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Old 22.03.2020, 10:27
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Re: Coronavirus

I'm going to have to go to our local Migros tomorrow. I'm tempted to wear a mask (in part because I don't want to catch anything and then give it to my 84-year old mother-in-law). I wonder how many strange looks I would get if I wear one. I still find it a bit strange that I have only ever seen one person wearing one here... Not sure if that's because people don't feel a need to wear them or if they just didn't get any (or couldn't).

How is it in Geneva and Ticino? Are there many people wearing masks when they're in the grocery stores, etc.?
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  #4662  
Old 22.03.2020, 10:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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But what do you do with leather gloves when you return home? Wash them with soap and water? Can you really wash them virus-free?
Disinfectant spray. Just as I did to the change when I had to pay for something in cash. (Won't be doing that again).
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There's stupidity everywhere. Even here.
I wonder if stupid people are more like to get it? Then it would be evolution in action.

For those interested, here's what the French have to fill in before they go out:
https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/attest...nt_derogatoire

Reasons to be outside:
  • Journeys between home and the place of work, when they are essential for the pursuit of activities which cannot be organised in the form of remote office (with proof) or business trips which cannot be postponed ;
  • Travel to make essential purchases in authorised establishments (listed on gouvernement.fr);
  • Travel for health reasons;
  • Travel for imperative family reasons, for assistance to vulnerable persons or childcare;
  • Short trips, close to home, related to the individual physical activity of people, excluding any collective sports practice, and to the needs of pets.
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  #4663  
Old 22.03.2020, 10:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm going to have to go to our local Migros tomorrow. I'm tempted to wear a mask (in part because I don't want to catch anything and then give it to my 84-year old mother-in-law). I wonder how many strange looks I would get if I wear one. I still find it a bit strange that I have only ever seen one person wearing one here... Not sure if that's because people don't feel a need to wear them or if they just didn't get any (or couldn't).

How is it in Geneva and Ticino? Are there many people wearing masks when they're in the grocery stores, etc.?
Better donate your unused masks to a hospital.
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  #4664  
Old 22.03.2020, 10:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm going to have to go to our local Migros tomorrow. I'm tempted to wear a mask (in part because I don't want to catch anything and then give it to my 84-year old mother-in-law). I wonder how many strange looks I would get if I wear one. I still find it a bit strange that I have only ever seen one person wearing one here... Not sure if that's because people don't feel a need to wear them or if they just didn't get any (or couldn't).

How is it in Geneva and Ticino? Are there many people wearing masks when they're in the grocery stores, etc.?
Because wearing one will increase your chances of infection unless you are medical professional, know how to use it and you change your mask every hour
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, that's not what my nursing friend said. She said that in their organisation, providing home-nursing (Spitex), they are being rationed, and they're discussing when to clean and re-use.
My wife's daughter works in a nursing home, and says the same.

My daughter starts there tomorrow (as her normal place of employment has shut down for the time being), so I'll see what she says, though as she will be working as a chef she says that they normally don't use them.

Tom
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  #4666  
Old 22.03.2020, 10:32
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Re: Coronavirus

News from the coal face, as it were. Friend of a friend is a nurse in Madrid.
They say, they are overwhelmed, not enough staff or respirators, corridors full of trolleys with people on them coughing their guts up, but not many getting any treatment.
Beds, once occupied, are only being freed by the person actually dying. Otherwise the occupant is in the bed for days on end.

Not a pretty picture.

CH has more beds per capita than CH, but not by a factor of 15 to 20, which is what is required. Even if they had the beds, they don't have the staff or equipment.
Same goes for ALL countries. No-one keeps that amount of resource free for a once in a generation event like this.

So, best policy as individuals is do what the govts. have been saying, self isolate as much as possible, take resonsibility and look after yourself.
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Better donate your unused masks to a hospital.
Well, I had sewn my own. Not sure they'd be interested in the ones I made, due in part to my shitty sewing skills. However, if they were interested... I'd be more than happy to make some for them.
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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The vast majority have no symptoms at all, your 2/3 relates to people with symptoms, not people with the virus.

Tom
I think you would be tough pressed to find any source saying that the vast majority of people have no symptoms. The best I could find was about 20% based on the cruise ship data, but that was also based on filling some large data holes.

Asymptomatic people can spread the virus but that does not mean that they will remain asymptomatic. It means that for the first 3 days after infection they are spreading the virus, after that point they may become symptomatic.

So when most studies are saying that people have the virus are asymptomatic, it does not mean that they will not show any symptoms. It means that they had no symptoms when they were tested.

Example:
Imagine someone gets something like HIV. Most people only show symptoms after a few weeks/months. If you tested someone a two weeks after they got the disease it would show them as positive but asymptomatic.
Test that person a few months later, and they will more likely be symptomatic and positive.

That is what is going on now with this virus.
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  #4669  
Old 22.03.2020, 10:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm going to have to go to our local Migros tomorrow. I'm tempted to wear a mask (in part because I don't want to catch anything and then give it to my 84-year old mother-in-law). I wonder how many strange looks I would get if I wear one. I still find it a bit strange that I have only ever seen one person wearing one here... Not sure if that's because people don't feel a need to wear them or if they just didn't get any (or couldn't).
Oh, Pancakes, yes, I think you will get strange looks. But Just Do It Anyway. Unfortunately, the notion that masks do nothing good has been repeated far, far too often.

By wearing a mask you'll be achieving the following:
  1. Helping to remind yourself not to touch your face. This will reduce the number of times you might otherwise transfer droplets from a surface onto your nose, mouth or eyes. This reduces your chances of becoming infected.
  2. Protecting others, not you, i.e. protecting them from your breath.
  3. Most likely to a considerably lesser extent, protecting yourself by filtering whatever you breathe in.
  4. Serving as a visual reminder to others to take care.
  5. Keeping more people at bay, whether or not they understand the notion of masks, they're more likely to respect social distancing if they see you wearing a mask.

Points 2 and 3 are debatable, vague and variable, depending upon the quality of the mask, the actual materials of which it is made, and the closeness of the seal it makes over your nose and mouth EDIT: and whether or not the wearer takes good care in putting on and taking off the mask. Please see the insructional linked to by Bowlie, below https://www.englishforum.ch/3161877-post4676.html

But even a partial result, both in and out, is surely better than nothing.

Last edited by doropfiz; 22.03.2020 at 11:21. Reason: adding link to Bowlie's reminder of how to use a mask
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  #4670  
Old 22.03.2020, 10:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm going to have to go to our local Migros tomorrow.

Be the first person in the store, be outside 10 minutes before it opens. Take a spray disinfectant and a cloth, spray the troll handles and touchpoints (I've been doing this for 3 weeks now). Know what you want and scoot round rapido.


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I don't want to catch anything and then give it to my 84-year old mother-in-law

I don't know your personal circumstances, but WTF?
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:45
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Re: Coronavirus

Just read on my son's bank website that CH is upping the testing (sorry can't link to it). Apparently we can now do 7000 a day, which is 5,800 per million. As a comparison Sth Korea can do 6,150 per million and Italy 3,450 per million. This would now put us in one of the highest categories in the world apparently.
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't know your personal circumstances, but WTF?
Thanks for the tips (about going to the store). Not sure what you meant exactly with the "WTF" though. ^^^

Perhaps I should have elaborated that I also don't want to inadvertently spread the virus in case I have it and don't know it.
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:56
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Re: How is Switzerland doing - Covid-19

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The scenes going on in the UK leave me feeling cold:
[LIST][*]Lack of testing for NHS and emergency service staff
There have now been two doctors on the Andrew Marr show on BBC1 saying that:
  • The UK is not following WHO guidelines in terms of recommended procedure or equipment ordered
  • Doctors basically feel abandoned and like 'cannon fodder' due to no testing
  • Medical equipment that is needed has largely not arrived and some that has is not adequate for the job

Extremely worrying, especially with regards to the testing, and this situation is still potentially mild compared to what is coming in the next weeks. If many of the medical staff who are not currently being tested are now spreading it to others and then themselves going to be getting sick after the incubation period then we really may have a crisis on our hands come mid to late April and May.

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Just read on my son's bank website that CH is upping the testing (sorry can't link to it). Apparently we can now do 7000 a day, which is 5,800 per million. As a comparison Sth Korea can do 6,150 per million and Italy 3,450 per million. This would now put us in one of the highest categories in the world apparently.
If true then that is promising.

Last edited by Chuff; 22.03.2020 at 11:15. Reason: Typos
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:57
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Re: Coronavirus

Not a bad way to cover mouth and nose without a medical mask.


https://www.facebook.com/charlene.bo...zNzQ2NDkzNjE2/
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Old 22.03.2020, 11:01
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Masks

If you are going to wear a mask you need to know how to put them on.

See here: https://www.wikihow.com/Put-on-a-Medical-Mask

And remember WASH YOUR HANDS before you touch the mask; DO NOT TOUCH IT while being worn. If necessary adjust it by the edges. After you remove it, dispose of it properly and WASH YOUR HANDS.

Oh, did I mention WASH YOUR HANDS!?

I'm not certain a home-made mask is going to be much good.
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Old 22.03.2020, 11:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why are not the countries that have managed to put the infections down a good example? No need to do much thinking.
Because: they did it combined with hi-tech surveillance and tracing of possible positive cases, they run thousands of tests a day, meaning - they have the labs, staff, machines ready and most of all, they actually have the reactive agent. Which is missing elsewhere. And because they got stocked up (either bought in advance or imported) protective gear (masks, suits, desinfectants, gloves). They did not ask population for permission nor did they wait for population to smarten up. My country went after 100 possibly positive people who could have come in contact per 1 confirmed case (confirned once). Everything is logged down and reported. Does it help? Maybe to flatten the curve, it's happening since the strict measures are in place 3wks already, now cops/army fining people without their face+nose covered. In the long term, we are expecting ventilator shortages, as everyone else. They aren't waiting for studies to prove that yes, we can inhale highly virus filled air and yes, we bring stuff home on the bottom of our shoes. And which strain were those hypothetical studies for.

Efficient preventative measures are popular in places that a) lived this before and/or b) don't have the resources to conquer full blown problem.

So imho, others aren't doing it, because it requires synchronisation of many small steps. And undrertanding/support of the public. Central governance, overiding other decisions fast, which traditionally isn't en vogue in some places.

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Have you noticed that a size 12 - which is a 38 here - is a 40 in France and a 44 in Italy? Wonder what psychology is behind that. And I wonder if the French and the Italian woman are all bulimic, frantically trying to reach a dress-size number which in the rest of the world hardly any adult wears..
Ok, I understand your emotional reaction there. Tbh, teen sizes I wear are so much cheaper. And exercising daily keeps us happy at home. No, French and Italian women are probably as bulimic as elsewhere, but nice of you to worry about them. Both cultures are known to treat meals as a happy festival and social event, not an opportunity to save themselves through over-eating? Just a guess, not sure what does it. I can't shop in D, CH, Austria nor any northern countries, chick clothes are too large.

If you want to speed your quest to get from 12 to 10 (congrats, btw, love your plan), aside of nixing candy/pop/cookies/chips/booze, happy to share our daily routine: jumping jacks, high knees, burpies, push ups, crunches, squats, push ups, crunches, squats, jumping jacks, wall sit, push up, high knees. How many reps is up to your level of fitness/will power/health demands, you step up the reps as you go, then start doing 2 of these circuits, 3...it is really efficient.


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Why arent everyone requested to wear a mask and gloves in public at least and we keep being such an arrogant/self-righteous f###s instead of taking head out of our asses...
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How is it in Geneva and Ticino? Are there many people wearing masks when they're in the grocery stores, etc.?
No. We wear them because we have had a mysterious (and 1st, too..) bout of stuffy headcold, with blocked ears and seriously itchy eyes, came out as allergies. People were bugged by our masks, throwing "some hysterical paranoid people amongst us" comments at us in Migros, it is bewildering. People speaking foreign languages here seemed to wear masks more. I think the local edu campaign isn't hitting home yet here.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 22.03.2020 at 13:53.
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  #4677  
Old 22.03.2020, 11:12
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Re: Masks

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If you are going to wear a mask you need to know how to put them on.

See here: https://www.wikihow.com/Put-on-a-Medical-Mask

And remember WASH YOUR HANDS before you touch the mask; DO NOT TOUCH IT while being worn. If necessary adjust it by the edges. After you remove it, dispose of it properly and WASH YOUR HANDS.

Oh, did I mention WASH YOUR HANDS!?

I'm not certain a home-made mask is going to be much good.
If I was next to someone or in the same room as someone who had the virus and didn't know it, I'd rather they were wearing a mask -- any kind of mask -- than none.

Also, some doctors are now making their own due to shortages.

"Faced with a shortage of face masks, some U.S. doctors make their own"


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-masks/faced-with-a-shortage-of-face-masks-some-u-s-doctors-make-their-own-idUSKBN2170AV

"Calling All People Who Sew and Make: You Can Help Make Masks for 2020 Healthcare Worker PPE Shortage"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tjmccue.../#7e4c5ab84e41
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Old 22.03.2020, 11:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not a bad way to cover mouth and nose without a medical mask.


https://www.facebook.com/charlene.bo...zNzQ2NDkzNjE2/
Was that made with a diaper? I've read that using diapers and menstrual pads for masks is counter-productive. Precisely because they are built to be relatively impermeable, they not only do not actually filter the air in any way, but also force the air out around the sides.
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Old 22.03.2020, 11:24
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Re: Masks

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If I was next to someone or in the same room as someone who had the virus and didn't know it, I'd rather they were wearing a mask -- any kind of mask -- than none.
I think that would give you a false feeling of security. You shouldn't be next to someone or in the same room as someone, regardless.
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Old 22.03.2020, 11:27
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Re: Coronavirus

Hi all, I don’t know if this link was already posted, this is a nice overview in numbers

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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