Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #5261  
Old 26.03.2020, 17:34
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,308
Groaned at 182 Times in 150 Posts
Thanked 12,677 Times in 6,640 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Can some of the joggers please realise that running up behind someone, about a millimetre away from them whilst overtaking them on a shared footpath is the polar opposite of social distancing!? I went for a walk today by myself and whilst trying to keep my distance from joggers, I found them to be blowing their lungs all over the place and coming too close to, not just me but other people too!
That's the way they drive to work every day. Now they have to spend their time jogging.
You won't be able to change it - it's been tried on the roads. You could just stop dead and let them run into you. But as with the drivers: You don't want to put up with the damage.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #5262  
Old 26.03.2020, 17:40
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,919
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
That's the way they drive to work every day. Now they have to spend their time jogging.
You won't be able to change it - it's been tried on the roads. You could just stop dead and let them run into you. But as with the drivers: You don't want to put up with the damage.
Tripping them up really annoys them!
Reply With Quote
  #5263  
Old 26.03.2020, 17:46
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 17 Posts
Aliante has earned some respectAliante has earned some respect
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Stanford Epidemology Professor Ioannidis has made a study (albeit from only 700 samples) and quantified the age related deaths of the corona virus in the region between 0.025% and 0.625% which numbers are more less the same as a simple flu

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/...reliable-data/

So you aren't really any more at risk today from Corona than last year from the Flu

How do you explain that this crematorium is receiving 2x coffins than its full capacity allows to process, because of this it has reached a 10 days backlog?
https://www.liberta.it/news/cronaca/...-sono-gia-100/


FYI: unfortunately I had to be there there approx 2 months ago and there was no backlog at all
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Aliante for this useful post:
  #5264  
Old 26.03.2020, 17:55
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,049
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,365 Times in 639 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Oh no, flu is much more deadly than corona.

According to WHO, up to 650,000 people die from flu each year!

Corona so far around 22,000

But you don't see those 650k in breaking news

Putin is sending those trucks as a PR stunt, nothing else
Kinda sad help is sent to Italy where it's not needed instead of Syria where it's needed. I'd guess the LOLs make it worth.
Reply With Quote
  #5265  
Old 26.03.2020, 18:04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 330
Groaned at 14 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 980 Times in 365 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Stanford Epidemology Professor Ioannidis has made a study (albeit from only 700 samples) and quantified the age related deaths of the corona virus in the region between 0.025% and 0.625% which numbers are more less the same as a simple flu

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/...reliable-data/

So you aren't really any more at risk today from Corona than last year from the Flu
I read a few days ago. His sample was based on the cruise ship, wasn‘t it? So an isolated sample, and on average an older population. He‘s a fairly well respected scientist who is very data focused - does a lot of work on reproducible results.

What seems to be different with covid-19 is that the infection rate is higher. And a large number of people seem to be asymptomatic. There are valid questions about ioannidis‘ assumptions - read through the comments. But he is correct in that we don‘t have a lot of data. I think most people in medicine and science are doing the best they can with what they have and integrating new knowledge. Politicians - that varies.

Front line health workers disagree with ioannidis strongly. However, that could be a base rate problem - given the way we Test and isolate, you see only the most serious cases in facilities. The death rates and infection rates are all crazy because the bases are all over the place.

What‘s really important is that this is highly infectious. We need to protect front line health care workers and people most at risk.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #5266  
Old 26.03.2020, 18:12
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zuerich
Posts: 26
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 14 Times in 4 Posts
pam1 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Coronavirus

Up to date statistics from Switzerland :
https://www.corona-data.ch/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank pam1 for this useful post:
  #5267  
Old 26.03.2020, 18:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 3,054
Groaned at 147 Times in 107 Posts
Thanked 3,688 Times in 1,824 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Can some of the joggers please realise that running up behind someone, about a millimetre away from them whilst overtaking them on a shared footpath is the polar opposite of social distancing!? I went for a walk today by myself and whilst trying to keep my distance from joggers, I found them to be blowing their lungs all over the place and coming too close to, not just me but other people too!
Get sone Nordic walking poles and put them out horizontally whenever such an covidiot approaches.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #5268  
Old 26.03.2020, 18:34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 330
Groaned at 14 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 980 Times in 365 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
That's not the empirical evidence of my colleagues working in the ICU. Young intubated patients currently have an estimated mortality rate of 60-80% right now in Swiss ICUs. So sure it's empirical, we won't have actual numbers for quite a while. But COVID is not comparable to the flu.


The flu has 0.1% mortality rate. By conservative estimates COVID's mortality rate is 30 times higher at about 3%.
That‘s consistent with the Wuhan ICU experience for all ages. I posted the link somewhere....
Here‘s the link again
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle...=2324713&faf=1

The mortality rate is much more difficult because they‘ve not yet captured the base of all infected patients. If a number of people never develop symptoms, it will require a representative population sample and hopefully those folks will at least have antibodies.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #5269  
Old 26.03.2020, 20:05
VFR on top's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Used to be Basel.
Posts: 1,104
Groaned at 32 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,423 Times in 907 Posts
VFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
covidiot
Love it!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank VFR on top for this useful post:
  #5270  
Old 26.03.2020, 20:39
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,363
Groaned at 389 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,364 Times in 8,877 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
They probably thought the same about you. What gives YOU the right to be out, and not them ?!?
I believe it was meant as a joke.

To paraphrase Star Trek " It is humour Jim but not humour as we know it"
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #5271  
Old 26.03.2020, 20:43
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,677
Groaned at 141 Times in 97 Posts
Thanked 4,455 Times in 1,774 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
They probably thought the same about you. What gives YOU the right to be out, and not them ?!?
Maybe he has a dog.
Reply With Quote
  #5272  
Old 26.03.2020, 20:43
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,363
Groaned at 389 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,364 Times in 8,877 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
These people are wandering around aimlessly. I go directly to the same place in the forest ALONE.
S#it. And go back home.
ftfy

I will go and get my coat now
Reply With Quote
  #5273  
Old 26.03.2020, 20:52
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,363
Groaned at 389 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,364 Times in 8,877 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This. When we look back, we will never have accurate numbers to review. Every country has its own way of testing, treating, and counting illnesses, recoveries, and deaths. Several have changed these procedures along the way.

As one of the articles linked above stated, it's not crystal clear how many patients died with Covid19 vs from Covid19. That's going to be true in the future, not just today.
It is not an easy analysis.

Suppose some poor cancer sufferer got shot in the head; would you define that as death by shooting or death by pre-existing condition. Where exactly do you draw the line?
Reply With Quote
  #5274  
Old 26.03.2020, 20:57
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,363
Groaned at 389 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,364 Times in 8,877 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Stanford Epidemology Professor Ioannidis has made a study (albeit from only 700 samples) and quantified the age related deaths of the corona virus in the region between 0.025% and 0.625% which numbers are more less the same as a simple flu

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/...reliable-data/

So you aren't really any more at risk today from Corona than last year from the Flu
There are sadly currently over 23,000 deaths so this study raises questions like how random was the selection, which countries were involved, how good was the base data, is the sample size statistically significant.
Reply With Quote
  #5275  
Old 26.03.2020, 20:58
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,500
Groaned at 76 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 17,180 Times in 7,758 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It is not an easy analysis.

Suppose some poor cancer sufferer got shot in the head; would you define that as death by shooting or death by pre-existing condition. Where exactly do you draw the line?
I think it's more subtle than that, for example those who die of pneumonia. Were they already sick and happened to catch CV that made it worse, or did it start with CV and deteriorate into pneumonia causing death. Early on in China they didn't know how to classify it other than a pneumonia-like disease, and apparently many people died at home that were never tested.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #5276  
Old 26.03.2020, 21:07
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,363
Groaned at 389 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,364 Times in 8,877 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I think it's more subtle than that, for example those who die of pneumonia. Were they already sick and happened to catch CV that made it worse, or did it start with CV and deteriorate into pneumonia causing death. Early on in China they didn't know how to classify it other than a pneumonia-like disease, and apparently many people died at home that were never tested.
As an example, I have a pre-existing condition with pneumonia which is being treated and the medical outlook is currently OK or the expectation is I will only survive a month or two. Then I catch COV-19 and die within some weeks, so, as I posted, where do we draw the line.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #5277  
Old 26.03.2020, 21:13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Sion
Posts: 48
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 66 Times in 30 Posts
mobk has earned some respectmobk has earned some respect
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Stanford Epidemology Professor Ioannidis has made a study (albeit from only 700 samples) and quantified the age related deaths of the corona virus in the region between 0.025% and 0.625% which numbers are more less the same as a simple flu

So you aren't really any more at risk today from Corona than last year from the Flu
This professor’s most cited work is a well known paper entitled “Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

His own work would suggest caution in interpreting a study with tiny numbers that bucks the consensus.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank mobk for this useful post:
  #5278  
Old 26.03.2020, 21:15
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,919
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

https://www.20min.ch/panorama/news/s...ummer-27422620
Reply With Quote
  #5279  
Old 26.03.2020, 21:18
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 206
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 168 Times in 86 Posts
jimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I close my eyes. That helps but its dangerous.I'm even worried about saying Gruezi in case I should spit out saliva trying to say it correctly!
At the checkout when asked if I need the receipt I just shake my head silently
Reply With Quote
  #5280  
Old 26.03.2020, 21:26
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,500
Groaned at 76 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 17,180 Times in 7,758 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
As an example, I have a pre-existing condition with pneumonia which is being treated and the medical outlook is currently OK or the expectation is I will only survive a month or two. Then I catch COV-19 and die within some weeks, so, as I posted, where do we draw the line.
I don't know. At this point I think it's hard to tell.

I guess using your example the line could be:
This person was only expected to survive a month or two anyway, therefore the primary cause of death would be the preexisting condition and Covid-19 would be listed secondary.

vs

This person is otherwise in decent health (i.e. not in imminent danger of death) but contracted Covid-19 and went rapidly downhill and died. I'd credit that one to the virus.

but what do I know, I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on TV and I'm not a statistician either.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 22 (0 members and 22 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0