...uzJYI7evBVtuYI

Of course, pharmaceutical companies often fund studies and since these plants are readily grown and processed they tend to de-emphasise the efficacy of such things that don't require you to get a prescription to buy them. It is therefore hard to judge the utility of these things, and when pharmaceutical companies have powerful lobby groups influencing governmental regulations and suggestions.

However, the efficacy of St John's Wort means that it can be just as dangerous as self-medicating with actual SSRI's, which can lead to psychotic episodes at worst.
It has not been found to he useful for ADHD, by the way.

I am not advocating the use of SJW, or giving any medical advice, just noting what has been reported in the literature.
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Old 07.05.2020, 13:48
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

Also, check what interactions (agonist / antagonist) SJW could have with existing medications. Just because something is herbal does not mean it doesn't pack a serious punch, after all, aconite is a plant and you wouldn't want any of that in your mixed greens.

Lavender has been shown to help ease depression while ashwagandha was found helpful for stress and anxiety.

Getting enough sunlight and regular exercise is key, same for sleep.

Scientific evidence for the effectiveness of supplements
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Old 07.05.2020, 13:50
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Re: Prescription-free Medication for Depression/Anxiety/ADHD

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For anyone still curious, St John's Wort actually is quite efficacious for treating mild to moderate depression, with comparable results to SSRI's. 2017 meta-analysis - https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...uzJYI7evBVtuYI
I can confirm that it is. After trying numerous SSRI's and having an almost allergic like reaction to them, my psychiatrist offered them prescribed as an alternative.

They worked very well when I needed them. You are also warned about serotonin syndrome while on them and they do have side effects (excess sweating, sensitivity to light, sun, and the can cancel out effectiveness for certain drugs). For anyone who is struggling to find the right anti depressant with moderate depression, I highly recommend St John's Wort under the guidance of a medical doctor. (Called Jarsin in Switzerland.)
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