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  #4621  
Old 21.03.2020, 23:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Time to exercise tolerance and patience. An otherwise very well-behaved little child nearby is having a tantrum, screaming. I guess that, even though he is too small to understand what's going on, the tension is too much. Very responsible parents, caring to towards the children, respectful towards the neighbours, and probably, right now, frazzled.
It might be interesting to share what neighbours are doing to pass the time while staying at home.
One of mine is using the time to practice his Alpine Horn @#@##
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  #4622  
Old 21.03.2020, 23:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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" The scientists found that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours...The results provide key information about the stability of SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19 disease, and suggests that people may acquire the virus through the air..."

source: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...hours-surfaces

"Humans can produce respiratory aerosols (droplets) by several means, including breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, and even singing."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
The virus is to heavy to actually float (if it could it be airborne, which it absolutely isn't), so the droplets fall down to the floor or other surfaces, when breathing normally you'd have to be really close to somebody to catch it before it drops, with talking we already push out air some harder and sneezing/coughing can launch it some meters.

So yeah there never has been doubt that we could get ill by transport through the air.
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  #4623  
Old 21.03.2020, 23:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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How are nurses, doctors, police offcers, employees of pharmacies, grocery stores etc etc supposed to get to work?
Looking at the traffic in the morning, maybe 5%-10% of that is from those professions and most just normal office workers who either by own will or forced by their employers are normal office staff. This will not change unless forced.

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Everyone masks and gloves outside, dude we don't even have enough for the hospitals.

Maybe you want to inform yourself a bit more before you make another post, it just reads like a bunch of uninformed highly irritating rambling.
There isnt enough ffp3 masks true, but there is definitely enough surgical masks (one can tape any piece of fabric in front of their mouth and nose) which also helps not to spread the virus to others.
Also most basic latex gloves are not in any kind of shortage while more eco friendly option is of course to use leather gloves which at least most of people own already.

Therefore, dude, please.

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I've been thinking about this for months. Here's what I thought of, I don't have an answer tho:

Even if there are enough masks, for first-timers it's not a very encouraging thing to do. I also hated it during SARS, masks are not pretty, also not comfortable to breath in, good enough reason for most people to avoid.
Honestly my best guess is that since we were lied before that masks dont help, and there is still something I would call western arrogance (being European myself), we just keep denying the obvious instead of admitting of being wrong. Every few days someone is asking why cant we handle this like in Korea and answer is always same: it would not be possible in here but I have not heard a single sensible argument why its not possible.
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  #4624  
Old 21.03.2020, 23:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why are not the countries that have managed to put the infections down a good example? No need to do much thinking. And if you see on their reports people, when out, should be wearing a mask to keep others and protect themselves.
Don't ask me, I'm pro-mask, just look at my posts. I try my best to inform, I send sewing patterns to my friends and family here. Mostly ignored.
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  #4625  
Old 21.03.2020, 23:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Unless they release more numbers in the next hour the daily count seems to be 1.132 new cases bringing the total to 6.747 and 24 more deaths making a total of 80

They now report 141 in serious/critical condition, but given that they have not released such numbers for some time and the low number this can't be the whole story imho, perhaps they update this better over the next days.
Well.. they did release some new numbers in the last minutes of the day.

They now show 131 as recovered which stood at 15 for days, and new cases for today is 1248 instead of 1132, so new total is 6863
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  #4626  
Old 22.03.2020, 01:12
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Re: Coronavirus

Let NO ONE dismiss this as no more than a variant of the Flu...

If you have ANY doubt, read this now:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rticle-8138581
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  #4627  
Old 22.03.2020, 01:38
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Re: Coronavirus

Who knows, something like this could be coming in the post for households in the UK during the coming weeks.

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  #4628  
Old 22.03.2020, 01:52
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Re: Coronavirus

Mom returned home from her holiday on Fuerteventura On Saturday. Only 16 planes landed in Stuttgart today. Incredible.

So, I hope that at least the airport in Germany wasn't too crowded. And because most guests had already left (they will be closing the hotel she stayed in on Tuesday, she said), I really hope it wasn't too crowded there, either.

I could probably still visit them and most likely return, too (once my on-call shift ends on Monday).

Because somebody needs to do the shopping for them.

But I could also be already asymptomatically carrying it and killing them in the process.

That is really, really f'ed up.
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  #4629  
Old 22.03.2020, 01:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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There isnt enough ffp3 masks true, but there is definitely enough surgical masks .... Also most basic latex gloves are not in any kind of shortage ..
Well, that's not what my nursing friend said. She said that in their organisation, providing home-nursing (Spitex), they are being rationed, and they're discussing when to clean and re-use.

She said that she knows of another Spitex which has entirely run out of any kind of gloves (no latex, no nitrile, no vinyl), and have managed to source only very bad quality and poorly made surgical masks. this because, basically, they were too late, so that their order is now in a queue. I'm passing on only what I was told. Perhaps there are other suppliers about whom they don't know.

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(one can tape any piece of fabric in front of their mouth and nose) which also helps not to spread the virus to others.
I do agree with this, though. Even if the homemade fabric strip, (perhaps with a paper filter) is only partially effective, I figure that if that's the best I can access, and it prevents 50% of whatever bugs I breathe out from reaching someone else, well, then, that's not purely safe, but surely better than not bothering to curb that part that I can.
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  #4630  
Old 22.03.2020, 03:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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My neighbour has Italian relatives. Apparently they're still allowed to walk for exercise and walk their dogs. I don't know what region, but one of the northern ones.
My friend in Spain has been nagging the village mayor to allow him to take the dogs out for a walk, but he refused for the time being. Tonight, his wife posted photos of the village streets and house front being hosed down with disinfectant, so he's going to ask the mayor again.

This reminds me of something Curley posted a while ago about the Swiss disinfecting the streets after a bad bout of flu in the '80s or '90s, but then she added TIS so I didn't know how serious she was. Since reading that post though, our older neighbours have moved all their potted plants from the front garden to the rear, which took them a good few hours. Also, a friend in HK and now in Spain, have posted photos that they've taken themselves of the streets being disinfected. Hmmm... makes me wonder. It reminds me of the protocol my family were given when my mum was in hospital isolation with a highly contagious infection, and there's even been an article in The Guardian about how this virus is reminding people of how they had to behave when visiting loved ones on ICU or who were having chemo.
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Ah well, I boycotted that by buying some sweets in case I get the munchies while hanging around at home only, forgetting that I normally only get the munchies when I know there is something sweet in the cupboard.
As for the munchies, I said to OH this evening that it would be bloody wonderful if the cure was cannabis. We'd all be stoned, fat and just damned happy to be alive.
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  #4631  
Old 22.03.2020, 03:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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Let NO ONE dismiss this as no more than a variant of the Flu...

If you have ANY doubt, read this now:
With respect to you, I don't need to read anything the DM churns out. I've seen many doctors saying that this isn't a bad strain of flu. It's a particularly bad strain on pneumonia. Having seen pneumonia and it's after effects at close quarters with 3 family members, that's more than enough of a warning. I strongly suspect many people on this forum will have seen or read the same and experienced the same.
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  #4632  
Old 22.03.2020, 06:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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This reminds me of something Curley posted a while ago about the Swiss disinfecting the streets after a bad bout of flu in the '80s or '90s, but then she added TIS
No. Ridiculous. It's fast forward 30 years and more countries/municipalities can afford to do it. They are disinfecting streets back home, have seen images from my native town too. Buses, playgrounds, every public space where people tend to conglomerate (they're not now, they're very disciplined). And we're only counting 360 infected so far, but the number keeps growing. The gov brings home with charters/military aviation temporary workers from Italy who were left in the street practically, tourists blocked who knows where - quarantine for 14 days everyone. They prepared military hospitals too because it is expected the number will grow, like in Afghanistan. Being a NATO member comes in handy, heh. A EU member, not so much. We're on our own. I am watching both news, from "back home" (Romania) and from here. I know who took it more seriously, perhaps being - let's say "not the rich Switzerland" - makes you be more cautious, more prudent.
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  #4633  
Old 22.03.2020, 07:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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It might be interesting to share what neighbours are doing to pass the time while staying at home.
One of mine is using the time to practice his Alpine Horn @#@##
Your poor ears, oder?

I'm not assassinating my neighbours with my singing....yet.

So far, treadmill is being helpful.

Last edited by greenmount; 22.03.2020 at 07:16.
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  #4634  
Old 22.03.2020, 07:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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Mom returned home from her holiday on Fuerteventura On Saturday. Only 16 planes landed in Stuttgart today. Incredible.

So, I hope that at least the airport in Germany wasn't too crowded. And because most guests had already left (they will be closing the hotel she stayed in on Tuesday, she said), I really hope it wasn't too crowded there, either.

I could probably still visit them and most likely return, too (once my on-call shift ends on Monday).

Because somebody needs to do the shopping for them.

But I could also be already asymptomatically carrying it and killing them in the process.

That is really, really f'ed up.

can no one else help them? surely once you rtn to ZH they will need continued assistance for shopping/ food? if you let us know here , PM me or ask in the other thread I am sure - we have someone who lives closer to your parents who can help? ( i already might know someone in stuttgart)
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  #4635  
Old 22.03.2020, 07:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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I could probably still visit them and most likely return, too (once my on-call shift ends on Monday).

Because somebody needs to do the shopping for them.

.
Yes, we're worried for our parents too. Even if we could leave CH (we can't, my OH is working and is responsible for other 20 people in his team, luckily they work remotely but keeping people's morale high and keeping them motivated and sane is also part of a manager's life), we would be quarantined for 14 days - coming from a red area.....

Are you saying Germany does not do that? Would you be allowed to carry on, no question as where you come from - asked?

I find it very strange how so many countries are still letting anyone pass - no questions asked.
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Old 22.03.2020, 07:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why are not the countries that have managed to put the infections down a good example? No need to do much thinking. And if you check their reports, when people is outside and even at work spaces they continue to wear a mask to keep care of others and protect themselves.
Masks only protect others if you are coughing and sneezing. Outside with distances of 2m, they're just decorative.
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Let NO ONE dismiss this as no more than a variant of the Flu...
It's not even a variant of 'flu. Different virus.
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It's a particularly bad strain on pneumonia.
It causes a particularly bad strain of pneumonia.
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Old 22.03.2020, 07:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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The disease is not like 'flu in that you cannot get infected by breathing in the air that an infected person has breathed out.
Neither does the flu
Found it:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/influenza-might-spread-air-study-finds-n839166

There's no evidence that the coronavirus can do this. Yet.
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  #4638  
Old 22.03.2020, 08:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Having lived in Singapore for 10 plus years, I can tell you Malaysia is no Singapore. In fact, the lawlessness that runs amok in that country is astounding!

Most Singaporeans would find your comparison offensive and they are correct given my experience.

Singapore has taken very strict measures to contain this virus and frankly, one cannot believe whatever Malaysia publishes. Have you read or looked into the 1MBD scandal? Malaysia is not to be trusted regarding their reporting given their governance or lack thereof. What a shame for the people living there in my view...
I lived in Singapore too. There are a 2-3 pages dedicated to malaysia in the straits times everyday and I believed everything I read until I actually went to live in KL. Then I realized those pages were trash like the daily mail. Sure, no country can match Singapore and Singapore is better run, but their arrogance about how much better they are beggars believe, especially when they try to convince themselves with the trash they publish in the Singapore papers.

I know about the 1MDB scandal and so does more than half of malaysia, and it was the main reason the previous govt. were voted out. In fact for a few election rounds the old govt. lost the popular vote and only managed to stay in power due to gerrymandering. The governance can be better because the old gov. is back, but would more than half the country be against the old govt. if the reporting is as you say they are? Can Singaporeans vote out their govt., ever?. So I would say that Malaysians are at least fed less bullshit reporting than the Singaporeans.

Anyway, back on topic - as I went through KLIA in January, the police were looking for a family from China. Apparently they were tourists from China and one of them got sick, went to a small hospital, was suspected to have the virus and was told to wait to be taken to a bigger hospital, but they ran away. Seems they were caught the next day trying to board a flight back to China. This was because the govt. practically stopped every Chinese tourist from getting on a plane even to return home until they were tested (though I’m not sure what they were testing).

By the way, in malaysia you can see in one of the local newspapers website where cases have been detected. So if you live in the same apartment block or work in the same office, you will know....
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Old 22.03.2020, 08:41
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One of the regular members here who lives in Ticino would have liked to see the border with Italy closed a hell of a lot sooner, and I'm inclined to agree with him. Switzerland waited until all the neighbouring countries closed there borders with Switzerland before closing theirs, which is a little peculiar to me. It's not the number of individual diagnosed cases that matters as much as the percentage of the population, and without testing, nobody knows what the situation really is. Without nationwide rolling antibody blood tests, we'll never know the reality. That bothers me. The people are the economy. They're the workforce, businesses and consumers. In all things, they should come first because you've got nothing left without them.

As for the health care system, a few scales I've seen recently rank Switzerland as No.20 in the world, which is all well and good until you see that France in No.1, Italy No.2 (particularly because of Lombardy which has some of the best hospitals in the world yet is past breaking point now), and the UK is No.18. https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...-in-the-world/

We're also finding it a strange ride to follow as we have close family in the UK, Greece and South Africa so have been following the situation in those countries very closely. Greece went into total lockdown on Wednesday because they know their healthcare system wouldn't cope with having a pandemic hotspot. Family talk to each other on a more guarded, emotional level, so I've been talking to a more straight-talking friend in Kifissia, northern Athens who says the lockdown is very strict there (thankfully). Close friends in Spain who live in a tiny (less that 2k population) hill top village have had a problem with travellers coming to village to escape the cities, despite the country being in lockdown for a week now, and their village being in complete lockdown for a while longer as they have a very tight knit and older demographic. They're not even allowed out to walk their dogs. Their village council keeps playing 'Y Viva Espania' over the tannoys.

All that said, it's the UK government's course of action that scares me the most. I'm the kind of person who researches and plans down the last detail as far as I can. I know the problems but am solutions driven. My partner is the type of person who throws money at a problem to make it go away. I fear it's my partner's type of behaviour that I'm seeing in the UK. You can almost see the smoke coming off the Bank of England's printing presses, which will inevitably crash the economy at some point down the line.

What I'm seeing in the UK is the entire population being put at risk because the medical advice has been modified to accommodate for a percentage stubborn gits, the kind who were rammed into every pub they could find open last night before they were closed. Compare that to the relative calm and acceptance in Switzerland. I'd rather be here than the UK, but ideally would prefer to be on one of the many Greek islands that haven't been touched yet. There must be many Danish islands that haven't been affected?




Yeah, I totally understand that you feel safer here than in the UK. I would too, and I wish all the best for your family there. There may be some smaller Danish islands that are unaffected, but pretty much the whole country is hit. It does however give me comfort to see how well they are handling it there, I'm sure my family will be ok. Hope the same can be said for us here in this beautiful country. It's weird because it was here around a week before they had it in Denmark. Yet Denmark acted earlier. Let's hope the swiss hesitation and what I can only in the rearview mirror look at as a kind of complacency, won't have jeopardized too many people. Stay safe

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You cannot get infected by breathing in the air that an infected person has breathed out. You get infected by touching them, touching a surface they've touched, or breathing in the products of their cough or sneeze.


According to some studies, particles of the virus can survive in the air up to 3 hours. I'm looking outside right now, and it's windy out there, and now I'm wondering if that means someone could potentially sneeze or cough in a neighbor town, and the wind could end up putting it in my mouth :S I mean I'm not usually paranoid, but that's not a nice thought, especially because I live in a rather unpopulated area, where it feels safe to go for walks.


Links to the articles mentioning said studies:


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/h...-aerosols.html


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/is...-19-2020-03-12


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/who-...ve-in-air.html

Last edited by 3Wishes; 22.03.2020 at 17:54. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #4640  
Old 22.03.2020, 09:07
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Re: Coronavirus

The head of ICU unit at Nyon tested positive, expects to be back at work in few days

I have had a first hand experience of the virus from somebody I know, he is in Russia, mid 40s, smoker. Was tired, feverish, had the runs for few days, on antiflu medicine all gone now and feeling great. Already switched to local water

Medical team told him if Covid wasn't in the news he'd never be hospitalized.
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