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Old 21.01.2020, 11:42
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Do I need a Lawyer at all?

I have separated from my wife 2 years back and now, she has applied for the divorce. The court has sent me the summon notice.

Considering the family lawyers expense is rocket high (I assume so), I would prefer to appear to the court myself, while my ex is going to appear with her lawyer.

Is it advisable to do so?
By appearing myself, would the court deviate from the rule and enforce certain things, which is not favorable to me?


We have following matters to be settled.
1. Child maintenance
2. Visiting rights
3. Matrimonial property (stays outside of Swiss)
4. Gifted Jewellery


Thank you for the kind advise. Since my court proceeding will be in 2 weeks, appreciate your fast response.

Thanks
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Old 21.01.2020, 11:55
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

You will need a lawyer in my humble opinion, not that I think you will be screwed over if you are on your own, impartial courts and all that, you will be screwed over by fact of your wife with the kids...
The courts will always take her side.
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Old 21.01.2020, 12:15
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

If you have already agreed everything, likely not. If you haven't it will be worth every centime.
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Old 21.01.2020, 12:31
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

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You will need a lawyer in my humble opinion, not that I think you will be screwed over if you are on your own, impartial courts and all that, you will be screwed over by fact of your wife with the kids...
The courts will always take her side.
This has happened on my first hearing during the separation

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If you have already agreed everything, likely not. If you haven't it will be worth every centime.
Thought It was agreed and signed between us, before she send that agreement to court, she consulted her lawyer and the lawyer brought everything back to square 1 - It means, no agreement effectively

  • While hiring a lawyer for me, is it possible to agree on certain amount?
  • On which basis amount is decided?
  • Based on my list of matters to be discussed, could you give me a range, I'd have to allocate for my potential lawyer?
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Old 21.01.2020, 13:49
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

Just because she didn't send it to the court, that doesn't mean she didn't agree it. Make sure your lawyer is aware of the agreement, and (I'm assuming) you are prepared to follow it.
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Old 21.01.2020, 13:53
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

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Just because she didn't send it to the court, that doesn't mean she didn't agree it. Make sure your lawyer is aware of the agreement, and (I'm assuming) you are prepared to follow it.
Yes, I planned to put forward that to the court - Thanks for the advise.
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Old 21.01.2020, 13:58
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

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  • While hiring a lawyer for me, is it possible to agree on certain amount?
  • On which basis amount is decided?
  • Based on my list of matters to be discussed, could you give me a range, I'd have to allocate for my potential lawyer?
You don't agree on a fixed amount to do the whole job in divorce cases, unless the amount of work is very specified so the amount of time can be known upfront. If your ex wants a war than you'll need much more of the lawyers time.

What you can do is agree on a maximum amount, however if the hours are used than the lawyer stops his work.
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Old 21.01.2020, 15:41
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

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What you can do is agree on a maximum amount, however if the hours are used than the lawyer stops his work.
Thanks for the idea.

I have spoken with one lawyer. She mentioned that fees would be starting from 5K upto any amount (based on the complexity)
Is this a reasonable fees?
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Old 21.01.2020, 15:45
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

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Considering the family lawyers expense is rocket high (I assume so), I would prefer to appear to the court myself, while my ex is going to appear with her lawyer.

Is it advisable to do so?
100% yes.

You have children and matrimonial property. If you are going to be mean over the cost of legal help, you stand to lose both. I actually know a couple of family law solicitors who didn't represent themselves in financial settlement part of their own divorces, because they were too emotionally invested and needed a second opinion.
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Old 21.01.2020, 16:00
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

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I have separated from my wife 2 years back and now, she has applied for the divorce. The court has sent me the summon notice.

Considering the family lawyers expense is rocket high (I assume so), I would prefer to appear to the court myself, while my ex is going to appear with her lawyer.

Is it advisable to do so?
By appearing myself, would the court deviate from the rule and enforce certain things, which is not favorable to me?


We have following matters to be settled.
1. Child maintenance
2. Visiting rights
3. Matrimonial property (stays outside of Swiss)
4. Gifted Jewellery


Thank you for the kind advise. Since my court proceeding will be in 2 weeks, appreciate your fast response.

Thanks
If you are arguing over gifts, I'd say yes.
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Old 21.01.2020, 16:06
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

If your wife has taken a lawyer already, then it is very likely not going to be an amicable divorce. She is not going to pay him 5k plus without a good reason. And her lawyer might as well up the game in order to milk a few more bucks out of this case.

IMO there is no way you get through this without a lawyer!
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Old 21.01.2020, 23:01
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

I can't imagine that it a good idea to assume that there will be a good outcome if your wife is represented by an professional and you are not. There is so much at stake in a divorce and so much emotion involved.

I urge you to find an expert to assist you in the process. I don't know if this applies to you, but I imagine that you...

1. Do not know your, your (soon to be ex) wife's or your children's legal rights.
2. Are very emotionally involved, perhaps to the point where you are not able to make the best decisions for yourself now and might not be able to think clearly when it counts (in front of a judge).
3. Want to best possible outcome for you and your children.
4. Do not want to be in an asymmetrical situation in which your (soon to be) ex wife is much better informed than you.
5. Do not know the standard solutions for Swiss divorces.
6. Are not prepared for the case that the agreements that you already made with your (soon to be ex) wife are modified or disregarded.
7. May be very soon in a situation where a small and subtle mistake could impact the rest of your life.

I wish you all the best and unfortunately, I think that spending a small fortune now could save you a large fortune in the future. In addition, even if you are unhappy with the outcome, you'll at least know you did your best.
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Old 21.01.2020, 23:38
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

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I can't imagine that it a good idea to assume that there will be a good outcome if your wife is represented by an professional and you are not. There is so much at stake in a divorce and so much emotion involved.

I urge you to find an expert to assist you in the process. I don't know if this applies to you, but I imagine that you...

1. Do not know your, your (soon to be ex) wife's or your children's legal rights.
2. Are very emotionally involved, perhaps to the point where you are not able to make the best decisions for yourself now and might not be able to think clearly when it counts (in front of a judge).
3. Want to best possible outcome for you and your children.
4. Do not want to be in an asymmetrical situation in which your (soon to be) ex wife is much better informed than you.
5. Do not know the standard solutions for Swiss divorces.
6. Are not prepared for the case that the agreements that you already made with your (soon to be ex) wife are modified or disregarded.
7. May be very soon in a situation where a small and subtle mistake could impact the rest of your life.

I wish you all the best and unfortunately, I think that spending a small fortune now could save you a large fortune in the future. In addition, even if you are unhappy with the outcome, you'll at least know you did your best.
Thank you for the advise. Never took a loan. But the situation makes me to do so.
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Old 22.01.2020, 02:35
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

If you need to ask, the answer is YES.
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Old 31.01.2020, 22:14
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

I would definitely go without one. It plays in your favour that you are NOT represented by a professional. Plus you have not infringed the law, you "just" need to come to an agreement with your wife. Judges are well prepared to be fair, even if sometimes we may not understand their angle or point of view.

Another possibility is that you both try to find an agreement by attending a couple's consultant/psychologist. It is always better to come to an agreement than being forced to accept one. Although this requires some amount of cooperation and positive energy from both of you.

Another reason why not taking one: it is not in the lawyers interest to find an agreement quickly, therefore they lengthen the process as much as possible to charge the hourly fees. It is not a secret that a divorce is extremely expensive in CH, there are several posts in this website you can see it by yourself. I know of a recent case, still ongoing, the mum has already spent CHF 60k.

Maybe you need to let go some things, in order to come to an agreement quickly. If you show good will to your wife, she may be sensible and step back too. If not, you will need to be have a clear-mind to prepare your defence (which is not easy in these situations), and keep in mind that your requests to her will need to be fair to both of you and to the children (if any), in order to demonstrate that you are the most reasonable of the two and that you are being constructive rather than destructive.

in any case good luck
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Old 01.02.2020, 01:36
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

Here's some background information, so you can check whether you have understood the basics.
https://www.expatica.com/ch/living/l...erland-106669/

https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce-procedure/

https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce-parental-authority/

https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce-and-mai...contributions/

Also, perhaps some parts of this recent thread may be relevant to your situation:
https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...-citizens.html

Since you know that your wife has a lawyer, yes, yes, as others have said yes, you need a lawyer, too. Although I disagree with Nonalnm that you should not have a lawyer and do not think you should compromise your postion by not having someone at your side who properly understands the Swiss system, I do agree with this part of his/her post: "demonstrate that you are the most reasonable of the two and that you are being constructive rather than destructive".

Last edited by doropfiz; 01.02.2020 at 01:53.
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Old 02.02.2020, 23:12
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

As a divorced person, I can categorically confirm that the only time you do not need a lawyer is if both sides agree to do it without legal representation.


As soon as the other one lawyers up, you have no alternative but to do the same. Otherwise, you will come off much worse than the amount you'll save by doing it yourself.


Being careful with the cash is important, but there are some things in life where scrimping and saving just does not work.


As somebody said to me: "How many times are you planning on getting divorced? If it's just a once in a lifetime thing, then you need to get the very best divorce advice you can, regardless of the expense."


A friend of mine tried to do it himself because he thought 125 GBP an hour was expensive. His ex took him to the cleaners. I paid the best lawyer in town 450 GPB an hour and it saved me a fortune as the judge actually laughed at my ex's attempt to extort more than the 50% of everything we had agreed originally, and made her pay the extra costs.


As has been said before, if you have children you owe it to them to get the best legal representation you can.


This is not to say you should not do your homework, read up on the law, and prepare the evidence and pleadings yourself. Doing that is good, because you will understand how your lawyer is helping - and you will save money by briefing them correctly. Just don't get carried away into thinking you can do better than a professional with X years experience, who is being paid for by your ex.



Regards




Ian
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Old 03.02.2020, 00:08
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

Here is another thread about getting divorced, and lawyers (from someone with a different situation from yours), with tips for doing your own homework, as eairicbloodaxe wrote, and ideas to keep your lawyers fees as low as possible.

https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-...t-anymore.html
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Old 03.02.2020, 15:14
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Re: Do I need a Lawyer at all?

People who avoid legal fees early on frequently come to regret it later. Or would regret it if they knew what they lost.

My spouse died a few years ago. Turns out if I'd consulted a lawyer when we bought property electing community property would have saved me money now I'm selling. It would also have forced the developer to give us a Lex Koller quota which would have made the property more valuable.

Who knew?

The notary used for the purchase had been recommended by the developer. A crook who wasn't looking after my interests. Later disbarred, for other reasons: he had faked his PhD.
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