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  #5501  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just watching the BBC news with the new "Nightingale Hospital" ... AKA the old Excel conference centre in London. They are talking about at least 500 ICU beds with a possibility to scale up to 4000. And there's talk of creating the same set up in a number of other UK cities too.
The UK are responding well to this threat, there is no doubting that.
Not sure I fancy my chances in an areana over my own home tbh. I did not like the pictures of similar 'hosptals' set up elsewhere.
Florence Nightingale revoltionised military hospitals in the Crimean War, which could be compared to the level of care you would get in the Excel areana when it exceeds capacity.
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  #5502  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Building a so called 'hospital' is all very nice- but how on earth will the UK staff it. Already a huge shortage or doctors and nurses for exisiting hospital. Are they going to use the 'volunteers' ?
Maybe it's better to just do sweet FA and let the elderly die at home then?
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  #5503  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:31
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Re: Coronavirus

If I had a choice to die at home or in a 2000 people ward without my OH- I would certainly prefer to die at home- for sure. Otherwise, just call it a morgue, and be done with it.
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  #5504  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Building a so called 'hospital' is all very nice- but how on earth will the UK staff it. Already a huge shortage or doctors and nurses for exisiting hospital. Are they going to use the 'volunteers' ?
Like this

"Letters are being sent to more than 65,000 retired doctors and nurses in England and Wales asking them to return to the NHS to help tackle the coronavirus outbreak."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51969104
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  #5505  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:37
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Re: Coronavirus

103-year-old woman becomes oldest person to beat corona virus

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9393991.html
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  #5506  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:40
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Re: Coronavirus

CORONAVIRUS-inflicted economic effects on the UK economy could see more lives lost than the deadly virus will claim itself, warned Professor of Risk Management at Bristol University Philip Thomas.

Redacted version: decrease in GDP for a prolonged period of time leads to a reduced life expectency for the younger generation.
Discussed here also.
Yes, I'm a monster for bringing it up, but at some point we need to discuss how much we are willing to spend to save a lot of old people in the final chapter of their lives, and a few (% speaking) younger people, mostly well into their 60's and above anyhow.
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  #5507  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Like this

"Letters are being sent to more than 65,000 retired doctors and nurses in England and Wales asking them to return to the NHS to help tackle the coronavirus outbreak."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51969104
I reaaaally fear for them.
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  #5508  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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CORONAVIRUS-inflicted economic effects on the UK economy could see more lives lost than the deadly virus will claim itself, warned Professor of Risk Management at Bristol University Philip Thomas.

Redacted version: decrease in GDP for a prolonged period of time leads to a reduced life expectency for the younger generation.
Discussed here also.
Yes, I'm a monster for bringing it up, but at some point we need to discuss how much we are willing to spend to save a lot of old people in the final chapter of their lives, and a few (% speaking) younger people, mostly well into their 60's and above anyhow.
It's the circle of life, nothing more

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick: ‘Lots of Grandparents’ Willing to Die to Save Economy for Grandchildren

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...e-economy.html
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  #5509  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's the circle of life, nothing more

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick: ‘Lots of Grandparents’ Willing to Die to Save Economy for Grandchildren

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...e-economy.html
Troll doesn't read what troll posts

"Putting aside the general message that death would be a better option than a loss on a quarterly statement, there are a couple points to address: New data shows that up to a fifth of those infected that range in age from 20 to 44 require hospitalization, deflating Patrick’s claim that only senior Americans face significant risks by reopening the economy. And as of 2018, 2.6 million children were being raised directly by their grandparents — caretakers who may not agree with Patrick’s suggestion of mass geriatric sacrifice."
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  #5510  
Old 28.03.2020, 18:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't see any talk of this kind of hospital expansion in Switzerland. Who of you wise EFers knows why that may be?
Could it be have already plenty of beds in our hospitals and the NHS just didn't have the same set-up? Or there's a military operation ongoing which I missed, which is creating a bunch of additional field hospitals up a mountain somewhere?
There is one military hospital, in Einsiedeln SZ. As I understandnd it, it is being readied to help in this crisis. Apparently the other military hospitals were done away with some years ago.

https://www.kog-sz.ch/143-gv-der-off...ft-einsiedeln/

Don't know of any other plans... but I would hope some kind of coordination, at least of existing facilities if not further expansion, is going on.

ETA:

A bit more here, from SRF:
https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/waru...demie-vorsorge
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  #5511  
Old 28.03.2020, 19:07
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Re: Coronavirus

I had a procedure done at the clinique de Genolier on Friday. It was like a tomb, most rooms were vacant. One of the nurses said that admissions from overseas had fallen to nothing. And they also had been asked to be ready to accept overflow from the cantonal hospitals when (not if) necessary.

I’m glad they are prepared ...
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  #5512  
Old 28.03.2020, 19:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Like this

"Letters are being sent to more than 65,000 retired doctors and nurses in England and Wales asking them to return to the NHS to help tackle the coronavirus outbreak."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51969104
And final year Uni students are being fast tracked into the work place.

"More than 18,700 student nurses and 5,500 final year medics will also join the NHS workforce, he said." (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52018477)
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  #5513  
Old 28.03.2020, 19:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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I had a procedure done at the clinique de Genolier on Friday. It was like a tomb, most rooms were vacant. One of the nurses said that admissions from overseas had fallen to nothing. And they also had been asked to be ready to accept overflow from the cantonal hospitals when (not if) necessary.

I’m glad they are prepared ...
How many beds?
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  #5514  
Old 28.03.2020, 19:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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I had a procedure done at the clinique de Genolier on Friday. It was like a tomb, most rooms were vacant. One of the nurses said that admissions from overseas had fallen to nothing. And they also had been asked to be ready to accept overflow from the cantonal hospitals when (not if) necessary.

I’m glad they are prepared ...
So...no young people intubated yet?
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  #5515  
Old 28.03.2020, 19:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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Where was that? Which shopping centre was it in Zürich?
Volketswil, ZH
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  #5516  
Old 28.03.2020, 19:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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How many beds?
120, but they probably could triple that. They were no expecting C-19 patients but to accept overflow from ‘normal’ patients. Allowing the Cantonal hospitals in Nyon and Rolle to focus on C-19 patients.
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  #5517  
Old 28.03.2020, 19:20
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Re: Coronavirus

Latest tests show that the corona virus can indeed stay airborne four hours and spread among people that way. That will further prove that most people are already infected as such transmission is impossible to stop, lock down or not, especially that the transmission has been going on at least from January


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Our results indicate that aerosol and fomite transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is plausible, since the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for hours and on surfaces up to days
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJ...JYKXk9JSD3I80U
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  #5518  
Old 28.03.2020, 19:48
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Re: Coronavirus

We have seen lots of statistics around, but we never know how complete the data is. Some countries are not testing mild cases, so we know that we are not seeing the complete picture. And we also do not know if the number of deaths reported includes all cases or only those that happened in a hospital (no test, no statistics).

I think this study helps put some figures in perspective. It is from a Spanish official centre that traces mortality, each country has a similar one and there is a European aggregate one (euromomo.eu). The latest report form 26. March is quite interesting (sorry, it's in Spanish). There you can see the number of deceases (total, not COVID) compared to the prediction from a model based on data from the last 20 years or so. In the last days of March the curve of total deceases is scary, there is a clear excess above the expectation. And the next pages, where data for some individual regions is shown are even more obvious.

However, the number of deaths due to COVID in Spain reported by different sources is only above 200/day since the 20th of March or so, with much higher figures now, while for the report above one can conclude by comparison with the reports from previous days that the data of the last three days or so is often incomplete. So the cruves will probably look different (worse) in some days. But note that the scale does not show zero, so even 600 deaths/day would "just" be around 50% more than usual.

One interesting thing is that at national level, and for some of the regions as well, the curve is well below the estimate for most of February, possibly due to a mild winter. The European curves from euromomo also show clearly lower mortality over the last two winters. So I wonder if we may have a kind of "perfect storm" situation, with a pandemia at the same time that there is a number of people with possibly a precarious health that "should" have normaly died over the past years/months.

I am not trying to negate the effect of COVID-19, and I think it is still too early to see its effects, but to me this is the kind of data we need to look at.
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  #5519  
Old 28.03.2020, 20:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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CORONAVIRUS-inflicted economic effects on the UK economy could see more lives lost than the deadly virus will claim itself, warned Professor of Risk Management at Bristol University Philip Thomas.

Redacted version: decrease in GDP for a prolonged period of time leads to a reduced life expectency for the younger generation.
Discussed here also.
Yes, I'm a monster for bringing it up, but at some point we need to discuss how much we are willing to spend to save a lot of old people in the final chapter of their lives, and a few (% speaking) younger people, mostly well into their 60's and above anyhow.
You will not be granted any influence on such spending decisions.
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  #5520  
Old 28.03.2020, 20:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Latest tests show that the corona virus can indeed stay airborne four hours and spread among people that way. That will further prove that most people are already infected as such transmission is impossible to stop, lock down or not, especially that the transmission has been going on at least from January

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJ...JYKXk9JSD3I80U
Not peer-reviewed
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