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  #3721  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can you see the difference between
I've already been informed there is a difference.

The official statement of the government (which I underlined in red, but, it seems futile, as people don't want to see it or they want to interpret it as they like) does not include those:

- who have a dog
- who go for a walk up in the sticks
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  #3722  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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We quarantined people in the early stages. The fact of the matter is, as soon as contagion starts happening within a community tracing and quarantine is doomed. This spread because people are contagious before they show symptoms and a lot of younger folks have little to no symptoms but are still contagious. The contagion started when people came back from vacations in Italy, where they had gone when the virus had not yet been diagnosed over there. "Fun" fact, the first patient in Italy was diagnosed because they were not getting better and they had tested everything else so though "heh why not?" and looked for covid. No one knew it was there, circulating among the population, until it was far too late to contain, over there and over here.

Is this situation we are in now awful? Yes. Cuold it have been avoided? Probably. Would the draconian measures required as soon as China finally admitted their problem have been tolerated by the population? Absolutely not. And thus they would have failed. Democracy and freedom are beautiful, but they also have downsides.
Even tho I was in favour of very strict rules from case one, society would never have tolerated that all bars and schools and non-essential shops in Zürich must close for a month due to one case in for example Ticino.
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  #3723  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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The Swiss government has also decided to introduce border checks with Germany, France and Austria. Only Swiss citizens, Swiss residents and people traveling to Switzerland for business are allowed to enter the Alpine nation.
Does that mean frontaliers? If so, what’s the point?
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  #3724  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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I've already been informed there is a difference.

The official statement of the government (which I underlined in red, but, it seems futile, as people don't want to see it or they want to interpret it as they like) does not include those:

- who have a dog
- who go for a walk up in the sticks
Maybe time to learn the difference between official governmental statements/restrcitions and appeals done by a council member.
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  #3725  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe time to learn the difference between official governmental statements/restrcitions and appeals done by a council member.
The dog makes all the difference
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  #3726  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hello Kally and please help me understand your words.

Do you mean that testing as many people as the system allows (in a country that produces the test) and sharing the result of such process openly (with other countries) is information that should not be collected even less shared?

I think is not a question of exposing names and addresses of people. Is about getting to understand how the virus spreads, affects the body and when and where it recedes... you know better, you are the professional on the field.
I know this information is collected and probably shared with WHO and medical professionals for research purposes (after adequate anonymization).

I don't see why the public needs to know which neighborhood has cases because 1) the public's attitude should be to assume everyone always everywhere is infected 2) this information is potentially dangerous to the patients in said neighborhood and 3) as someone said above this gives a false sense of security in areas that are not flagged as infected. Everywhere is infected. Everywhere. Don't touch things you don't have to touch, stay away from people, wash your hands compulsively and never touch your face. Even if the town you live in hasn't diagnosed a case. Because the keyword there is diagnosed and so many cases fall under everyone's radar because they barely show symptoms. So the town that hasn't yet declared a case probably has 1 or 12 or 150, they just don't know it yet.
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  #3727  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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The fact of the matter is, as soon as contagion starts happening within a community tracing and quarantine is doomed.
So those graphs and campaigns about "flattening the curve" mean what?

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  #3728  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe time to learn the difference between official governmental statements/restrcitions and appeals done by a council member.
talking about retirees being in the town streets and shops - dogs were never mentionned. I do wonder if there are new rules about bees in bonnets?
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  #3729  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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So those graphs and campaigns about "flattening the curve" mean what?

Reducing the numbers of new infections.
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  #3730  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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How should people who are prone to anxiety or depression deal with this situation? I worry about loneliness and my finances, which have been affected directly by the virus.
I was actually thinking same thing today that while this is tough in otherwise as well, for the people have either mental health issues or who are already lonely, this might be very tough situation to be in especially if living alone.

Since I have had my share of anxiety in my life, my best advise on the situation one cannot change is to either rationalize it (is it really that bad and usually answer is no, its not that bad) or to do everything possible to forget it.
Whether its watching netflix, talking on the phone a lot, cleaning my kitchen, reading, working a lot, playing music, doing heavy sports if possible, painting or what ever you enjoy and try to focus on that.
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  #3731  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, I'm also amused how people start writing in bold letters, then red ones, then move on to red bold ones .... the new shouting?
Who will start with the red, bold capitals? This is an English forum, so lets take bets.
It's correlated to the level of irrational fear (as opposed to rational concern) felt by the posters.
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  #3732  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Reducing the numbers of new infections.
The argument preceding was:

"The fact of the matter is, as soon as contagion starts happening within a community tracing and quarantine is doomed."
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  #3733  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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We quarantined people in the early stages. The fact of the matter is, as soon as contagion starts happening within a community tracing and quarantine is doomed.
I saw both sides in Singapore. In the early days every case was all over the internet to see. "Case no. 14 works in this building, attended meetings on XX January with 12 people, had meetings in this other building, blah blah". You can therefore check whether you should go for screening so that every person suspected of being exposed can be accounted for. And if you are quarantined, you must install an app in your phone so that they can randomly call you and verify your location. All the control was working for a while... until, as their govt. official said, the UK and Switzerland fukced it up.
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  #3734  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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The argument preceding was:

"The fact of the matter is, as soon as contagion starts happening within a community tracing and quarantine is doomed."
Which is when social distancing becomes vital. Socila distancing assumes everyone is infected and as such you shouldn't have physical contact unless it absolutely can't be avoided. Maybe I should have said "quarantine of individual patients", as in a patient is diagnosed and isolated and all people who have come in contact with said patient are also isolated. This approach is absolutely impossible when numbers explode, which happens with community contagion.
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  #3735  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:34
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Re: Coronavirus

I had a doctor's appointment this morning. The waiting room was laid out so that no-one could sit next anyone else. Staff kept their distance.

On the bus and tram, the doors were opened by the driver - no need to press the button.

People sat well apart from one another.

When walking back home, it was noticeable that people avoided coming too near to each other.

In the queue at the checkout in the supermarket, people kept their distance.

Seems to me that people are, pretty much, doing what they're told.
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  #3736  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:40
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Re: Coronavirus

Please forgive me if this is a stupid question... But I assume that, with the lockdown in place now, kids should no longer be playing outside with a friend?
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  #3737  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please forgive me if this is a stupid question... But I assume that, with the lockdown in place now, kids should no longer be playing outside with a friend?
I called our KiTa today and they said it's business as normal (has a total 60 kids, maybe average of ~30 most days) so I don't see why kids couldn't/shouldn't play outside in small groups.
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  #3738  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Goddamit, so there might not be long lasting immunity and my idea is a dud. Vaccine is definitely the best way to go.
If catching the disease does not give you immunity then why would a vaccine?
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  #3739  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:47
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Re: Coronavirus

As a follow up. my Mom passed peacefully last Saturday afternoon surrounded by many of my siblings and several grandchildren.

I am so glad I decided not to fly back to the US as that decision could have compromised several family members. I was lucky to be able to FaceTime with my Mom a few hours before she passed. She lived an amazing life and looked very peaceful. Not easy to be so far removed when one's Mom passes, but my family have been great about calling me and including me regarding decisions about her funeral even though I will not be there.

The timing could not be worse but, to quote my Mom, "It is what it is"...

Just hope the government measures will contain this virus sooner than later.
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  #3740  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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As a follow up. my Mom passed peacefully last Saturday afternoon surrounded by many of my siblings and several grandchildren.

I am so glad I decided not to fly back to the US as that decision could have compromised several family members. I was lucky to be able to FaceTime with my Mom a few hours before she passed. She lived an amazing life and looked very peaceful. Not easy to be so far removed when one's Mom passes, but my family have been great about calling me and including me regarding decisions about her funeral even though I will not be there.

The timing could not be worse but, to quote my Mom, "It is what it is"...

Just hope the government measures will contain this virus sooner than later.
I‘m so sorry for your loss, I hope her memory will give you comfort.

And in fact, it is the memories of her life and your cumulative experience which really matter. I saw my father for the last time two days before he died. We made the difficult decision to return to our home because my husband was due to fly to Switzerland to start work (and we;d already changed his flight). And i missed his funeral too. Sometimes you can‘t do everything.

Sounds like you‘ll be at peace with this in time. Take care....
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